I know you have and you continually misrepresent his view. I know what his view is because I have the same view. You characterize it in a way that fits your agenda. But it is not his intentions.
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Must a sinner repent In order to get saved By the lord?
- Thread starter Yeshua1
- Start date
I know you have and you continually misrepresent his view. I know what his view is because I have the same view. You characterize it in a way that fits your agenda. But it is not his intentions.
and that guarantees heaven for you, right ? well, now, suppose, just suppose you were an Indonesian living in 1st century Java about the time that the Lord was being crucified and his blood being shed and you grew up in an environment and culture where headhunting was a way of life as well as polygamy or polyandry and you didn't know anything about repentance and had a vague idea that somewhere out there is a true God.
you're a goner, right ?
not only you, but millions of others outside of the little town called Jerusalem and a little crowd of 120 men and women who suddenly spoke in unknown tongues, and, oh, yeah, maybe a number of men and women called prophets and prophetesses who came before them.
you're all dead and double dead.
man, what a God that is.
You don't know what you are talking about. In fact if you hold to his view while not holding to Calvinism, you are quite confused.
that view does atte that one MUST make Jesus BOTH our Lord and Saviour, that just being your Saviour is not sufficient to have real salvation from god, correct?
"Let me say again unequivocally that Jesus’ summons to deny self and follow him was an invitation to salvation, not….a second step of faith following salvation" - John MacArthur
"Saving faith is a commitment to leave sin and follow Jesus at all cost. Jesus takes no one unwilling to come on those terms." - John MacArthur
"Anyone who wants to come after Jesus into the Kingdom of God—anyone who wants to be a Christian—has to face three commands: 1) deny himself, 2) take up his cross daily, and 3) follow him.” - John MacArthur
“Thus in a sense we pay the ultimate price for salvation when our sinful self is nailed to a cross. . . . It is an exchange of all that we are for all that Christ is. And it denotes implicit obedience, full surrender to the lordship of Christ. Nothing less can qualify as saving faith.” - John MacArthur
Let the linguistic gymnastics commence to fervently deny he really believes what he says.
"Saving faith is a commitment to leave sin and follow Jesus at all cost. Jesus takes no one unwilling to come on those terms." - John MacArthur
"Anyone who wants to come after Jesus into the Kingdom of God—anyone who wants to be a Christian—has to face three commands: 1) deny himself, 2) take up his cross daily, and 3) follow him.” - John MacArthur
“Thus in a sense we pay the ultimate price for salvation when our sinful self is nailed to a cross. . . . It is an exchange of all that we are for all that Christ is. And it denotes implicit obedience, full surrender to the lordship of Christ. Nothing less can qualify as saving faith.” - John MacArthur
Let the linguistic gymnastics commence to fervently deny he really believes what he says.
Researching it further, does seem to be a reaction to "cheap Grace", the one where a person comes to jesus one time, years ago, but had no evidence of a changed life...
Think overreacted though, as what they are asking a sinner to do is not possible, not until after getting saved by God, and there seems to be no allowance for backsliding, or for periods of sinning, and how much Lordship reuired to really be saved? If 100 %, aren't we asking for "sinless prfection?"
In order to answer this question, we need to find out what repentance is. People sometimes assume that repentance means sorrow or remorse for sins, but the Greek words for "repent" and "repentance" really refer to changing one's mind and direction:
"metanoeo ... To repent, change the mind, relent." (The Complete Word Study Dictionary of the New Testament, Spiros Zodhiates, p.969)
"metanoia ... A change of mind, repentance" (The Complete Word Study Dictionary of the New Testament, Spiros Zodhiates, p.970)
"First they [the people in Acts 2:37-38] were to repent. This verb (metanoesate) means "change your outlook," or "have a change of heart; reverse the direction of your life." This obviously results in a change of conduct, but the emphasis is on the mind or outlook." (The Bible Knowledge Commentary, Walvoord and Zuck, Dallas Theological Seminary, p.359)
"the actual meaning of repentance is simply "to change one's mind." That is all that biblical repentance means. Repentance does not mean, "to feel sorry for one's sins." The Greek word for "repentance" simply means, "to change one's mind."" (The Condition of Salvation )
"metanoeo ... To repent, change the mind, relent." (The Complete Word Study Dictionary of the New Testament, Spiros Zodhiates, p.969)
"metanoia ... A change of mind, repentance" (The Complete Word Study Dictionary of the New Testament, Spiros Zodhiates, p.970)
"First they [the people in Acts 2:37-38] were to repent. This verb (metanoesate) means "change your outlook," or "have a change of heart; reverse the direction of your life." This obviously results in a change of conduct, but the emphasis is on the mind or outlook." (The Bible Knowledge Commentary, Walvoord and Zuck, Dallas Theological Seminary, p.359)
"the actual meaning of repentance is simply "to change one's mind." That is all that biblical repentance means. Repentance does not mean, "to feel sorry for one's sins." The Greek word for "repentance" simply means, "to change one's mind."" (The Condition of Salvation )
If you have no desire for a Lord you can't have the Savior. Romans 10:9 makes that abundantly clear.
