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Musical Instruments in Christ's church

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steaver

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
It all boils down to personal preference, doesn't it?

Cheers,

Jim

It does to most who have learned how to discern between good and evil...

Hbr 5:14But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, [even] those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.

But if it was required for a Christian to choose one over the other, a study of scripture would give overwhelming evidence that one should actually be using music to worship the Lord when it is availiable. But, in the words of Paul about such things.....

1Cr 11:16But if any man seem to be contentious, we have no such custom, neither the churches of God.

:jesus:
 

Darron Steele

New Member
steaver said:
...

But if it was required for a Christian to choose one over the other, a study of scripture would give overwhelming evidence that one should actually be using music to worship the Lord when it is availiable. ...
I would not go that far.

I think it is a matter of congregational leadership's preference when it comes to a formal congregation. When it comes to a less-formal setting of assembled worship, it is a matter of preference of the participants. When it is individual settings, it is a matter of personal preference.

I think if God had a strong preference for one over the other, His written Word would have an explicit statement so.

The lack of statement that He prefers musical instruments suggests to me that He does not want those who cannot use, or do not enjoy, musical instruments to think their worship would be less pleasing to Him. Also, it would probably lead to a `caste system' where those who could use musical instruments were viewed as `better worshipers' than those who cannot. I am sure God has His reasons for never expressing a preference.

Practical illustration: the worship of militant vocal-only Churches of Christ would be joyless if they felt that they had to sing along to a musical instrument, given how much they are conditioned to disdain them. Their worship is better without one, as the Lord prefers a joyful noise.

I will agree with you on this: the Scriptures are overwhelming in its evidence that God takes pleasure in musical instruments being used in worship of Him.
 
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steaver

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
I would not go that far.

I think it is a matter of congregational leadership's preference when it comes to a formal congregation. When it comes to a less-formal setting of assembled worship, it is a matter of preference of the participants. When it is individual settings, it is a matter of personal preference.

I think if God had a strong preference for one over the other, His written Word would have an explicit statement so.

The Scripture is overwhelming in its evidence that God takes pleasure in musical instruments being used in worship of Him.

Amen! :thumbs: (I said "if it were required to choose", it is not)
 
DHK said:
Good, now that you have changed your mind and have admitted that we can use it. I will quote these verses once again:

We can use it - but not in the way you want to.
Its a symbolic use of the word "harps" - not a literal.
Again, the way Revelation was written and the time period it was written in - it must be interepted and used differently than other books.
I'll quote Ray Summers again about the writing of Revelation:
Ray Summers: “The personal safety of both writer and reader was endangered if the persecutors understood the true meaning of the book. For this reason the message of the apocalypse [Revelation and other books] was written so as to conceal and to reveal—to conceal the message from the outsider but to reveal its message to the initiated” (1951, p. 5)
And for those wondering who Ray Summers is (and I've already posted this for DHK)
Dr. Ray Summers, recognized Greek scholar, professor of New Testament and Greek classes at Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary, professor of The Southern Baptist Theological Seminary, and Baylor University, where he was Chairman of the Religion Department. He is the author of Essentials of New Testament Greek and also author of Worthy is the Lamb which interprets Revelation in alliance with the historical circumstances Christians encountered in the late first century (this book is of which I quoted from).

--Once and for all showing that the song of the redeemed in heaven will be accompanied by instruments--the harp, in particular.
Words have meanings. You cannot just say this is symbolic therefore we can't use it. That is just foolishness. If you don't want to believe the Bible, then that is your choice.

You want to assume that since I said Revelation is different than other books - that I do not want to believe it. This is not true.

Darron Steele said:
Yeah; you basically said that we cannot really believe Revelation 5.
Really? Could you bold the words I used that implied that?

rbell said:
Wow. You sure do manage to disqualify a bunch of Scripture, just to hold to a "biblical" position.

First Psalms, now Revelation.

What's next?

