mRNA vaccine question.

[JonC]

That desperate people gravitate to desperate measures during times of desperation?
Not at all.

Perhaps. Fear does make people act desperately. It just amazes me that somebody would dismiss studies, science, and 1 1/2 years of what has been shown to be an effective measure to gravitate to unstudied (and often deadly) measures. At least with a vaccine you know the risks.

But you are right. It is out of fear. The politicians have been fearmongering since covid hit.

 

[Andre]

You are the one representing himself as a qualified medical expert by calling your brothers false.

Shameless falsehood.

I have never represented myself as a medical expert.

Why are you posting things that you surely must know are falsehoods?

 

[Andre]

Not to forget foolish and evil

If the shoe fits........

 

[SGO]

Aren't you the one that uses the terms,

"If the shoe fits..." post #63

"Shameless falsehoods" post #62

"It is a clear case of someone who has painted themselves into a corner and is dancing." post #48

"How selfless of you." post #40

"....and your medical degree is from.....?????" post #30

"It is a fact that the more people who are unvaccinated, the greater the risk to those of us who are vaccinated." post #28

"Like others here, you imply that there is a real debate among the experts about this." post #17


Building up by tearing down.

Insulting the brethren.

God bless you.

 

[Andre]

Building up by tearing down.

Insulting the brethren.

God bless you.

If the bretheren would dial back on the misinformation, and the appeals to loony-turnes sources, then I will dial back on what I see as perfectly appropriate rebukes.

It certainly seems to me that you think posters should be able to post falsehoods and cite highly disreputable sources with impunity?

Simple question: is it acceptable for Christians to lie?

 

[SGO]

If the bretheren would dial back on the misinformation, and the appeals to loony-turnes sources, then I will dial back on what I see as perfectly appropriate rebukes.

There you go again.

 

[Bible Scanned]

What?!

It is a fact that the more people who are unvaccinated, the greater the risk to those of us who are vaccinated.

How concerned are you about the vaccinated & non-vaccinated who are going to a lost eternity when they die because they do not know Christ?

Newsflash: Everyone dies. If not of this, then of that.

 

[Bible Scanned]

Many of us do mind that you don't, although you will do what you want to do.

When people refuse the vaccine they endanger others in a number of ways - these are not opinions, these are established facts:

1. They increase the covid risk for the vaccinated - vaccinated people can still get covid.
2. They increase the risk of the development of vaccine-resistant variants.
3 They needlessly divert medical resources away from others who need them.

So, yes, it is very much my business what you decide to do.

You can go find yourself an island to live on if you want to, where you can practice not minding your own businiss

You mean your "liberty" to place others at risk and incur needless expense that we will all have to bear?

How selfless of you.

Commies? Get real.

You'd think more people are dying of Covid-19 than are dying and have been dying every day around the world in car accidents, of heart attacks, cancer, strokes caused by other natural causes, pneumonia etc etc. Covid-19 is just a new disease (like AIDS was in the 1980's - and that killed even more).

IMO your and the world's response to this Covid-19 is unhinged - and until those "vaccines" are proved safe for everyone, you have no right to not mind your own business telling people who won't take the jab it's your business if they don't. Even beyond the proof that a vaccine is 100% safe for all, you have no right.

NEWSFLASH: God does not divide the world between the vaxxed and the non-vaxxed. He divides the world between the saved and the lost - because everyone is going to die, without exception.

If only all Christians were as concerned about getting the lost saved as you are about getting (forcing) everyone to be vaxxed, the world will look very different.

You scientists do not own my body. REPEAT: Neither you scientists nor anyone else owns my body. God does.

 

[Andre]

How concerned are you about the vaccinated & non-vaccinated who are going to a lost eternity when they die because they do not know Christ?

How is this remotely relevant?

You are in a difficult position - you are resisting the vaccine even though the overwhelming weight of evidence is clear: the benefits of the vaccine outweigh the risks.

So what do you do? You pontificate about the fate of the unredeemed, a clear diversion from the topic at hand.

