Must you hear the gospel to be saved?

[Jacob_Elliott]

In another thread, a brother and I were discussing whether or not one had to hear the gospel to be saved. I contended that it was necessary based on verses like Rom 10:17, and Eph 1:13. This doesn't contradict Eph 2:8 because I believe hearing the gospel is apart of God's grace.

 

[Tom Butler]

I don't want to limit a sovereign God by putting Him in a box. God can save whom He wants, when He wants, and how He wants.

That said, I point to I Corinthians 1:21, where Paul clearly answers yes to the OP question:

For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.

 

[pinoybaptist]

yes, the gospel must be preached in order to be saved, GOSPELLY.
Read Romans 10 in context and in its entirety.
now, is hearing the gospel a necessary element to eternal salvation, the one authored by Christ at the cross, covenanted on by the One-in-Three in eternity past before the foundation of the world, WITHOUT ANY HUMAN BEING PRESENT, the salvation that healed our stripes, which is often preached from the pulpit (edited. previously stated as "from the gospel) as "by grace, plus nothing, minus nothing" ?
go figure.

 

[Revmitchell]

In another thread, a brother and I were discussing whether or not one had to hear the gospel to be saved. I contended that it was necessary based on verses like Rom 10:17, and Eph 1:13. This doesn't contradict Eph 2:8 because I believe hearing the gospel is apart of God's grace.

I remember Dallas Willard didn't think so.

 

[salzer mtn]

I will have to admit although I was setting in a church house and had been listening to a preacher preach I cannot tell you one thing he said when the Holy Ghost began to deal with me and make me to know I was a black sinner. I had not never been to church enough to know what the word conviction meant. I did not go to an altar, I ran the other way but Gods black dog as Spurgeon called it was on my trail. God saved me a few day's later as I surrendered all to him at my parents home in my bedroom as I got up of my knees, looked up toward heaven and said, Lord I know you can save me if you will, I became born again.

 

[pinoybaptist]

I will have to admit although I was setting in a church house and had been listening to a preacher preach I cannot tell you one thing he said when the Holy Ghost began to deal with me and make me to know I was a black sinner. I had not never been to church enough to know what the word conviction meant. I did not go to an altar, I ran the other way but Gods black dog as Spurgeon called it was on my trail. God saved me a few day's later as I surrendered all to him at my parents home in my bedroom as I got up of my knees, looked up toward heaven and said, Lord I know you can save me if you will, I became born again.

I was "saved" 1973 when although gov't intelligence was said to be looking for me I still worked openly in a private company to support my family. I saw a small Baptist church, got invited to their coming Sunday service, attended and walked forward to the altar to "receive" Christ as my Savior AND to get the New Testament they were giving away.
I was born in Manila, raised speaking Tagalog, and knew next to nothing of the dialect (Cebuano) of that city I was "saved" in but I understood EVERY WORD that came out of that preacher's mouth enough to desire to know Christ through the New Testament.
I went through the motions of the sinner's prayer and it was all I could do to get out of there and start reading the New Testament, and before the next Sunday I KNEW WITHOUT THE SHADOW OF A DOUBT that if Christ had come at that time I am out of here.
Now, is that eternal salvation ?
or was I saved from the godless atheism that I was in at the time, and from the violent end that was waiting at the end of that route.

then, midweek, a neighbor's daughter died, and they were devout Roman Catholics, and they just had their baby daughter baptized a couple of Sundays prior.
Tell me, did that baby go to hell ?

 

[JamesL]

I didn't hear the gospel verbally, I read it in a book:
How You Can Be Sure You Will Spend Eternity With God, by Erwin Lutzer

 

[salzer mtn]

I didn't hear the gospel verbally, I read it in a book:
How You Can Be Sure You Will Spend Eternity With God, by Erwin Lutzer

Between that church service and the evening the Lord saved me my girl friend, now my wife talked to me about the Lord and that evening before God revealed his Son in me I spent a good amount of time reading the scriptures.