I never once "disqualified" Revelation! It is "apocalyptic literature" therefore it must be interepted and applied much differently than like the other books of the Bible.

Darron Steele said:
I have read Church of Christ literature that says the Ten Commandments are not applicable today.

Yes I am serious.

Really now? Mind linking me to that website or telling me the title to whatever book you read that from? Or have you convenietly forgotten?
 
annsni said:
Blue Letter Bible says:

1) a striking, twanging

a) of a striking the chords of a musical instrument

b) of a pious song, a psalm

Does that help?

My friend, after failing to discover a biblical command, a binding example, or a necessary inference for the use of mechanical instruments in Christian worship, those who advocate the use of such music (as most of the members on this board) often - as a last resort - allege that the term psallo includes the use of instrumental music. Psallo is the Greek verb translated “making melody” in Ephesians 5:19, and “I will sing” in 1 Corinthians 14:15. The noun form of this term, psalmos, appears in such passages as 1 Corinthians 14:26, Ephesians 5:19, and Colossians 3:16. If one looks up psallo in a Greek lexicon (as annsni did) , you will find the following definitions: to touch, pull, or pluck; to twitch the strings on a carpenter’s line; to pluck or strike the cords on a musical instrument; to sing praises.
Upon reviewing these definitions, some claim that Paul’s use of psallo and psalmos implies the use of a stringed instrument in worship. But then they must further assert that these words always convey the idea of instrumental accompaniment to singing, even if the instrument is not mentioned. Are they correct? If not, why not?

When one studies the etymology of this word, he will find that it is incorrect to say that every time psallo was used in antiquity, it meant to play an instrument. By studying reliable Greek lexicons (dictionaries) and various historical documents, one soon comes to understand that the term psallo has had a variety of meanings in different periods of its history. In fact, the evidence indicates that even before Christ came to Earth, psallo no longer meant to play instruments of music. Numerous scholarly sources could be cited to prove this point.
First, Walter Bauer’s highly respected lexicon, revised by Frederick Danker in 2000, indicates that even in the Septuagint (a Greek translation of the Old Testament that appeared about 250 years before Christ was born), it is nearly always the case that psallo is translated as only “to sing” (2000, p. 1096).
In Henry Thayer’s often-quoted Greek lexicon, he noted that by the time the events recorded in the New Testament took place, psallo meant “to sing a hymn, to celebrate the praises of God in song” (1962, p. 675).
And finally, Sophocles, a native Greek and for thirty-eight years a professor of the Greek language at Harvard University, declared (after examining a plethora of secular and religious historical documents) that there was not a single example psallo ever used in the time of Christ that involved or implied the use of an instrument; rather, it always meant to chant or sing religious hymns (see Kurfees, 1999, p. 47).

When one wishes to know the definition of a word from times past, he must inquire as to how the word was used at any particular time in history. For example, when one reads the word “prevent” in the King James Version (cf. 1 Thessalonians 4:15), he must understand that this word does not mean the same thing it did when this version was first produced in 1611. Then, it meant “to go before; to precede.” Today, it means “to keep from happening; to impede.” The word “idiot” was used in the seventeenth century in reference to one “in a private station, as distinguished from one holding public office.” Today, it is used to speak of “an unlearned, or ignorant person.” Just as these English words once had meanings that now are entirely obsolete, the Greek word psallo once meant “to pluck or strike the chords of a musical instrument.” But, before the beginning of the New Testament period, it had lost this meaning. In his well-researched book, Instrumental Music in the Worship, M.C. Kurfees noted that the word psallo never is used in the New Testament or in contemporaneous literature to mean anything other than to sing (1999, p. 45). The other meanings had entirely disappeared by the time the New Testament was written.

