Sure seems to me that some are determined to make sure God does not get out their "self defined" box. 
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Muslim have dreams about Christ
- Thread starter blessedwife318
- Start date
Are we now going to have to believe the literally thousands of Catholics that give witness to the visible visitations of Mary all over the world too? What about the book of Mormon that says Jesus appeared in America to ancient American's? You say the team was "sure to speak of the fact that the actor was not Jesus nor does Jesus really look like him" and yet Jesus made a visible manifestation contrary to his own physical appearance????????? This is really sounding far fetched!
However, these people were not saved apart from hearing the gospel - right?
What those people have said or done has no bearing on anything Steaver or Ann has told. One has nothing to do with the other nor does it even come close to suggesting that we should believe them. The comparison fails.
convicted1
Guest
Any and all of our beliefs and confessions of faith need to be viewed through the lens of scripture. That's what I am driving at. Do the muslims' confessions conform to them?
THAT is something that only a missionary that is there would know, certainly not someone totally detached from the experience denying the truth(?) of the revelation simply because we don't know what Jesus looked like, or because such dreams are not for our society etc.
As I stated earlier, like J B Phillips' (I think it was him)
book title says -- YOUR GOD IS TOO SMALL
These people were not saved apart from hearing the gospel - but I do think that God prepared them ahead of time for it. This missionary said it was incredible how ready they were - it was like God plowed the earth, fertilized it and had it fully prepared to receive the seed. The growth in the lives there is incredible. All I can tell you is what I was told - these people saw something, were shocked to see it on the screen and then were completely open to hear what the missionaries were saying.
convicted1
Guest
Read up on these dandies....
--John Nichols Thorn
--Arnold Potter
--Jones Very
--Baha'u'llah
--William W. Davies
--Mirza Ghulam Ahmad
--Lou de Palingboer
--John Hugh Smyth-Pigott
--Haile Selassie
--Ernest Norman
--Krishna Venta
--Ahn Sahng-Hong
--Sun Myung Moon
--Jim Jones
--Marshall Applewhite
--Yahweh ben Yahweh
--Laszlo Toth
--Wayne Bent
--Ariffin Mohammed
--Mitsuo Matayoshi
--John Nichols Thorn
--Arnold Potter
--Jones Very
--Baha'u'llah
--William W. Davies
--Mirza Ghulam Ahmad
--Lou de Palingboer
--John Hugh Smyth-Pigott
--Haile Selassie
--Ernest Norman
--Krishna Venta
--Ahn Sahng-Hong
--Sun Myung Moon
--Jim Jones
--Marshall Applewhite
--Yahweh ben Yahweh
--Laszlo Toth
--Wayne Bent
--Ariffin Mohammed
--Mitsuo Matayoshi
You can't assume a Muslim knows nothing about Jesus. Jesus is mentioned frequently in the Qur'an. It even mentions His resurrection!
"Thereupon she pointed to him. They said, 'How can we talk to one who is a child in the cradle?' Jesus said, 'I am a servant of ALLAH. HE has given me the Book, and has made me a Prophet; 'And HE has made me blessed wheresoever I may be, and has enjoined upon me Prayer and almsgiving so long as I live; 'And HE has made me dutiful towards my mother, and has not made me arrogant and graceless; 'And peace was on me the day I was born, and peace will be on me the day I shall die, and the day I shall be raised up to life again.' That was Jesus, son of Mary. This is a statement of the truth concerning which they entertain doubt."—Qur'an, Surah 19:30-35
"Thereupon she pointed to him. They said, 'How can we talk to one who is a child in the cradle?' Jesus said, 'I am a servant of ALLAH. HE has given me the Book, and has made me a Prophet; 'And HE has made me blessed wheresoever I may be, and has enjoined upon me Prayer and almsgiving so long as I live; 'And HE has made me dutiful towards my mother, and has not made me arrogant and graceless; 'And peace was on me the day I was born, and peace will be on me the day I shall die, and the day I shall be raised up to life again.' That was Jesus, son of Mary. This is a statement of the truth concerning which they entertain doubt."—Qur'an, Surah 19:30-35
I find it somewhat amusing that those who hold to total sovereignty of God are limiting what He can do and how He can do it.
Christ presented the gospel to Paul apart from man, and in no place are we told this was a one time thing. Jesus is actually mentioned more times in the Q'ran than Mohammed.