 

[salzer mtn]

I was "saved" 1973 when although gov't intelligence was said to be looking for me I still worked openly in a private company to support my family. I saw a small Baptist church, got invited to their coming Sunday service, attended and walked forward to the altar to "receive" Christ as my Savior AND to get the New Testament they were giving away.
I was born in Manila, raised speaking Tagalog, and knew next to nothing of the dialect (Cebuano) of that city I was "saved" in but I understood EVERY WORD that came out of that preacher's mouth enough to desire to know Christ through the New Testament.
I went through the motions of the sinner's prayer and it was all I could do to get out of there and start reading the New Testament, and before the next Sunday I KNEW WITHOUT THE SHADOW OF A DOUBT that if Christ had come at that time I am out of here.
Now, is that eternal salvation ?
or was I saved from the godless atheism that I was in at the time, and from the violent end that was waiting at the end of that route.

then, midweek, a neighbor's daughter died, and they were devout Roman Catholics, and they just had their baby daughter baptized a couple of Sundays prior.
Tell me, did that baby go to hell ?

pinoy, I don't have all the answers, all I know is what God did for me.

 

[JamesL]

Between that church service and the evening the Lord saved me my girl friend, now my wife talked to me about the Lord and that evening before God revealed his Son in me I spent a good amount of time reading the scriptures.

Actually, I probably should revise. I read that book three times. The first two times, I understood what he wrote, but rejected it. The third time, I read it with my bible open, to compare his scripture references. It was only then that I was saved.

 

[pinoybaptist]

pinoy, I don't have all the answers, all I know is what God did for me.

apologies, saltzer. I had no intention of singling you out.
just so we all are clear, anyway, Primitive Baptists never deny one must hear the gospel to be saved, but we do deny that the 'saved' here pertains to eternal salvation.
people can go ahead and quote scripture after scripture, paulician epistle after paulician epistle, and we will go around in circles, because we will keep pointing out that the addressees of these letters and scriptures were ALREADY God's children, a.k.a "sheep", never referred to as "goats", and we will keep on stressing that most of the time the 'salvation' being referred to is not the redemptive, atoning salvation that Christ did at the cross.
That salvation is totally passive, with not one iota of credit for the sinner, and not one iota of demand that God made to the sinner.
That salvation covers all of God's people from the beginning of time to the end of time, and makes no distinction as to theology, creed, race, geography, or chronology, and all the other things that divide God's people here on earth.
The salvation that the child of God gets from hearing the gospel and obeying it, however, has demands and requirements. That salvation requires faith in Christ, repentance, obedience, trust, and all the other things that popular gospel attaches to it.
It is time salvation, or gospel salvation, that requres faith in order to please God, that requires trust in God and Christ in order to be operative in the professing child of God, the lack of which does not prejudice his eternity with Christ in heaven.
If hearing, understanding, and obeying the gospel is necessary for one to be eternally saved, then every parent on this board who have lost babies and infants, or relatives who are mentally challenged since birth, or have become mentally challenged as adults, can kiss these all goodbye and forget about seeing them in heaven.
We might as well all forget about David's baby, also, and admit to damning every one who never had the chance to hear the gospel.
We also can chuck the "God is no respecter of persons' bit because he does respect persons, in other words, He is partial only to those who hear the gospel, and if someboy happens to be born in the tribes of the amazon before missionaries journeyed into it, well, sorry to say, he's in hell.

 

[Jacob_Elliott]

I don't want to limit a sovereign God by putting Him in a box. God can save whom He wants, when He wants, and how He wants.

That said, I point to I Corinthians 1:21, where Paul clearly answers yes to the OP question:

:thumbs: :thumbs:

 

[Jacob_Elliott]

I remember Dallas Willard didn't think so.

Hmm didn't know that. Any idea why he held that position?