The fact is, however, even if this word had retained all of its original meanings (and the evidence shows that it clearly had not), the letters Paul penned to the Christians in Ephesus and Colossae specifically name the “plucked” instrument—the heart. Thus, a harp, piano, banjo, or any other kind of musical instrument is no more an integral part of psallo than the plucking of chicken feathers. The deceptive and misleading argument which suggests that in the New Testament psallo means “to strike the cords on a musical instrument,” is false to the core. It can be refuted simply by taking an honest look at all of the evidence available. [This Article was used with permission.]
 
annsni said:
Blue Letter Bible says:

1) a striking, twanging

a) of a striking the chords of a musical instrument

b) of a pious song, a psalm

Does that help?

My friend, after failing to discover a biblical command, a binding example, or a necessary inference for the use of mechanical instruments in Christian worship, those who advocate the use of such music (as most of the members on this board) often - as a last resort - allege that the term psallo includes the use of instrumental music. Psallo is the Greek verb translated “making melody” in Ephesians 5:19, and “I will sing” in 1 Corinthians 14:15. The noun form of this term, psalmos, appears in such passages as 1 Corinthians 14:26, Ephesians 5:19, and Colossians 3:16. If one looks up psallo in a Greek lexicon (as annsni did) , you will find the following definitions: to touch, pull, or pluck; to twitch the strings on a carpenter’s line; to pluck or strike the cords on a musical instrument; to sing praises.
Upon reviewing these definitions, some claim that Paul’s use of psallo and psalmos implies the use of a stringed instrument in worship. But then they must further assert that these words always convey the idea of instrumental accompaniment to singing, even if the instrument is not mentioned. Are they correct? If not, why not?

When one studies the etymology of this word, he will find that it is incorrect to say that every time psallo was used in antiquity, it meant to play an instrument. By studying reliable Greek lexicons (dictionaries) and various historical documents, one soon comes to understand that the term psallo has had a variety of meanings in different periods of its history. In fact, the evidence indicates that even before Christ came to Earth, psallo no longer meant to play instruments of music. Numerous scholarly sources could be cited to prove this point.
First, Walter Bauer’s highly respected lexicon, revised by Frederick Danker in 2000, indicates that even in the Septuagint (a Greek translation of the Old Testament that appeared about 250 years before Christ was born), it is nearly always the case that psallo is translated as only “to sing” (2000, p. 1096).
In Henry Thayer’s often-quoted Greek lexicon, he noted that by the time the events recorded in the New Testament took place, psallo meant “to sing a hymn, to celebrate the praises of God in song” (1962, p. 675).
And finally, Sophocles, a native Greek and for thirty-eight years a professor of the Greek language at Harvard University, declared (after examining a plethora of secular and religious historical documents) that there was not a single example psallo ever used in the time of Christ that involved or implied the use of an instrument; rather, it always meant to chant or sing religious hymns (see Kurfees, 1999, p. 47).

When one wishes to know the definition of a word from times past, he must inquire as to how the word was used at any particular time in history. For example, when one reads the word “prevent” in the King James Version (cf. 1 Thessalonians 4:15), he must understand that this word does not mean the same thing it did when this version was first produced in 1611. Then, it meant “to go before; to precede.” Today, it means “to keep from happening; to impede.” The word “idiot” was used in the seventeenth century in reference to one “in a private station, as distinguished from one holding public office.” Today, it is used to speak of “an unlearned, or ignorant person.” Just as these English words once had meanings that now are entirely obsolete, the Greek word psallo once meant “to pluck or strike the chords of a musical instrument.” But, before the beginning of the New Testament period, it had lost this meaning. In his well-researched book, Instrumental Music in the Worship, M.C. Kurfees noted that the word psallo never is used in the New Testament or in contemporaneous literature to mean anything other than to sing (1999, p. 45). The other meanings had entirely disappeared by the time the New Testament was written.

The fact is, however, even if this word had retained all of its original meanings (and the evidence shows that it clearly had not), the letters Paul penned to the Christians in Ephesus and Colossae specifically name the “plucked” instrument—the heart. Thus, a harp, piano, banjo, or any other kind of musical instrument is no more an integral part of psallo than the plucking of chicken feathers. The deceptive and misleading argument which suggests that in the New Testament psallo means “to strike the cords on a musical instrument,” is false to the core. It can be refuted simply by taking an honest look at all of the evidence available. [This Article was used with permission.]
 
steaver said:
I do have a question for "defenderofthefaith"...