 

[Andre]

You can go find yourself an island to live on if you want to, where you can practice not minding your own businiss.

You know it's interesting - in one post you sermonize about my concern for the unredeemed and, in the next, you appear to have carved the directive to care for others out of your Bible.

Other Christians have made this very same argument: my right to not take the vaccine trumps your right to live free needless threat to health and well-being.

Unvaccinated people pose both a direct and indirect health threat to the rest of us: direct, since the vaccinated can still be infected by the unvaccinated who carry a needlessly increased risk of being infected. Indirect, since the risk of development of vaccine-evading variants increases with the number of unvaccinated people.

Also, because the unvaccinated are much more likely to be hospitalized, they needlessly divert medical resources away from other people who need them.

And all justified by an appeal to your rights.

This is your model of Christian behavior?

A little consistency, please.

 

[Andre]

You scientists do not own my body. REPEAT: Neither you scientists nor anyone else owns my body. God does.

Me, me, me.

 

[Bible Scanned]

Me, me, me.

I won't issue another retort, and I don't want you going living on an island, but that finger is pointing at you too, but in your case the "me, me, me" is the scientific and medical world, the governments and the vaxxed population who support them, who think this science and this "vaccine", which is undergoing a trial period and using the whole world as guinea pigs, who are all determined to sweep under the rug any and all adverse reactions and even deaths which have occurred as a direct result of the "vaccine" (such as the child mentioned by JonC who died of the convulsions he developed after getting the "vaccine", and the people I know about), all in the interests of "me, "me, "me", and trying very hard to bully those who don't yet trust this science into doing as "me, me, me" say we must do for the sake of the "me, me me's".

 

[Dave G]

Perhaps. Fear does make people act desperately.

Which brings me to my next point...
What is it that Christians ( especially some of the one's I'm seeing post in these threads ) are afraid of in all of this?

That they will die of CoVID if they do not get vaccinated?
To me that shouldn't even be a consideration, given Who they have as their Saviour and what He's promised to do for them.

It just amazes me that somebody would dismiss studies, science, and 1 1/2 years of what has been shown to be an effective measure to gravitate to unstudied (and often deadly) measures.

Jon,

I don't deny that these new vaccines have been effective.
I'm sure that they have.

I'm also equally sure that we, as a race, are not done seeing all the people who will die or have debilitatiing side effects from a technology that really should not have been rushed into production on something of this scale.
Yes, I'm sure they had plenty of volunteers to conduct the trials with.
No, I'm sure they did not foresee what could happen to those "few" who are now experiencing heart inflammation ( and worse ) due to the way some people's bodies react to mRNA technology.

 

[Dave G]

At least with a vaccine you know the risks.

With many vaccines I would agree.
But with these?

In my opinion, a vaccine or set of vaccines having a mere 6-8 months, relative, of being in circulation in the United States,
is not near enough time to be considered an overall success if the long-term side effects are not known ( and are still surfacing after the population settles into living with it traveling around in their bodies ).

To me, "long-term" is not 6-8 months, it's more like 3-5 years.

In addition,
Many of the people at my workplace, when told about the potential risks of the new vaccines, act surprised that such things as Myocarditis and Pericarditis were not made more clear to them when they accepted them.
Whether that was because the manufacturers didn't know ( which they did ), or the doctors and nurses giving the shots didn't know, is unclear to me.

But you are right. It is out of fear. The politicians have been fearmongering since covid hit.

Thank you, and I quite agree.

As I see it, this thing has been motivated by the fear of the unknown from the beginning ( which, since then has leveled out at 98+% or better for a survival rate ), ever since the reports of deaths started coming in.
From my perspective it's still being motivated by fear, and this fear should not be spilling over into how God's people conduct themselves.

I know that I, for one, have not been afraid of it since it started...
But what I am and was concerned with, is how the rest of the world was ( and is ) going to react...which does affect me in the short-term.

 

[JonC]

Which brings me to my next point...
What is it that Christians ( especially some of the one's I'm seeing post in these threads ) are afraid of in all of this?

