"My body, my choice," I believe we can say the same here!

[RighteousnessTemperance&]

The problem with your logic is that I didn't make that claim that EVERYONE in the movement is a hypocrite. …

BTW, we differ on some other wording in significant ways. For example, if someone says something you believe to be wrong, you seem quite quick to call them a liar, whereas, even if I said someone told a lie, it does not follow that I am labeling them a liar.

Similarly, while I might label an abortionist a murderer because of his regular, unrepentant practice of intentionally killing supposedly unwanted babies in the womb, I would not necessarily attach the label to the mothers of his victims who may very well be victims too, though much less often of murder.

 

[Baptist Believer]

This is what you actually said:

"What they mean by the phrase is that they have bodily autonomy in an area that does not affect anyone else......"

Okay, I'm sorry, I misunderstood your point.

You had asserted: "So, apparently you are fully aware of what and how the pro-baby murder crowd thinks..."
I thought you were referring to the first part of my previous statement, since you had concerns about hypocrisy.

But yes, I am aware of the arguments both for and against abortion. I have studies and continue to study the issue and viewpoints that are expressed. I have also read Roe v. Wade, and bodily autonomy and privacy are key points of the decision.

Why is it a bad thing to know other viewpoints?

Apparently, being “precise with the language” and taking “extra care to chose words carefully” when dealing with controversial issues doesn’t include accurately repeating your posts.

It was a simple error of not understanding your area of concern.

This prompted my noticing that you seem to know what and how the pro-baby murder crowd thinks.

Sure.

I generally know how Mormons think. I've talked to many, I've done a fair amount of reading in their sacred books, and I've conversed with them online. I was certified as an Interfaith Witness associate in Mormonism by the Southern Baptist Convention years ago. I've had the privilege of leading a Mormon out of that cult.

What is wrong with that?

I generally know the way atheists think. I talk to many of them. I have read and interacted with their arguments. I have a number of friends who are atheists, and some now believers.

What is wrong with that?

I understand the world of occultists, although rational thought is not their forte. I have previously talked to a modest number of them and interacted with their claims. I have had the privilege of leading a few out of that world to Christ. I was certified as an Interfaith Witness associate in Occult and New Age Religions by the Southern Baptist Convention years ago.

What is wrong with that?

In seminary, I took a Contemporary American Cults class from Dr. James Leo Garrett where we studied all kinds of movements, learning what they believe and how they practice their religion.

What is wrong with that?

I am here, talking with many people with whom I disagree on some things. I'm trying to figure out what you believe and learn, perhaps changing my own viewpoint.

What is wrong with that?

 

[Baptist Believer]

Would you similarly write of Christianity, “That’s when I started noticing the hypocrisy of Christianity – many will …”?

No, but I would write, "That's when I started noticing the hypocrisy of many Christian organizations."

There is no hypocrisy in Christianity, even though some Christians may exhibit hypocrisy. Some attached to Christianity may even be hypocrites, but that still does not make it "the hypocrisy of Christianity."

I see your point. That's a fair critique. I wasn't quite as precise as I needed to be.

 

[Baptist Believer]

BTW, we differ on some other wording in significant ways. For example, if someone says something you believe to be wrong, you seem quite quick to call them a liar, whereas, even if I said someone told a lie, it does not follow that I am labeling them a liar.

Normally, I am not quick to call someone a liar. However, on this topic, there has been a poster who has been harassing me, making up false claims, and attacking me both in public and in private messages. For some reason, I don't like being called a "baby murderer," so I have a short fuse on this subject at the moment.

Similarly, while I might label an abortionist a murderer because of his regular, unrepentant practice of intentionally killing supposedly unwanted babies in the womb, I would not necessarily attach the label to the mothers of his victims who may very well be victims too, though much less often of murder.

I completely agree with this, although others in this discussion may now start attacking you since I have been under fire for this view for several days.

 

[canadyjd]

.....But yes, I am aware of the arguments both for and against abortion....

Why is it a bad thing to know other viewpoints?...

I generally know how Mormons think..... What is wrong with that?

I generally know the way atheists think.....What is wrong with that?

I understand the world of occultists,.... What is wrong with that?... What is wrong with that?...?

More information is always better, imo. It helps to be able to accurately state the opposition viewpoints.

However, I’ve never seen you “call out” Christian brethren and accuse them of hypocrisy for their opposition to Mormonism, atheism, or occultists.

As for the rest of what you said. Misunderstandings happen. No problem.

peace to you

 

[RighteousnessTemperance&]

No, but I would write, "That's when I started noticing the hypocrisy of many Christian organizations."