In light of your basic argument, which is God's NT word does not give instructions to use instruments with singing in worship (as a tool or anything else) and therefore it is so obviously prohibited, why is it you find the use of "male" song leaders in worship ok with God's word since this also is not commanded in God's word concerning the singing of worship songs unto the Lord?

Where does God's word instruct you to use song leaders in this worship? And where does God's word instruct you to use only male song leaders in this worship?

1 Corinthians 14:34-35
"the women should keep silent in the churches. For they are not permitted to speak, but should be in submission, as the Law also says.
If there is anything they desire to learn, let them ask their husbands at home. For it is shameful for a woman to speak in church."


Woman cannot lead the worship service, therefore they cannot lead the songs, they cannot have authority over man.

1 Timothy 2:12
"I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man; rather, she is to remain quiet."

dh1948 said:
I have seen C of C "song leaders" (God forbid that they be called "Ministers of Music.") use a small round pitch finder, aka, a musical instrument!

This "pitch finder" as you call it - in now way worships God or invades the act of singing!
 
Concerning....
Psalms

The argument has been, Christ nailed the Law to the cross (Colossians 2:14), it was removed or abrogated (Ephesians 2:15; Romans 7:1).

The defence against this is that Psalms is in no way a part of the Law and the law is only the first 5 books of the Bible.

An interesting verse a friend of mine pointed out....Jesus himself called Psalms part of the law.

John 10:34
"Jesus answered them, "Is it not written in your Law, 'I said, you are gods'?"

Jesus is quoting Psalms 82:6!
"I said, "You are gods, sons of the Most High, all of you;"

Jesus quoted Psalms and referred to Psalms as the LAW.
Interesting isn't it?

The argument of David and the Psalms as a source of authority for using musical instruments has just ended.

My friends, I beg you to see reason - the scripture gives no authority for using musical instruments. It is not found in the will of God - why go outside the will of God!?
 

Darron Steele

New Member
I have read Church of Christ literature that says the Ten Commandments are not applicable today.

Yes I am serious.
defenderofthefaith said:
...


Really now? Mind linking me to that website or telling me the title to whatever book you read that from? Or have you convenietly forgotten?
Hey, Bud: I resent the insinuation that I was lying.

I might mention that you left off a very important part of that post: "No that is not all Churches of Christ." That means what I posted may not apply to your portion. The cutting off of that part, then baseless accusation, might suggest that you are trying to make it appear I was saying that about all Churches of Christ -- when I clearly was not. If you want to make the case that anyone between us is being deliberately deceptive, I think the stronger case is against you. I suggest you be more careful with flippant accusations in the future. If you want the benefit of the doubt, you better be willing to give it. I also remind you that the Lord has ways of getting our attention.

I have been far too nice to you to deserve that insinuation from you. I have refrained from treating you like an absolute idiot even though a lot of the arguments and assertions you have made are far beneath your intelligence.

This board is just an Internet discussion board. To me, it is not worth sinning for. If I cyber-say something, you can best be sure it is true to the best of my knowledge.
 

Darron Steele

New Member
defenderofthefaith said:
...

My friends, I beg you to see reason - the scripture gives no authority for using musical instruments. It is not found in the will of God - why go outside the will of God!?
It is found in the will of God! We have shown it to you from the Scriptures!

What is not found is authority for a ban against what God throughout His written Word has shown His approval of.
 

Spinach

New Member
Bro. Curtis said:
Another crazy musician.
Bolded mine---and I couldn't agree more! LOL!

I love music. The Lord has given the talent and I want to praise Him with it. Last year He gave me two songs. I asked Him for them and He gave them to me. I'm thankful!
 