That they will die of CoVID if they do not get vaccinated?
To me that shouldn't even be a consideration, given Who they have as their Saviour and what He's promised to do for them.

Jon,

I don't deny that these new vaccines have been effective.
I'm sure that they have.

I'm also equally sure that we, as a race, are not done seeing all the people who will die or have debilitatiing side effects from a technology that really should not have been rushed into production on something of this scale.
Yes, I'm sure they had plenty of volunteers to conduct the trials with.
No, I'm sure they did not foresee what could happen to those "few" who are now experiencing heart inflammation ( and worse ) due to the way some people's bodies react to mRNA technology.

I think Christians who result to desperation and seek out these off the wall sources we are talking about do so out of fear.

We know about mRNA vaccines. While this is the first commercially used it is far from the first. The fear of mRNA is not rational. That said, there is still the unknown (we do not know if covid does permanent damage that will not be detected for years to come either).

 

[Dave G]

The fear of mRNA is not rational.

Jon,
I don't fear mRNA.
I fear fallen men and what we do ( and have done ) with God's creation ( though I shouldn't ).

I'm also concerned for all the people rushing into this that are not aware that it's still basically experimental with regard to the general populace and with regard to long-term side effects.
What's more,
some people are acting like these new vaccines are at the cusp of something that will lead to cures for all sorts of illnesses.

I'll answer that with this:

Are we as men so foolish as to think that we can stay one step ahead of God?
If He wants to take life, He will do it no matter how hard people try to avoid it.

 

[Dave G]

I'll make this my final reply in this thread.

That said, there is still the unknown (we do not know if covid does permanent damage that will not be detected for years to come either).

I agree.

But I feel that I must add that there is also the unknown ( never mind the known ) about how mRNA and DNA technologies interact with people's bodies and their cells over the long term.
Effects that may not be detected for years to come.

That is why I do not view anything that is made from them them as "safe".

Jon,
It is my somewhat educated opinion that mankind has rushed into this situation in desperation...
And that desperation is not going to recede as long as SARS-COV2 and its variants are still being brought under control ( which, to me, is an illusion, because influenza still kills people by the thousands every year, and scientists think that they have it "under control" ).

I'm also a "tech-head",
and because of that and despite all of that, I can tell you that I have a very strong feeling that this will blow up in our collective faces...
and even if it doesn't, mRNA and DNA bio-technologies will never defeat the Lord who determines a person's days ( Job 14:5, Job 21:21, Ecclesiastes 3:2, Hebrews 9:27 );

No one will escape their appointment with Judgement.
But believers in Jesus Christ have escaped the consequences of it, and we can take comfort in the fact that no matter what happens, we have a Saviour who loves us and gave Himself for us.


May God bless you as always.

 

[Revmitchell]

The fear of mRNA is reasonable

 

[37818]

It is not simple.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RNA_virus

 

[JonC]

Jon,
I don't fear mRNA.
I fear fallen men and what we do ( and have done ) with God's creation ( though I shouldn't ).

I'm also concerned for all the people rushing into this that are not aware that it's still basically experimental with regard to the general populace and with regard to long-term sie effects.
What's more,
some people are acting like these new vaccines are at the cusp of something that will lead to cures for all sorts of illnesses.

I'll answer that with this:

Are we as men so foolish as to think that we can stay one step ahead of God?
If He wants to take life, He will do it no matter how hard people try to avoid it.

I do not think you fear mRNA vaccines. Sorry if it sounded otherwise.

I was speaking of that group we both identified as trusting anybody except the scientists out of despiration.

I do not believe we would have made the medical advances we have over the years, and saved the lives that have been saved, except for God.

It is not that mRNA is at the cusp of something that will lead to cures for all sorts of illnesses, but it could be (we certainly have been there before and God blessed man through medical advancements).

It is that mRNA is a safer vaccine than traditional methods and can be produced more quickly. That is the advantage.

We will not be here a second longer than God wants us here. That said, there are consequences for our decisions.

I would be much more concerned about the long term effects of a RNA virus than a mRNA vaccine.