Musical Instruments in Christ's church [2]

[Thinkingstuff]

I don't care what the COC believe. I'm whipping out my guitar in church and singing songs! And I hope that there are people who play piano, bass, violin, trumptes, drums, xialaphone, triangle, and any other instrument you can think of and join me.

 

[DHK]

I don't care what the COC believe. I'm whipping out my guitar in church and singing songs! And I hope that there are people who play piano, bass, violin, trumptes, drums, xialaphone, triangle, and any other instrument you can think of and join me.

No one has mentioned COC here. Please don't bring its doctrine into this thread.
But I am glad that you are getting this thread back on topic.

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

DHK: Instead of playing games of semantics, just tell the truth simply and plainly.

HP: Your unwillingness or inability to comprehend simple principles of morality that distinguishes it clearly from the realm of necessity in no wise necessitates me being guilty of playing games of semantics. I have told you plainly and will contiue to do the same the Lord willing in the future.

 

[Thinkingstuff]

No one has mentioned COC here. Please don't bring its doctrine into this thread.
But I am glad that you are getting this thread back on topic.

I thought it was a continuation from the previous thread which there was heated debate about COC doctine. It is not sinful to use musical instruments in worship. Ridiculous!

 

[DHK]

I thought it was a continuation from the previous thread which there was heated debate about COC doctine. It is not sinful to use musical instruments in worship. Ridiculous!

It is. I am sorry. I am getting my threads mixed up. Carry on.

 

[DHK]

HP: Your unwillingness or inability to comprehend simple principles of morality that distinguishes it clearly from the realm of necessity in no wise necessitates me being guilty of playing games of semantics. I have told you plainly and will contiue to do the same the Lord willing in the future.

Your failure to answer plainly stated questions betrays you.
You simply have a penchant for word games.

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

DHK: Do you or do you not believe that man has a depraved nature?

HP: Tell me DHK, depraved physically or spiritually, at birth or subsequent to moral agency? Words such as ‘depraved nature’ are about as broad as the ocean is deep. It depends on which realm and at what point in time of ones life you are speaking about. There is moral depravity and there is physical depravity. You would do well to define your terms as to what realm you are inquiring into.

 

[DHK]

I thought it was a continuation from the previous thread which there was heated debate about COC doctine. It is not sinful to use musical instruments in worship. Ridiculous!

I agree; it is not sinful.

 

[TCGreek]

Y

Certainly.
Ephesians 5:19.
"Speaking to yourselves in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord;"

making melody - psallo
in - en (which means: in, by, with etc.)
your - hymōn (simply: of yours; your)
heart - kardia

.

The Greek preposition en is not in the Greek text. This is false information.

The Greek construction is dative and is properly rendered "from the heart" (TNIV) or "with the heart" (ESV).

Try another approach. This one is surely misleading.

 

[InChrist]

I personally love to hear people using talents that God has blessed them with, playing instruments of all kinds, lifting voices of all timbers, blending together in harmony, rhythm and beauty, singing praises to our God! It uplifts the soul.

Many fear the emotion that music stirs, believing emotions are sinful. Yes, some of them are, yet I do not believe the Lord would have us be emotionLESS. God gave us emotions and feelings, and while we should not depend on them, we can certainly thank the Lord for them.

From my experience stiff, staid music with no joy, life or spirit can be just as destroying to the Church as the worldly influences of rock-n-roll.

A hymn rich with doctrine, a psalm or a simple chorus... hey even a spiritual song!... lifted up in voice alone can be just as beautiful, spiritually encouraging, exhorting and uplifting as a full symphony choir. But the main ingredient to any song sung for the glory of the Lord is a heart dependent upon and in tune with the moving of the Holy Spirit in the lives of the people.

 

[defenderofthefaith]

After thinking about it for a long time; I'm finally leaving BaptistBoard *waits for the cheers and clapping to subside*
You can find me at www.examinetheword.wordpress.com - if you want to continue debating with me. Hope to see many of you there!

 

[DHK]

After thinking about it for a long time; I'm finally leaving BaptistBoard *waits for the cheers and clapping to subside*
You can find me at www.examinetheword.wordpress.com - if you want to continue debating with me. Hope to see many of you there!

Don't hold your breath.

 

[Darron Steele]

After thinking about it for a long time; I'm finally leaving BaptistBoard *waits for the cheers and clapping to subside*
You can find me at www.examinetheword.wordpress.com - if you want to continue debating with me. Hope to see many of you there!

Well, I think you would have gotten a better reception here if you had done quite a few things differently.

It is much easier to promote an indefensible thesis in a setting where you will usually be the only person talking and you control what happens. A blog allows people to
1) set the rules of discussion in a way favorable to one person, and
2) control the flow of conversation
much better than a discussion board -- especially one where the moderators aim for fairness.

There, you can assume what the burden of proof is on you to substantiate. Here, obviously, you could not do that.

If you really are leaving this board for good, I wish you the best.

