"My body, my choice," I believe we can say the same here!

[Yeshua1]

The Christian's primary duty is to be a witness and advocate for the Kingdom of God. That means, Christians should push the President to act righteously in his/her dealings with all nation and all people. If one is not an advocate for the present and future Kingdom of God, then one is not a disciple of Jesus, for that is what He has called us to do.

I refer to the President in His capacity as Chief executive and Commander in Chief, not as Theologian in chief!

 

[Baptist Believer]

Such statements [pointing out “the hypocrisy of the pro-life movement”] are one of the reasons you come across as so arrogant and condescending, or worse.

Right. People don’t like it when their sin is pointed out. They get defensive and attack the one who disturbs their self-satisfaction.

While the anecdote did have a valid point, attributing the hypocrisy to the entire pro-life movement is ludicrous, libelous really.

I didn’t impugn the whole pro-life movement from that incident, but that’s when I “started noticing” the hypocrisy (please read carefully).

From that point onward, I knew of:
(1) “Pro-life” people quietly getting their daughters abortions – I know several women who have told me of their experience.
(2) Unmarried women condemned by their churches for being pregnant, when they could legally get an abortion and not have to face the condemnation.
(3) “Pro-life” people working politically to restrict social service benefits to unmarried pregnant women, thereby increasing the economic pressure to abort.
(4) “Pro-life” people who are only anti-abortion, who do not care about the welfare of children already born into great economic disadvantages, since it will actually cost society something to be “pro-life”, thereby increasing the economic pressure to abort.
(5) “Pro-life” people who are only anti-abortion, since they do not care about the welfare of the refugee, the prisoner, and the poor and impoverished, dismissing it as “social gospel” even though Jesus taught SPECIFICALLY about that, and warned we will be judged according to what we have done, since that reveals whether or not we are disciples (Matthew 25:31-46)

The Republican side of the pro-life movement does a terrible job with #3-5, and in some communities, is bad about #1-2.

By your own standards, it would make you a liar.

Nope, you didn’t read carefully enough – “…started to…” was a crucial part of my statement.

Such a response is not sanctioned by the pro-life movement. I’ve known a great many who support the pro-life movement and all would be horrified by the wrong attitude you described.

I’m glad to hear it. In my own congregation, we purposefully focus on serving the “widows and orphan,” with a special concern for children in foster care and those caught up in human trafficking. We support foster children and some of our families hope to adopt some children and teens out of the foster system.

If, however, you meant it about only some who support the pro-life movement, then you failed miserably at being precise.

No, it was a reading comprehension failure on your side that was undoubtably influenced by your assumption that I have contempt for pro-life people.

But the point is that there is plenty of contempt originating with yourself.

I think you are reading that into my posts.

I don’t have much respect for “pro-lifers” who attack me for not being part of the Donald Trump personality cult, but that’s not specifically an issue with being “pro-life.” I know more than a few pro-life persons who are Democrats, pushing their party to have respect for the unborn, while working to eliminate some of the economic pressures on unmarried women that help create a culture of abortion.

 

[Baptist Believer]

I refer to the President in His capacity as Chief executive and Commander in Chief, not as Theologian in chief!

No, I understood. I was talking about YOUR responsibility as a disciple of Jesus. Did you push former President Trump to allow refugees into the US and not to keep them imprisoned? Did you push former President Trump not to make outrageous claims about refugees, such that they were "terrorists", "rapists", "murderers", and to refrain from attacking persons and groups who were advocates for the welfare of refugees? Did you push former President Trump to abandon his "America First" attitude and realize that everything should not be about money, for the love of money is the root of all kinds of evil?

If you did that things, and others, then you were a faithful witness. If you didn't... I suspect you have failed

 

[canadyjd]

Right. People don’t like it when their sin is pointed out. They get defensive and attack the one who disturbs their self-satisfaction.


I didn’t impugn the whole pro-life movement from that incident, but that’s when I “started noticing” the hypocrisy (please read carefully).

From that point onward, I knew of:
(1) “Pro-life” people quietly getting their daughters abortions – I know several women who have told me of their experience.
(2) Unmarried women condemned by their churches for being pregnant, when they could legally get an abortion and not have to face the condemnation.
(3) “Pro-life” people working politically to restrict social service benefits to unmarried pregnant women, thereby increasing the economic pressure to abort.
(4) “Pro-life” people who are only anti-abortion, who do not care about the welfare of children already born into great economic disadvantages, since it will actually cost society something to be “pro-life”, thereby increasing the economic pressure to abort.
(5) “Pro-life” people who are only anti-abortion, since they do not care about the welfare of the refugee, the prisoner, and the poor and impoverished, dismissing it as “social gospel” even though Jesus taught SPECIFICALLY about that, and warned we will be judged according to what we have done, since that reveals whether or not we are disciples (Matthew 25:31-46)

The Republican side of the pro-life movement does a terrible job with #3-5, and in some communities, is bad about #1-2.