Now, is it because one must make Him Lord and Savior or is it that when one desire a true relationship with God this is automatically part of what will happen. However you want to word it. Either way Jesus being Lord is part of the equation that cannot be ignored.
2Co_7:10 For godly grief produces a repentance that leads to salvation without regret, whereas worldly grief produces death.
While your point is technically correct what you fail to include is that repentance and sorry travel like twin sisters. You cannot have one without the other. And we cannot be without either one and have salvation.
I think we are in agreement about this..but I will add...
Sorrow comes before repentance, I agree that repentance is different from sorrow. In fact, it's not necessary to feel sorrow in order to repent, because repentance can also come in response to God's kindness:
Romans 2:4: "Or do you show contempt for the riches of his kindness, tolerance and patience, not realizing that God's kindness leads you toward repentance?"
Notice that if anyone is kind to us then we would be thankful for that kindness. So repentance does not need to involve sorrow or remorse for sins, it simply means that we have changed our mind about God.
Now, consider what needs to happen in order for an unsaved person to have faith in Jesus as his Savior. When he responds to the Gospel message, he changes his mind from his former unbelief about Jesus, and he makes the decision to place his faith in Jesus as his Savior. Notice that an unsaved person cannot have proper faith in Jesus without first having a change of mind about Jesus. That change of mind is repentance, as this Greek dictionary explains:
"Faith is the trustful commitment of oneself to God for forgiveness of sins, deliverance from sin, and victory over sin; but it is impossible to commit oneself thus to God without renouncing and turning away from all that is contrary to God. ... As eternal life is unattainable without faith, faith is unattainable without repentance." (The Complete Word Study Dictionary of the New Testament, Spiros Zodhiates, p.971-972)
This means that repentance is not a separate requirement for salvation in addition to proper faith, because proper faith involves repentance (in other words, proper faith involves a change of mind about Jesus).
When we become saved, do we automatically. from God's point of view, have the Lord jesus received? that he is already BOTH my lord and saviour, but I still need to work out my salvation, so will have times not always following Hima s I should, that he will not always be lord, in that relationship to me always doing his will for my life?
Here you have another begging the question fallacy. You have not established how one leads to other. It is not reasonable to assume that just because scripture says that kindness leads to salvation that sorrow does not, at the same time, come into play.
I thought my last statement summed it up???
This means that repentance is not a separate requirement for salvation in addition to proper faith, because proper faith involves repentance (in other words, proper faith involves a change of mind about Jesus).
When Jesus said believe and repent, he was speaking to the Jews and the Pharisees. What was it they needed to repent of?
They needed to repent of their self righteousness, which they were so caught up in, blinding them to the truth and turn to Christ for righteousness.
We have to do the same thing. If you ask any unbeliever if God will let them into heaven, most will say yes, because they are basically a good person. That's self righteousness. Repentance is realizing that I have NO righteousness and I have to turn to Christ for forgiveness and have HIS righteousness imputed to me.
So yes, one must repent in order to be saved.
They needed to repent of their self righteousness, which they were so caught up in, blinding them to the truth and turn to Christ for righteousness.
We have to do the same thing. If you ask any unbeliever if God will let them into heaven, most will say yes, because they are basically a good person. That's self righteousness. Repentance is realizing that I have NO righteousness and I have to turn to Christ for forgiveness and have HIS righteousness imputed to me.
So yes, one must repent in order to be saved.
Would you agree with me that the lord demands repenting of trying to save ourselves, needing to agree with him that we can do NOTHING save receiving Jesus thru faith, so quit trying to earn/merit salvation?
or would you agree with those who implie means to repent of all known sin, to agree to stop doing what we have been doing wrong first, or else agree to stop doing it once saved totally?
You need to go back and reread my post.
salzer mtn
Well-Known Member
To have a Godly sorrow is a sorrow that you have sinned against God by thoughts words and deeds. David said, i have sinned against thee and thee only. Something must take place in a sinners life to produce Godly sorrow because by nature we hate anything or anyone that rebukes us of our sin's, even God. God is light but sinners love darkness rather than light because their deeds are evil. The bible say's the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance. The Holy Spirit is that goodness that leads and guides us into all truth. Repentance is a change that is wrought in us by the Holy Spirit. Repentance is not a one time thing but a continual grace we have all of our earthly journey. Must a sinner repent in order to be saved ? By the Holy Spirit the spiritual dead are made alive. When we are made alive the light shines in our heart and reveals sin much like a light being turned on in a dark dungeon that reveals all kinds of snakes and creeping things, that have been there all the time but we didn't know it. With this cometh repentance toward God, and the results is faith in the Lord Jesus Christ which would be the day of our salvation, Isa 66:9 Shall i bring to the birth and not cause to bring forth ? saith the Lord: shall i cause to bring forth, and shut up the womb ? saith the Lord.
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I thought that's what I said.
That would be self righteousness. We can't do anything to convince God we deserve salvation.
My post was pretty clear I thought.
Indeed.
Philippians 2:5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
Now that's a change of mind.
HankD
Now that's a change of mind.
HankD
Yep. but that was received AFTER being saved, it seems some want sinners to have that BEFORE able to get saved!