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Music in Latin and such...

Sherrie

New Member
Wait Aaron....I like CCM, and I am not going for it.

Sherrie
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Joshua Rhodes

<img src=/jrhodes.jpg>
I don't think the "CCM" argument enters into it at all. Isn't that a discussion for another thread?

As far as the other languages go, I think, again, that it depends on your congregation. The key is the understanding of the lyric. If the congregation understands what the song is about, Who it is to, and what the lyrics are saying, I don't see the problem. I have served in a church that even had these songs in the choral library, and the congregation loved to sing along with Pater Noster "Lord's Prayer", and Credo "Creed". This was a unusual situation, but I believe can't be unique to that church.

Bottom line: If the congregation understands, there is nothing wrong with it. In my opinion, the 1 Corinthians Scripture doesn't apply unless the congregation is not edified.

In His Grip,
joshua
 

Aaron

Member
Site Supporter
The bottom line is it doesn't conform to the simplicity prescribed by the Apostle. There's no doubt that singing in Latin is beautiful, but what is gained in hearing Adeste Fideles along with O Come, All Ye Faithful. It serves only to satisfy the ear and pride of man.

Now, had the man sang Adeste Fideles never having known Latin at all then sang O Come, All Ye Faithful then that would have been a supernatural tongue.

As it stands it is just vanity.
 

Aaron

Member
Site Supporter
Originally posted by ScottEmerson:
I've never spoken in tongues. My late grandfather did, though. Twice. Both times were when he was in prayer. He prayed more than anyone I knew. Twice, he began speaking words that he honestly didn't know what they meant. He said that he felt the presence of the Holy Spirit quite strongly. My grandfather is from a Presbyterian background before becoming Baptist, and even had a personal copy of "Why Tongues Ceased." Needless to say, after his experience, he threw the book away.

That said, God understands the words. I do believe that singing the ancient hymns, such as "Mighty Fortress Is Our God" in the original German, can be a great way to worship Christ, as well as appreciating the heritage of our faith.
Here is one who is "training" the next generation of church leaders.

Last year I warned that in ten years there won't be much difference between the SBC and charismatic churches. I'm not far off.

http://www.baptistboard.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=58;t=001413#000003
 

DanielFive

New Member
Hi Aaron,

The link you posted seems to be a private forum, not sure which one, could you provide the password? Thanks.

Enda
 

DanielFive

New Member
Yeah Aaron, I'd tried that, but the link didn't work, it said something like "No such number". Anyway, I copied the link to my address bar and it works there without any need for a password.

Interesting thread.
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Sherrie

New Member
Aaron that is really not a fair statement. No disrespect to you is intended. But my Church is SBC, and we do nothing that would be concidered a Charsmatic Church.

God Bless
Sherrie
 

Aaron

Member
Site Supporter
Nothing? CCM was accepted first by the charismatics. It is perfect for ecstatic worship experiences. Now it's in the SBC.

But it hasn't been 10 years yet. Give it time. If CCM stays in it can't help but become charismatic.
 

Sherrie

New Member
Actually, I do not think my church does CCM in congregation singing. I never have, nor have I heard them. We do however have special singing by someone, and special choir singing during different holidays.

This tho is not the qualifications for charismatic.

But please Aaron, CCM has nothing to do with being Charismatic. You are just trying to pick a fight.

I knew this thread was moving too smoothly.

Let me ask you, do you wear long sleeves only, KJV only, IFB, Any of these fit you? hmmmmmmm....you also might be considered pentecostal. Oh wait...then you would be charismatic.

Your assumption of everyone who listens to CCM is wrong and opinionated.


Charismatic (krz-mtk)

adj.
Of, relating to, or characterized by charisma: “the warmth of a naturally charismatic leader” (Joyce Carol Oates).
Of, relating to, or being a type of Christianity that emphasizes personal religious experience and divinely inspired powers, as of healing, prophecy, and the gift of tongues.


A member of a Christian charismatic group or movement.


I abide in Christ Jesus. So whatever you want to call me for doing so, you do that.

Sherrie
 

Mike McK

New Member
Originally posted by Sherrie:
But please Aaron, CCM has nothing to do with being Charismatic. You are just trying to pick a fight.

I knew this thread was moving too smoothly.

Your assumption of everyone who listens to CCM is wrong and opinionated.