Spinach

New Member
I agree with Jim.

I don't like ketchup on my eggs and was not commanded to eat them that way.

I don't like to mix fruit with my chocolate and was not commanded to eat them that way.

I don't like corn on my pizza and was not commanded to eat them that way.

I suppose because the Bible is silent on the matter, everyone eating ketchup on their eggs, fruit with their chocolate, and corn on their pizza is out of the will of God. Great. I'll go let my husband know.
 

DHK

<b>Moderator</b>
defenderofthefaith said:
My friend, after failing to discover a biblical command, a binding example, or a necessary inference for the use of mechanical instruments in Christian worship, those who advocate the use of such music (as most of the members on this board) often - as a last resort - allege that the term psallo includes the use of instrumental music. Psallo is the Greek verb translated “making melody” in Ephesians 5:19, and “I will sing” in 1 Corinthians 14:15. The noun form of this term, psalmos, appears in such passages as 1 Corinthians 14:26, Ephesians 5:19, and Colossians 3:16. If one looks up psallo in a Greek lexicon (as annsni did) , you will find the following definitions: to touch, pull, or pluck; to twitch the strings on a carpenter’s line; to pluck or strike the cords on a musical instrument; to sing praises.
Upon reviewing these definitions, some claim that Paul’s use of psallo and psalmos implies the use of a stringed instrument in worship. But then they must further assert that these words always convey the idea of instrumental accompaniment to singing, even if the instrument is not mentioned. Are they correct? If not, why not?
It sounds like you are misrepresenting someone. I think you better use exact quotes.
First, the word "psallo" is used only five times in the NT. Three times it is translated "to sing;" once, "to sing psalms;" and once, "to make melody."
In the light of the above, it is not likely that this word "always" "conveys the idea of instrumental accompaniment," as you say or accuse them of saying. Rather I think others are saying, that the dictionaries define the word as having the possibility of "pluck; twitch the strings...pluck or strike the cords on a musical instrument, etc." The definition is still there. No one is forcing it into a context where it is not warranted.
When one studies the etymology of this word, he will find that it is incorrect to say that every time psallo was used in antiquity, it meant to play an instrument.
Agreed. But playing an instrument was one of the meanings.
By studying reliable Greek lexicons (dictionaries) and various historical documents, one soon comes to understand that the term psallo has had a variety of meanings in different periods of its history. In fact, the evidence indicates that even before Christ came to Earth, psallo no longer meant to play instruments of music. Numerous scholarly sources could be cited to prove this point.
Now this is clearly false. Both Thayer and Strong define the word as plucking the strings of an instrument. That definition is not outmoded.
First, Walter Bauer’s highly respected lexicon, revised by Frederick Danker in 2000, indicates that even in the Septuagint (a Greek translation of the Old Testament that appeared about 250 years before Christ was born), it is nearly always the case that psallo is translated as only “to sing” (2000, p. 1096).
In Henry Thayer’s often-quoted Greek lexicon, he noted that by the time the events recorded in the New Testament took place, psallo meant “to sing a hymn, to celebrate the praises of God in song” (1962, p. 675).
Are you being deliberately misleading?
FROM THAYER'S
psallō
Thayer Definition:
1) to pluck off, pull out
2) to cause to vibrate by touching, to twang
2a) to touch or strike the chord, to twang the strings of a musical instrument so that they gently vibrate
2b) to play on a stringed instrument, to play, the harp, etc.
2c) to sing to the music of the harp
2d) in the NT to sing a hymn, to celebrate the praises of God in song