 

[Jacob_Elliott]

I will have to admit although I was setting in a church house and had been listening to a preacher preach I cannot tell you one thing he said when the Holy Ghost began to deal with me and make me to know I was a black sinner. I had not never been to church enough to know what the word conviction meant. I did not go to an altar, I ran the other way but Gods black dog as Spurgeon called it was on my trail. God saved me a few day's later as I surrendered all to him at my parents home in my bedroom as I got up of my knees, looked up toward heaven and said, Lord I know you can save me if you will, I became born again.

:thumbs: :godisgood:

 

[Jacob_Elliott]

If hearing, understanding, and obeying the gospel is necessary for one to be eternally saved, then every parent on this board who have lost babies and infants, or relatives who are mentally challenged since birth, or have become mentally challenged as adults, can kiss these all goodbye and forget about seeing them in heaven.
We might as well all forget about David's baby, also, and admit to damning every one who never had the chance to hear the gospel.
We also can chuck the "God is no respecter of persons' bit because he does respect persons, in other words, He is partial only to those who hear the gospel, and if someboy happens to be born in the tribes of the amazon before missionaries journeyed into it, well, sorry to say, he's in hell.

I was more or less with you until here. Obviously David's baby was saved, however I'm not sure we can apply this to people who have lived and experienced God through His creation(just thinking through text). As for the respecter of persons, what if instead of being partial to them because they hear the word, He is partial to them "before the foundation of the world" for reasons He alone knows, and because of this partiality for His beloved He has sovereignly elected them to hear the gospel?

 

[pinoybaptist]

I was more or less with you until here. Obviously David's baby was saved, however I'm not sure we can apply this to people who have lived and experienced God through His creation(just thinking through text).

why do you think David's baby was saved ? on what basis ? the OP said "must you hear the gospel to be saved ?" did David's baby hear the gospel ? he doesn't meet the criteria, does he ?

As for the respecter of persons, what if instead of being partial to them because they hear the word, He is partial to them "before the foundation of the world" for reasons He alone knows, and because of this partiality for His beloved He has sovereignly elected them to hear the gospel?

so, again, how did David's baby hear the gospel ? and what do you propose to do with the millions of souls BEFORE any gospel was preached by the apostles and those who came after them ? if God is a just and merciful God without respect to persons then why should he allow ten people to hear the gospel and not make it possible for ten more standing beside those ten to hear the gospel ?

I hope you see what I'm trying to point out here. we cannot put God in a box, as one poster said, by creating requirements for the eternal salvation of a soul, whom He wants in heaven with him compared to the time salvation of a soul whom He will use on earth to His glory.

 

[Tom Butler]

Read the entire story of the baby's death and David's reaction. He said, "he can't come back to me, but I can go where he is." This is the scriptural basis for an infant's going to heaven.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

What is the Word .....why Jesus is the Word. The gospel points to the Word to communicate and verify.... but the Word is Jesus. We worship the Word. Thats the eternal. You don't get to heaven by worshiping the gospel, you get there by believing and glorifying the Word. The gospel,in this earthly time is a pathway to understanding.:thumbs:

 

[pinoybaptist]

Read the entire story of the baby's death and David's reaction. He said, "he can't come back to me, but I can go where he is." This is the scriptural basis for an infant's going to heaven.

yes, I know, and I agree that this is a sciptural basis, but what if I didn't believe all babies go to heaven ?
couldn't I say, "well, my understanding of that is David meant the grave, not heaven".
and again, if to be saved, the gospel needs to be heard, how did the baby hear the gospel ?

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

yes, I know, and I agree that this is a sciptural basis, but what if I didn't believe all babies go to heaven ?
couldn't I say, "well, my understanding of that is David meant the grave, not heaven".
and again, if to be saved, the gospel needs to be heard, how did the baby hear the gospel ?

Didn't. There are some Reformed who believe that if the father is a saved Christian then his offspring are as well. And in this particular case that child was consieved in sin so.....