I see your point. That's a fair critique. I wasn't quite as precise as I needed to be.

Normally, I am not quick to call someone a liar. However, on this topic, there has been a poster who has been harassing me, making up false claims, and attacking me both in public and in private messages. For some reason, I don't like being called a "baby murderer," so I have a short fuse on this subject at the moment.

I completely agree with this, although others in this discussion may now start attacking you since I have been under fire for this view for several days.

Well, if you're going to start agreeing with me, what am I going to do for fun?

Seriously, our similarities should outweigh our differences by a very wide margin. And where and why we disagree will likely have much more to do with honest differences in emphasis and interpretation and experience rather than any supposed inherent reading comprehension problem.

I'm a skeptic at heart, but "[j]ust because [I'm] paranoid doesn't mean they aren't after [me]."

 

[SGO]

and attacking me both in public and in private messages. For some reason, I don't like being called a "baby murderer," so I have a short fuse on this subject at the moment.

By the way, pms are supposed to be private.

The shoes fit on two feet.


"baby murderer,"

When did I use that term?

Thou hast said.

Cursed be he that taketh reward to slay an innocent person.
And all the people shall say, Amen.
Deuteronomy 27:25


Are you holding the knife?
No.

Accessory.

You knew Biden's and the Democratic party's platform for "a woman's right to choose", is a euphemism to commit murderous abortion.
You know that, yet you sacrificed babies' lives to "show compassion" for those that are walking on the earth.

Your legacy:

 

[Baptist Believer]

However, I’ve never seen you “call out” Christian brethren and accuse them of hypocrisy for their opposition to Mormonism, atheism, or occultists.

I would call out someone for saying something inaccurate or malicious against Mormons, atheists, occultists, etc.

I’ve never called out anyone for their opposition to abortion. It’s always for something beyond that.

 

[canadyjd]

......

I’ve never called out anyone for their opposition to abortion. It’s always for something beyond that.

I don’t understand your position in this OP.

The question is... isn’t it hypocritical for those who claim, “my body my choice” to deny the same to those who don’t want to take the vaccine?

On its face, the answer “yes” seems very clear.

Yet, you used the OP to defend the pro-baby murder crowd (not hypocrites) and criticize brethren in Christ (are hypocrites).

Peace to you

 

[Baptist Believer]

I don’t understand your position in this OP.

The question is... isn’t it hypocritical for those who claim, “my body my choice” to deny the same to those who don’t want to take the vaccine?

On its face, the answer “yes” seems very clear.

Who is denying the legal right for COVID-19 vaccine rejectors to abstain from the vaccine, as is trying to change the law?

 

[canadyjd]

Who is denying the legal right for COVID-19 vaccine rejectors to abstain from the vaccine, as is trying to change the law?

The Dems would mandate it by law, if they could, and may try anyway.

There are efforts to mandate “vaccine passports” (by state or private entities) to use certain services or go into businesses or to get our children back into school.

Not to mention the attempt to shame or intimidate those who have questions concerning the vaccine.

I’ve heard people say we can only get our “freedoms” back if everyone gets the vaccine, and then change the argument that we cannot get back to “normal” until the whole world is vaccinated.

Almost all of the effort is coming from the same crowd that says “my body my choice”. Clearly hypocritical.

peace to you

 

[Baptist Believer]

The Dems would mandate it by law, if they could, and may try anyway.

So no one has done it, but your prejudice against Democrats assures you that "they" would do it. That's not evidence, just a window into the way you think.

There are efforts to mandate “vaccine passports” (by state or private entities) to use certain services or go into businesses or to get our children back into school.

And what's the problem with that? For private entities, that's their right. For public entities, they are operating underneath the "promote the general welfare" clause of the US Constitution. The fact that you don't like it is irrelevant. Don't send your children to public school or use private businesses that require it.

Not to mention the attempt to shame or intimidate those who have questions concerning the vaccine.

Isn't it nice that no one has ever picketed an abortion clinic or used the term "baby murderers?" Oh wait...

I’ve heard people say we can only get our “freedoms” back if everyone gets the vaccine, and then change the argument that we cannot get back to “normal” until the whole world is vaccinated.

There's a lot of truth in that. We have to build up herd immunity one way or another. Our choices are massive numbers of deaths (we've already had plenty of that, and are lined up for more), or a high level of vaccinations. What's the "pro-life" position?

Almost all of the effort is coming from the same crowd that says “my body my choice”. Clearly hypocritical.