Christ presented the gospel to Paul apart from man, and in no place are we told this was a one time thing. Jesus is actually mentioned more times in the Q'ran than Mohammed.
I was thinking about this as I was shoveling the foot of global warming that fell overnight. There is nothing more lifeless than a stone. I believe the Qur'an to be the stone of religious literature- lifeless and inert. Even the Qur'an cast glimpses into the life and person of Jesus Christ as if even the devil's own writing cannot flee from Him.
Luke 19:39-40 NAS77
39 And some of the Pharisees in the multitude said to Him, "Teacher, rebuke Your disciples."
40 And He answered and said, "I tell you, if these become silent, the stones will cry out!"
The Qur'an intends to steer men away from the truth - it denies Jesus' deity - yet even in the midst of the lie is a kernel of truth. He is acknowledged as a prophet of God, born of a virgin, bodily resurrected and ascended.
Muslims don't dream of Jesus in a vacuum. If they study their Qur'an they have to confront the question of who is this Jesus?
Resource
No kidding.
Yep.
I too have heard of Muslims meeting Jesus in a dream and whole families converting to Christ. In fact, two weeks ago I spoke to a woman who is a missionary to one of the Middle East countries that has been in the news for the last 35 years and she tells me that is a regular experience. She often finds herself speaking to men and women who have had similar dreams of Jesus and are very open to the gospel afterward. Why shouldn't we expect God to go before the missionaries and prepare the way?
If you look in the book of Acts you see a Roman centurion named Cornelius (Acts 10) who had a vision specifying that he should bring Peter (who is staying at Simon the tanner's home by the sea) to his home to hear a message from God. Although it was not a sleeping dream, it was a vision.
Then of course we could go back and look at Abraham/Abram. He was made right with God (Genesis 15:6, Galatians 3, Romans 4) long before there was scripture, the Law, or even circumcision. Paul points out that all of us are to have the faith of Abraham.
A scripture witness is extremely helpful, but the One Who inspired the scriptures is still speaking. Why do we limit His activity to the scripture?
Also amusing is that Calvinists claim that God needs man to participate in disseminating the gospel, yet man has no responsibility or ability to participate in his own regeneration.
God doesn't "need" man but He commands us to go.
Others here would disagree with you.
convicted1
Guest
I don't impugn God's sovereignity whatsoever. He does whatever, whenever, and however He chooses to do it. You guys are the ones who impugn His sovereignity that unless you allow Him to save you, He can't.
Using Paul to support this mystical salvation is an abuse of the scriptures, imo. Paul was also given authority to to write inspired books of the bible, raise them(see Acts 20 and Eutychus). He even had the power to touch garments and those who touched them were healed. None of us had/has that authority. So your Paul claim is baseless to this discussion.
Since the Canons of scripture are closed(see Rev. 22:18,19), the gospel is the only means by which people are saved.
convicted1
Guest
God could have picked the Israelites right up out of Egypt and placed them directly into the promised land, but rather, He chose Moses and Aaron, to do that for Him. They did it through His power.
He uses means to fulfill His purposes, and imo, it ain't via dreams...
Act 2:15 For these are not drunken, as ye suppose, seeing it is but the third hour of the day.
Act 2:16 But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel;
Act 2:17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:
Act 2:18 And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy:
Act 2:19 And I will shew wonders in heaven above, and signs in the earth beneath; blood, and fire, and vapour of smoke:
Act 2:20 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before that great and notable day of the Lord come:
Act 2:21 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved
Act 2:16 But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel;
Act 2:17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:
Act 2:18 And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy:
Act 2:19 And I will shew wonders in heaven above, and signs in the earth beneath; blood, and fire, and vapour of smoke:
Act 2:20 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before that great and notable day of the Lord come:
Act 2:21 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved
quantumfaith
Active Member
I agree with your principle. In a similar way, God could have created the Universe in an instant just as we see it but the natural revelation indicates it is several billion years old as we measure time.
Wow! You turned a thread about Muslim's dreaming about the gospel into evolution. Slick.
convicted1
Guest
To say that this is referring to God saving people in dreams and/or visions is quite a stretch, imo...
The 'great and notable day of the Lord'; what day is this? I ask in all sincerity...