 

[OldRegular]

My opinion, based on the Apostle Paul's description of worship in 1 Corinthians 14:26-33 and the words of Jesus Christ that we are to worship in spirit and in truth [John 4:23], is that musical instruments have no place in a Christian worship service. I am perfectly aware of Scripture in the Old Testament and Revelation that mention musical instruments. However, much of the language of Revelation is figurative and is not definitive justification.

That being said consider what musical instruments have brought to the Church. For years it was the organ and the piano. Now we have full blown, and I mean blown, orchestras whose purpose seems to be: Drown out the voices of the choir and/or the congregation. Rather than edifying most of the noise sounds as if it belonged at a dance hall, a rock concert, or some of the other concerts the current generation relishes.

 

[Darron Steele]

My opinion, ...is that musical instruments have no place in a Christian worship service.

Well, that is an opinion.

Lots of Christians have held that opinion. That does not mean that Scripture backs it.

I am perfectly aware of Scripture in the Old Testament and Revelation that mention musical instruments. However, much of the language of Revelation is figurative and is not definitive justification.

There it is again: the assertion that those who continue the Scripturally-approved practice of worship with musical instruments need "justification" for doing so.

Once again, this assumes what needs to be substantiated: that musical instruments are wrong.

Fact: the Scriptures show nothing but approval from God for musical instruments.

That being said consider what musical instruments have brought to the Church. For years it was the organ and the piano. Now we have full blown, and I mean blown, orchestras whose purpose seems to be: Drown out the voices of the choir and/or the congregation. Rather than edifying most of the noise sounds as if it belonged at a dance hall, a rock concert, or some of the other concerts the current generation relishes.

I will agree with you that musical instruments get overused. I think it is better to not have them than to have such madness.

Still, our feelings aside, the Scriptures do not support a church-wide ban against musical instruments. The Scriptures in their entirety show God's approval of musical instruments in worship, and there is no indication in Scripture that God has reversed His sentiment.

 

[OldRegular]

Still, our feelings aside, the Scriptures do not support a church-wide ban against musical instruments. The Scriptures in their entirety show God's approval of musical instruments in worship, and there is no indication in Scripture that God has reversed His sentiment.

You conveniently ignored the Scripture I presented. It is my belief that the introduction of musical instruments into the Church present the simplest way for the world to enter the Church. I doubt that the sight of women swishing their behinds in time with the instruments is conducive to worshipping in spirit and truth.

 

[Darron Steele]

You conveniently ignored the Scripture I presented. It is my belief that the introduction of musical instruments into the Church present the simplest way for the world to enter the Church. I doubt that the sight of women swishing their behinds in time with the instruments is conducive to worshipping in spirit and truth.

I never ignore Scripture.

I simply did not see where it supported your opinion, and I wanted to keep the discussion about what you admitted was your "opinion" -- your word.

Any person can give a personal opinion and append an unrelated Scripture passage. People do it all the time. It does not make the passage support the opinion presented, or even relevant to the subject.

Do you want to discuss Scripture or opinion? From what I see, most of your objection to musical instruments is opinion-based -- as any objection to musical instruments would have to be.

I do agree that use of musical instruments presents the risk of overuse. I think that when overuse happens, it would be better not to use them at all. Still, that is only my opinion.

 

[steaver]

Basically the entirety of my arguments from here - all put in one article (plus a lot more). Seeing it all together...I'm still amazed at how many here are still in denial of it.

The entirety of your arguments have been thoroughly refuted and debunked here. When you find some scripture against musical instruments please drop in and share. We have no need to drop in on your blog if just to read the same old debunked arguments.

I think what will probably truly amaze you is when you see the Refiner's fire vaporizing the doctrine of anti-music before your very eyes, POOF!

Yet he himself shall be saved. God Bless! :thumbsup:

 

[steaver]

My opinion, based on the Apostle Paul's description of worship in 1 Corinthians 14:26-33 and the words of Jesus Christ that we are to worship in spirit and in truth [John 4:23], is that musical instruments have no place in a Christian worship service.

Well, that surely is an opinion. However, according to Apostle Paul and Jesus Christ there is no such exemption of musical instruments in worship. Furthermore we see musical instruments used in worship throughout the Word of God.

I am perfectly aware of Scripture in the Old Testament and Revelation that mention musical instruments. However, much of the language of Revelation is figurative and is not definitive justification.

It seems "definitive justification" only comes into your analysis when it is convienent to your "opinion".

God Bless!

 

[OldRegular]

I never ignore Scripture.

I simply did not see where it supported your opinion, and I wanted to keep the discussion about what you admitted was your "opinion" -- your word.

Any person can give a personal opinion and append an unrelated Scripture passage. People do it all the time. It does not make the passage support the opinion presented, or even relevant to the subject.

Do you want to discuss Scripture or opinion? From what I see, most of your objection to musical instruments is opinion-based -- as any objection to musical instruments would have to be.

I do agree that use of musical instruments presents the risk of overuse. I think that when overuse happens, it would be better not to use them at all. Still, that is only my opinion.

You may think that the Apostle Paul's advice regarding an acceptable worship service is meaningless but I do not. Of course you are entitled to your opinion.

You may think that the words of Jesus Christ regarding worshipping in spirit and truth have no meaning for the Church today but I do. Of course you are entitled to your opinion.