Nope, you didn’t read carefully enough – “…started to…” was a crucial part of my statement.


I’m glad to hear it. In my own congregation, we purposefully focus on serving the “widows and orphan,” with a special concern for children in foster care and those caught up in human trafficking. We support foster children and some of our families hope to adopt some children and teens out of the foster system.


No, it was a reading comprehension failure on your side that was undoubtably influenced by your assumption that I have contempt for pro-life people.


I think you are reading that into my posts.

I don’t have much respect for “pro-lifers” who attack me for not being part of the Donald Trump personality cult, but that’s not specifically an issue with being “pro-life.” I know more than a few pro-life persons who are Democrats, pushing their party to have respect for the unborn, while working to eliminate some of the economic pressures on unmarried women that help create a culture of abortion.

But I don’t see you condemning the pro-baby murder Christians for their stance.

I don’t see you condemning the pro-baby murder crowd that lies to women about how safe abortion is, never revealing the frequent long term physical, mental, and emotional effects.

I never see you condemn the pro-baby murder crowd for putting clinics in poor, mostly minority dominate neighborhoods, fulfilling planned parenthood founder’s racist goal of suppressing black populations.

I never see you condemn anyone but pro-life Christians.

It seems the only people you don’t mind offending is pro-life Christian brethren.

peace to you

 

[Baptist Believer]

But I don’t see you condemning the pro-baby murder Christians for their stance.

Are there some here?

I don’t see you condemning the pro-baby murder crowd that lies to women about how safe abortion is, never revealing the frequent long term physical, mental, and emotional effects.

Are there some here?

I never see you condemn the pro-baby murder crowd for putting clinics in poor, mostly minority dominate neighborhoods, fulfilling planned parenthood founder’s racist goal of suppressing black populations.

Has anyone here done that and not repented of their actions?

I never see you condemn anyone but pro-life Christians.

It seems the only people you don’t mind offending is pro-life Christian brethren.

Are there Christians here who are not pro-life?

Apparently you want me to do the hated "virtue signaling," by condemning people who are not here.

I don't happen to know any pro-choice Christians. If I did, I would approach them personally, not blast it across Baptistboard.

As for taking a few "pro-life" people around here to task for hypocrisy, doesn't "judgment being with the house of God?"

For it is time for judgment to begin with the household of God; and if it begins with us first, what will be the outcome for those who do not obey the gospel of God? And if it is with difficulty that the righteous is saved, what will become of the godless man and the sinner? Therefore, those also who suffer according to the will of God are to entrust their souls to a faithful Creator in doing what is right. - 1 Peter 4:17-19​

 

[RighteousnessTemperance&]

…
I didn’t impugn the whole pro-life movement from that incident, but that’s when I “started noticing” the hypocrisy (please read carefully).

From that point onward, I knew of:
(1) “Pro-life” people quietly getting their daughters abortions – I know several women who have told me of their experience.
(2) Unmarried women condemned by their churches for being pregnant, when they could legally get an abortion and not have to face the condemnation.
(3) “Pro-life” people working politically to restrict social service benefits to unmarried pregnant women, thereby increasing the economic pressure to abort.
(4) “Pro-life” people who are only anti-abortion, who do not care about the welfare of children already born into great economic disadvantages, since it will actually cost society something to be “pro-life”, thereby increasing the economic pressure to abort.
(5) “Pro-life” people who are only anti-abortion, since they do not care about the welfare of the refugee, the prisoner, and the poor and impoverished, dismissing it as “social gospel” even though Jesus taught SPECIFICALLY about that, and warned we will be judged according to what we have done, since that reveals whether or not we are disciples (Matthew 25:31-46) …

Nice try, but you are still dead wrong. Again, you are attributing the actions of some supporters of the pro-life movement with the movement itself. Show me where the movement sanctions the errors you cite. The hypocrisy isn’t that of the pro-life movement. To say so is libelous.

Part of the problem lies in the fact that your interpretation of some political stances is woefully biased. You of all people should be well aware of what a great many pro-abortion people hold, namely that it is far better to finance abortion so they don’t have to pay upkeep for the bastards. And that is not the worst of it, as trafficking in baby parts is big business with the pro-abortion lobby. That is the truth.

 

[canadyjd]

Are there some here?...Are there some here?
...Has anyone here done that and not repented of their actions?...Are there Christians here who are not pro-life?