If we can't trust you in what you say when quoting Thayer, can we trust you in quoting anyone else??
And finally, Sophocles, a native Greek and for thirty-eight years a professor of the Greek language at Harvard University, declared (after examining a plethora of secular and religious historical documents) that there was not a single example psallo ever used in the time of Christ that involved or implied the use of an instrument; rather, it always meant to chant or sing religious hymns (see Kurfees, 1999, p. 47).
Does that matter to me? A secular Greek? Unsaved? Perhaps studying classical Greek instead of Koine Greek, the Greek of the NT? I have already shown you the defintions of the word, as others have. You simply refuse to believe the Bible. Words have meanings. Playing a musical instrument is one of the meanings of the word psallo. You need to accept facts, not deny them.
When one wishes to know the definition of a word from times past, he must inquire as to how the word was used at any particular time in history. For example, when one reads the word “prevent” in the King James Version (cf. 1 Thessalonians 4:15), he must understand that this word does not mean the same thing it did when this version was first produced in 1611. Then, it meant “to go before; to precede.” Today, it means “to keep from happening; to impede.” The word “idiot” was used in the seventeenth century in reference to one “in a private station, as distinguished from one holding public office.” Today, it is used to speak of “an unlearned, or ignorant person.”
We are not speaking of a changing English language, a KJV Bible that is 400 years old with obsolete words, and the KJV still being used today. You are comparing apples to oranges here. There is no comparison. A modern day Greek is not able to speak the Greek of the time of Christ, Koine Greek. But the Greek definitions we have both from Strong's and Thayer are precisely those from the Koine Greek. You argue against yourself, and defeat yourself in your own argument.
Just as these English words once had meanings that now are entirely obsolete, the Greek word psallo once meant “to pluck or strike the chords of a musical instrument.” But, before the beginning of the New Testament period, it had lost this meaning. In his well-researched book, Instrumental Music in the Worship, M.C. Kurfees noted that the word psallo never is used in the New Testament or in contemporaneous literature to mean anything other than to sing (1999, p. 45). The other meanings had entirely disappeared by the time the New Testament was written.
You are either misunderstanding what he wrote or deliberately misusing the information that he gave. The fact is that the word always meant "to play with an instrument." That is one of the meanings of the word, and it always has been. It may or may not have been used that way in the NT. Kurfees may be right in saying that psallo is not used in the NT to mean "play with an instrument," but that doesn't deny that it has that meaning. There is a big difference between the two statements. The meaning did not disappear, as is quite apparent from Strong's and Thayer's lexicons.
The fact is, however, even if this word had retained all of its original meanings (and the evidence shows that it clearly had not), the letters Paul penned to the Christians in Ephesus and Colossae specifically name the “plucked” instrument—the heart. Thus, a harp, piano, banjo, or any other kind of musical instrument is no more an integral part of psallo than the plucking of chicken feathers. The deceptive and misleading argument which suggests that in the New Testament psallo means “to strike the cords on a musical instrument,” is false to the core. It can be refuted simply by taking an honest look at all of the evidence available. [This Article was used with permission.]
An honest look at the material points to a defintion of the word psallo that has a possible defintion of playing with an instrument. Perhaps "making melody" could have been done with an instrument as well as with voice. It doesn't seem to be an airtight case, does it?