I think you need to take a long hard look in the mirror and repeat the arguments you have made to yourself and see what is truly hypocritical.

 

[canadyjd]

So no one has done it, but your prejudice against Democrats assures you that "they" would do it. That's not evidence, just a window into the way you think.


And what's the problem with that? For private entities, that's their right. For public entities, they are operating underneath the "promote the general welfare" clause of the US Constitution. The fact that you don't like it is irrelevant. Don't send your children to public school or use private businesses that require it.


Isn't it nice that no one has ever picketed an abortion clinic or used the term "baby murderers?" Oh wait...


There's a lot of truth in that. We have to build up herd immunity one way or another. Our choices are massive numbers of deaths (we've already had plenty of that, and are lined up for more), or a high level of vaccinations. What's the "pro-life" position?


I think you need to take a long hard look in the mirror and repeat the arguments you have made to yourself and see what is truly hypocritical.

What’s wrong with it? It is not based on the science. It destroys liberty and businesses. It hurts our children and grandchildren. It is purely a power grab by those with a radical liberal leftest/socialist ideology that hate America.

It’s not based on science.

peace to you

 

[Baptist Believer]

What’s wrong with it? It is not based on the science.

We definitely have different views on “the science.”

My understanding of “the science” comes from my experience with health experts and their studies, not Google searches, right-wing websites, and political pundits on television and radio.

It destroys liberty and businesses.

“It” (whatever you specifically mean by that) does not force you to do anything. You can participate in society or not. You can choose to engage with certain business or not.

It hurts our children and grandchildren.

So does death and disease.

It is purely a power grab by those with a radical liberal leftest/socialist ideology that hate America.

“Purely a power grab”?

Do you believe that there has been a pandemic? If so, then it is “pro-life” to respond to it as effectively as we can.

If you don’t believe there has been a pandemic, I can show you the graves of more than a half dozen people I knew who were specifically killed by it.

It’s not based on science.

You keep using the word “science.” What does it mean to you?

 

[Alcott]

By the way, pms are supposed to be private.

Indeed. I once was getting a haircut and was the only customer in the shop with 3 women barbers who talked about that subject so overtly I had the idea they thought I was a dead body.

 

[SGO]

Scientific compassion.
Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee...
Jeremiah 1:5

 

[canadyjd]

We definitely have different views on “the science.”...

Do you believe that there has been a pandemic? If so, then it is “pro-life” to respond to it as effectively as we can....

You keep using the word “science.” What does it mean to you?

We must respond to this virus honestly, not politically.

The virus and response to it has been politicized from the beginning and continues to be so.

Those who hold to radical liberal leftest ideology corrupt everything they touch, especially science, in order to advance their agenda of gaining power.

peace to you

 

[just-want-peace]

We must respond to this virus honestly, not politically.

The virus and response to it has been politicized from the beginning and continues to be so.

Those who hold to radical liberal leftest ideology corrupt everything they touch, especially science, in order to advance their agenda of gaining power.

peace to you

Anyone who looks at the THEN response from the dems when the bug first hit, and compares their reactions since 01/20/‘21, can (should anyway) tell the total reversals of talk/action/publicity etc in a manner that RETAINS POWER OVER CITIZENS

Correct on the left having a “reverse Midas touch”!!!!!

 

[Baptist Believer]

We must respond to this virus honestly, not politically.

Yes. So why do you keep bringing up politics?

The virus and response to it has been politicized from the beginning and continues to be so.

Yes, former President Trump made it political with his disinformation campaign, as well as his refusal to wear a mask after it was STRONGLY recommended. He stated immediately that HE wasn't going to wear one, so his personality cult followed his example.

Those who hold to radical liberal leftest ideology corrupt everything they touch...

And you bring up politics AGAIN -- Just after saying we shouldn't? Talk about a hypocrite!

...especially science, in order to advance their agenda of gaining power.

Your political biases are making it impossible for you to think rationally.

 

[Baptist Believer]

What I have learned from this thread:

(1) Many "pro-life" people seem to be anti-abortion only, unable to rationally think about the issues and dragging politics and their prejudices into the argument.
(2) Some here seem to be "pro-life" as a means of "owning the libs" or attacking others who don't use the "baby murderer" language.
(3) Some, like RighteousnessTemperance&, seen to have real convictions and the ability to articulate them in a responsible way.
(4) This thread has made me even more cynical about the "pro-life" movement. If wasn't for RighteousnessTemperance&, I not sure where I would be.