Apparently you want me to do the hated "virtue signaling," by condemning people who are not here.

I don't happen to know any pro-choice Christians. If I did, I would approach them personally, not blast it across Baptistboard.

So, you don’t want to condemn people who are not on the BaptistBoard (I’m not unsure how you know that)?

At the same time you readily defend people you believe are not on the BaptistBoard.

Salty pointed out the hypocrisy of the pro-baby murder crowd claiming “my body my choice” but then wanting to force others to take a vaccine that has not been fully certified for use (it only has emergency authorization)

He is you defending their position.

It's only hypocrisy if they believe that the unborn life inside a woman is not a person.

What they mean by the phrase is that they have bodily autonomy in an area that does not affect anyone else....

So, apparently you are fully aware of what and how the pro-baby murder crowd thinks and have concluded they are not hypocrites because they don’t believe the baby is a person.

I submit to you they know the baby is a person, even if they have been deceived by Satan into publicly denying it, but that really isn’t the point.

They argue for privacy rights (abortion) when it suits them, but deny those same rights to others not wanting to take the vaccine.

That makes them hypocrites, and I’m surprised you are so quick to defend their position and criticize your brethren.

peace to you

 

[canadyjd]

As for taking a few "pro-life" people around here to task for hypocrisy, doesn't "judgment being with the house of God?

Scripture also speaks of encouraging the brethren and baring each other’s burdens.

I haven’t seen you do that here.

peace to you

 

[canadyjd]

....

Apparently you want me to do the hated "virtue signaling," by condemning people who are not here.

You are attributing to me a motive that is utter nonsense.

There is no virtue in saying something you don’t believe.

Peace to you

 

[SGO]

"Right. People don’t like it when their sin is pointed out. They get defensive and attack the one who disturbs their self-satisfaction."

In him was life;
and the life was the light of men.
John 1:4

Here is what voting for Biden does to human beings:

 

[Baptist Believer]

Nice try, but you are still dead wrong.

And that’s the real issue here. You need me to be wrong.

Again, you are attributing the actions of some supporters of the pro-life movement with the movement itself.

A movement is made up of people. You act as if the "prolife movement" is a specific organization, with bylaws and a policy statement. While there are some organizations that do that, I am speaking of the movement in general, consisting of many people who are NOT part of any specific organization.

Show me where the movement sanctions the errors you cite.

Give me the name of the person or organization that directs all “pro-life” persons to do everything they do.

Part of the problem lies in the fact that your interpretation of some political stances is woefully biased.

Yes, biased toward a “pro-life” stance.

You of all people should be well aware of what a great many pro-abortion people hold, namely that it is far better to finance abortion so they don’t have to pay upkeep for the bastards.

I have never heard a pro-choice person make a statement like that. However, I have heard pro-life seminary students, acquaintances, and Republican “Christians” say things along that line – “If we help women have children out of wedlock, we are subsidizing immorality (aka premarital sex).” and “My tax money shouldn’t go to people who have more children than they can take care of.” Add to that the talk of “welfare queens” who have children by seven different men in order to live off the government.

And that is not the worst of it, as trafficking in baby parts is big business with the pro-abortion lobby. That is the truth.

I am highly cynical of the claims of fetal tissue “trafficking” that have been made because there has been so much dishonesty from some “pro-life” activists about it. What is done with the tissues is a separate issue from the question of abortion.

The truth is that human bodies, and body parts, are used all the time in research and training in healthcare. I know a number of people who donated their bodies to science. Is that immoral? I don’t think so. My deceased nephew’s organs were donated to help other people live better lives. Is that immoral? I don’t think so, quite the opposite.

 

[Baptist Believer]

So, you don’t want to condemn people who are not on the BaptistBoard (I’m not unsure how you know that)?

Do you know of pro-choice people on Baptistboard?

At the same time you readily defend people you believe are not on the BaptistBoard.

Sure. If someone is being unjustly accused, I confront the accuser.

Salty pointed out the hypocrisy of the pro-baby murder crowd claiming “my body my choice” but then wanting to force others to take a vaccine that has not been fully certified for use (it only has emergency authorization)

He is you defending their position.

Not quite. Your logic has failed you. For a Christian to claim "my body, my choice" is hypocritical if they deny that to pro-choice people, since not accepting a vaccine has implications for the health of others.

So, apparently you are fully aware of what and how the pro-baby murder crowd thinks...

I made no such claim. This is what I said:

It's only hypocrisy if they believe that the unborn life inside a woman is not a person.​

(Remember what I said about my habit of being precise with language? I mess up from time to time, but when I'm dealing with controversial issues, I take extra care to chose words carefully.)

...and have concluded they are not hypocrites because they don’t believe the baby is a person.