(Eph 5:19) Then you will recite to one another psalms, hymns, and spiritual songs. You will sing and make music to the Lord with your hearts. (ISV)
 

DHK

<b>Moderator</b>
defenderofthefaith said:
Concerning....
Psalms

The argument has been, Christ nailed the Law to the cross (Colossians 2:14), it was removed or abrogated (Ephesians 2:15; Romans 7:1).

The defence against this is that Psalms is in no way a part of the Law and the law is only the first 5 books of the Bible.

An interesting verse a friend of mine pointed out....Jesus himself called Psalms part of the law.
You are wrong.
Here is what Jesus said about the Bible:
Luke 24:44 And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.

The three divisions of the OT that both the Jews and Jesus made were this:
1. The Books of Moses--the Pentateuch or the first five books.
2. The Psalms (writings), which included all of the Poetical books.
3. The Prophets, which included the historical books as well.

In these three divisions the Jews had 22 books, because the combined books. For example the 12 minor prophets were treated as one book called The Twelve. Whereas our five-fold division of the OT has 39 books, but the OT has still exactly the same content as the Jewish OT. Nothing has changed.
--When Jesus quoted from the Psalms, he wasn't quoting from the Law, and all the Jews knew it.
John 10:34
"Jesus answered them, "Is it not written in your Law, 'I said, you are gods'?"

Jesus is quoting Psalms 82:6!
"I said, "You are gods, sons of the Most High, all of you;"

Jesus quoted Psalms and referred to Psalms as the LAW.
Interesting isn't it?
Your assertion is absolutely false. Interesting, isn't it?
The argument of David and the Psalms as a source of authority for using musical instruments has just ended.
It should have ended a long time ago for you. The psalms were never recognized as part of the law. They are part of the poetical books of the OT, not part of the Law. Not even the Jews recognized them as the Law. Jesus didn't even consider them as part of the Law, as seen in Luke 24:44.
My friends, I beg you to see reason - the scripture gives no authority for using musical instruments. It is not found in the will of God - why go outside the will of God!?
Your argument is baseless. The Scripture gives no authority for having a song leader either. For that matter I don't remember the NT giving any authority for choirs, trios, duets, special congregational singing, church buildings, wearing shoes, and a whole lot of other things.
Why do you go outside the Bible? Why do you go outside the will of God in all of these things?
 

steaver

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
DOF:

1 Corinthians 14:34-35
"the women should keep silent in the churches. For they are not permitted to speak, but should be in submission, as the Law also says.
If there is anything they desire to learn, let them ask their husbands at home. For it is shameful for a woman to speak in church."


Woman cannot lead the worship service, therefore they cannot lead the songs, they cannot have authority over man.

1 Timothy 2:12
"I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man; rather, she is to remain quiet."

You missed the first question. Here it is again....

In light of your basic argument, which is God's NT word does not give instructions to use instruments with singing in worship (as a tool or anything else) and therefore it is so obviously prohibited, why is it you find the use of "male" song leaders in worship ok with God's word since this also is not commanded in God's word concerning the singing of worship songs unto the Lord?

This "pitch finder" as you call it - in no way worships God or invades the act of singing!

"Invasion" was not your argument from scripture. Your argument was music was not cammanded by God for worship. Your argument rest solely on the premise that if something is not commanded then it is not permitted lest you sin. If this is the measure of your doctrines then answer this....

Bowing your head and closing your eyes are not commanded for prayer. Do you practice these in your prayer time??

:godisgood:
 

Don

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Gonna ask this again, since I didn't get an answer from any of the CoC defenders: In the New Testament, what hymns were sung?
 

thegospelgeek

New Member
steaver said:
Bowing your head and closing your eyes are not commanded for prayer. Do you practice these in your prayer time??
Applying the rules of specific commands and general commands would be something like this:

God gives us a general command to pray. He also gives a specific command in Matt. 6:9. Therefor the only prayer that is commanded and therefor acceptable worship is the Lord's Prayer. However I don't know wether to start my prayer "Our Father who art in heaven" (ASV) or "Our Father which art in heaven" (KJV).

Can someone help me?
 

Bro. Curtis

<img src =/curtis.gif>
Site Supporter
Don said:
Gonna ask this again, since I didn't get an answer from any of the CoC defenders: In the New Testament, what hymns were sung?


Great question.


From Hebrews 2...

9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honor; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.
10 For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons to glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings. 11 For both he that sanctifies and they who are sanctified are all of one: for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brothers,
12 Saying, I will declare your name to my brothers, in the middle of the church will I sing praise to you.


 

TCGreek

New Member
According to the 3rd edition of Bauer, psallo only carries the meaning "to sing" exclusively in modern Greek.

Besides, I find it quite sectarian to build an entire theology around the meaning of one Greek term.

We already have the Psalter to instruct us in worship. The NT documents were not overly occupied with that matter.

So if a church wants to do acappella, fine, and if another wants to do instrumental music, fine, as long as God is being worshiped.
 
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