I abide in Christ Jesus. So whatever you want to call me for doing so, you do that.

Sherrie
Agreed. One has nothing to do with the other, otherwise, you'd have to account for all of the people who aren't charismatic who listen to CCM and all of the charismatics who don't listen to CCM.

I do agree that he's just trying to pick a fight, just like he's doing in the "bar tunes" thread, a subject for which there are already two or three threads and which has been beaten to death.
 

yod

Member
Originally posted by ablfd:
I hit the reply button here, was just about to start typing, then remembered Elisheva Shomron's Kadosh...

Kadosh kadosh kadosh
Adonai Elohim tz'va'ot

Asher hayah
V'hoveh v'yavo


I have been debating wether or not to ask Pastor if he thinks it could be added to the "play-list"
...So there goes another smart reply out the window for me huh


Pete [/QB]
Oh I used to really love playing that song in the early 90's. It's been overdone now...

Still a great song to use sometimes though.


OK I'm late to this thread and I didn't read all 4 pages but has anyone ever tried songs in hebrew and english?

I do it all the time and people seem to love it. The Lord moves and the Spirit falls.

I keep it pretty simple hebrew...and repetitive enough for the congregation to jump in when they're ready.

Something about the hebrew language just makes the experience of worship more authentic to me.

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T

Travelsong

Guest
Originally posted by Aaron:
Nothing? CCM was accepted first by the charismatics. It is perfect for ecstatic worship experiences. Now it's in the SBC.
My parents were saved out of the hippie generation when CCM became popular and they were never charismatic.

Point one proven demonstrably wrong.

Originally posted by Aaron:
But it hasn't been 10 years yet. Give it time. If CCM stays in it can't help but become charismatic.
My church has incorporated choruses and some "modern worship" into sunday morning praise for 7 or 8 years now and they are about as far from charismatic as you can possibly get. We are talking Conservative Baptist five point Calvinists here.

Point 2 proven demonstrably wrong. Next?
 

Pete

New Member
Originally posted by yod:
[QB] </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by ablfd:
Kadosh...
Oh I used to really love playing that song in the early 90's. It's been overdone now...

Still a great song to use sometimes though.</font>[/QUOTE]G'day yod


OK, you've talked me into it ;)

I'll add Kadosh to the list of "maybes" I am giving Pastor
I just wonder what the people will make of that one if we do use it


Pete
 

Pete

New Member
Oops...double post...

But anyway, I find a few of the Hillsongs to be overdone down this way...Mainly the ones that are not worth over-doing ;)

Pete
 

Aaron

Member
Site Supporter
Originally posted by yod:
...has anyone ever tried songs in hebrew and english?

I do it all the time and people seem to love it. The Lord moves and the Spirit falls.

I keep it pretty simple hebrew...and repetitive enough for the congregation to jump in when they're ready.

Something about the hebrew language just makes the experience of worship more authentic to me.
Here's some more of that Charismatic talk, "the Spirit falls." In the past I only heard that among Pentecostals and Charismatics. When someone says "the Spirit falls," they're describing an ecstatic or trance-like, deeply emotional experience thinking it is akin to the signs and wonders of the Holy Ghost in Acts 10:44 and 11:15.

It has nothing to do with the Spirit however, and everything to do with the natural responses to the music.

CCM was accepted first by the Pentecostals and Charismatics because it fits so well with their manner of worship (which is not real worship). It is easier to evoke ecstatic responses with repetitious, heavily rhythmic music than it is with handclapping, hallelujah's, glory's to God, and so on repeated over and over in a mantra-like fashion.

Slowy CCM worked its way into the mainstream denomination, and the "worship-ful" responses are exactly like those in Pentecostalism.

So despite the objections, CCM has everything to do with the Charismatic movement.

Nothing whatsoever with the Baptist faith.
 

yod

Member
Aaron...
I don't call worship a "natural" response.

Maybe you don't know the difference....

[ August 11, 2003, 01:16 AM: Message edited by: Dr. Bob Griffin ]
 

ScottEmerson

Active Member
Originally posted by Aaron:
handclapping, hallelujah's, glory's to God,
And I always thought those things were found in Psalms. Who knew? (BTW, - and I think yod would verify this - weren't the original Hebrew praise songs - as far as we are able to tell- filled with clapping, hallelujahs, glories to God, and rhythmic chanting of "His love endures forever" and such?)
 
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