I still stand by that assessment. I am not saying they are correct, I am saying they may be mistaken.

I submit to you they know the baby is a person, even if they have been deceived by Satan into publicly denying it, but that really isn’t the point.

That's certainly your choice. The world is deceived in many ways, and unfortunately, even Christians are caught up in deceptions.

They argue for privacy rights (abortion) when it suits them, but deny those same rights to others not wanting to take the vaccine.

Can you give me an example of forced COVID-19 vaccination, outside of the military?

That makes them hypocrites, and I’m surprised you are so quick to defend their position and criticize your brethren.

I haven't seen the hypocrisy yet.

Then it happened, when Ahab saw Elijah, that Ahab said to him, “Is that you, O troubler of Israel?”
(1 Kings 18:17)​

 

[Baptist Believer]

Scripture also speaks of encouraging the brethren and baring each other’s burdens.

I haven’t seen you do that here.

I've been doing it here for 20 years. But since most of Baptistboard jumped on the Trump train, I find myself under attack most of the time. It's hard to bear someone else's burden while they are beating you.

 

[Baptist Believer]

You are attributing to me a motive that is utter nonsense.

There is no virtue in saying something you don’t believe.

Well if you don't want me to engage in "virtue signaling," then I need to point you to John 3:16-17:

For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.​

As a disciple, my job is to continue the work of Jesus. Since Jesus is not yet in the business of condemning the world for being lost (and acting like it), I don't see much good at approaching the world with condemnation as my opening message. It is the kindness of God that leads people to repentance (Romans 2:4).

 

[SGO]

No beating now for dead babies.
Whatever compassion you had for them was given to Biden and he aborted it.

For, lo, as soon as the voice of thy salutation sounded in mine ears,
the babe leaped in my womb for joy.
Luke 1:44

 

[RighteousnessTemperance&]

And that’s the real issue here. You need me to be wrong.
...
Yes, biased toward a “pro-life” stance.
...

In my view, you are wrong on this. But if you insist on arguing it your way, then your claim to be pro-life includes you in the pro-life movement and thus its supposed hypocrisy. So be it.

 

[Baptist Believer]

In my view, you are wrong on this. But if you insist on arguing it your way, then your claim to be pro-life includes you in the pro-life movement and thus its supposed hypocrisy. So be it.

The problem with your logic is that I didn't make that claim that EVERYONE in the movement is a hypocrite. That's your interpretation based on issues with your twisted reading of what I wrote.

 

[Yeshua1]

The problem with your logic is that I didn't make that claim that EVERYONE in the movement is a hypocrite. That's your interpretation based on issues with your twisted reading of what I wrote.

Pro Choice is an abomination to God!

 

[canadyjd]

This is what I said:

.....
So, apparently you are fully aware of what and how the pro-baby murder crowd thinks and have concluded they are not hypocrites because they don’t believe the baby is a person.....

peace to you

This is your response:

.....
I made no such claim. This is what I said:

It's only hypocrisy if they believe that the unborn life inside a woman is not a person.​

(Remember what I said about my habit of being precise with language? I mess up from time to time, but when I'm dealing with controversial issues, I take extra care to chose words carefully.)....

This is what you actually said:

It's only hypocrisy if they believe that the unborn life inside a woman is not a person.

What they mean by the phrase is that they have bodily autonomy in an area that does not affect anyone else......

Apparently, being “precise with the language” and taking “extra care to chose words carefully” when dealing with controversial issues doesn’t include accurately repeating your posts.

You left out the part of your quote where you assert......

“What they mean by the phrase is.....”

This prompted my noticing that you seem to know what and how the pro-baby murder crowd thinks.

peace to you

 

[RighteousnessTemperance&]

The problem with your logic is that I didn't make that claim that EVERYONE in the movement is a hypocrite. That's your interpretation based on issues with your twisted reading of what I wrote.

And why would anyone interpret it differently. Here’s what you said:

… That’s when I started noticing the hypocrisy of the pro-life movement – many will get angry at an unmarried pregnant woman for her “sin” and shun her, so women who get pregnant out-of-wedlock learn that the church has nothing but condemnation for her, so they get an abortion to avoid the shame and trouble….

If you say you didn’t mean it the way it’s written, that’s better than otherwise. But you directly attached the hypocrisy to “the pro-life movement” itself, not just to some pro-lifers. That’s not me twisting your words.

Would you similarly write of Christianity, “That’s when I started noticing the hypocrisy of Christianity – many will …”? There is no hypocrisy in Christianity, even though some Christians may exhibit hypocrisy. Some attached to Christianity may even be hypocrites, but that still does not make it "the hypocrisy of Christianity."