My Outline of Endtime Events for 2006 Study

[Mel Miller]

DeafPostTRib,

I notice you have not responded to my post of
Jan.18, 11:04 AM regarding God's purpose for
the future of Jacob.

Is that because you believe:

"There is none passage find anywhere in the Bible saying that there shall be a literal one thousand years beyond Christ's coming" ??

Mel www.lastday.net

 

[Me4Him]

I told one "Christian lady":

"The Rapture could happen at any moment".

She responded,

"Lord I hope not, what will I do with all my stuff"???

Even among Christians, most don't like the idea that "judgment" is near and this life will be finished, so prophecy about the "end times" is "ignored" by most, I suppose hoping it will "go away".

"No one knows when the end of time is coming",

is a statement most often made by the "HOPE" in the person that you are wrong when you say the "end is near" rather than their "biblical knowledge".

"Very few" would rather be "Absent from the body and present with the lord".

That, in it's self, is a "sign", the "end is near". (falling away)

 

[Mel Miller]

Me4Him,

The saying, "The Rapture may occur any moment",
is obviously not what Jesus meant when He said:
"No one knows the day or the hour" of His coming.

Just three verse before making this statement,
Jesus specified that, immediately after the great tribulation, at the signs of His coming,
believers will "know it is near; even at the
doors". Matt.24:33. Even the Jews will "know
their redemption and kingdom are near and will stand erect, look up and pray to escape all
these things and to prevail in standing before the Son of Man". Luke 21:28,31,36.

At no time, even "in the days right after the Great Tribulation", will anyone know the exact day of His coming. It will be one of the 3 1/2 days the Two Prophets lie dead in Jerusalem; but only God knows which day the last martyr dies!

What amazes me, my friend, is the constant reference people make to current signs that seem to show His coming is near and yet their failure
to acknowledge the "signs" to look for include what we all know will happen "in the days after the great tribulation".

There are specific signs that must take place,
after the Two Prophets complete their 1260-day
task, which signal that Christ's coming must then occur AT ANY MOMENT!!

Believers need to recognize the reason Jesus
made this statement. When the Beast kills the
Two Witnesses, they will remember that Jesus
requires them to "be faithful unto death" and
they will remember He said "some must taste death (even) after they see God's Kingdom
having come in Power" for 1260 days through
the Two Prophets. Mark 9:1; Rev.12:10-11.

Mel

 

[rbell]

Good discussion here.

I had a former pastor teach a year-long series on Revelation. One of his deacons asked, "Pastor, what if Jesus comes back this year? What will happen to the study?"

My pastor replied, "Then you finish teaching it."

 

[Mel Miller]

rbell,

That sentiment is something like: "When we are
caught up by Jesus, I'll just say `I told you so'" as if there's no question about who is right or wrong.

Another sentiment we have all heard is that, "no
matter whether it's Pre or Post, it will all pan
out in the end". The "seeker" wants answers.

My aim is to stimulate discussion over why I believe the Day of the Lord, the Day of God's and the Lamb's wrath, is no more than a single 12-Hour Day in which 100 verses of Revelation will be fulfilled on the Day Christ is revealed!

The concept of that Day being the tribulation period of 7 years, in my mind, not only makes
the Day of the Lord 1007 years instead of 1000 years; but it doesn't deal with the fact that Jesus limited that "day" to "one of the days after the great tribulation". Mark 13:24.

Revelation also places the Day of God's Wrath
"in the days" after the Two Witnesses "finish their task" that ends within 3 1/2 days of the 7th Trumpet!

Please don't think I disrespect your humor;
but I like to challenge everyone to wonder
why people make statements that do not settle
questions that we all must face . . . mostly
like why Jesus said that "some must face death after they have seen God's Kingdom having come
in power" (with two perfect participles in
Mark 9:1) that caused a great theologian and
missionary, Alfred Schweitzer, to almost lose
his faith over whether Jesus did or did not
know His coming was "near".

Even Rev.12:5 states His coming to rule the
nations was "about to occur" when He was
caught up into heaven. Amillennialists take
this to mean that He is ruling the nations
through the Church NOW.

We need to realize Jesus made a difference
between His coming in Endtime Kingdom Power
before He comes in Person. He took three
disciples to a mountain a week after making
this statement to show them what it will be
like when the Two Witnesses come to prepare
us and His former people, Israel, for His
coming in Person and in Glory.

Christians are not yet ready to "love not
their life unto death" during the "NOW of
God's Kingdom Power and Christ's Authority"
Rev.12:10-11.

Mel at www.lastday.net

 

[rbell]

Mel,

Thanks, but actually my post was just a funny thing that happened in church one Sunday. Nothing more.

I do believe that since the End of the Age is beyond our control, it is therefore none of our business. We are to be wise, and be faithful. The end of the world might be near or far; the end of MY world could come at any moment.

I'm not saying that end times discussions aren't fascinating, and that striving to know more isn't a good thing...but when the preoccupation with the signs of the end overshadow the mandate given by Jesus, then we miss the point.

Peace,

RB

 

[Me4Him]

Originally posted by Mel Miller:
[QB] Me4Him,

The saying, "The Rapture may occur any moment",
is obviously not what Jesus meant when He said:
"No one knows the day or the hour" of His coming.

Just three verse before making this statement,
Jesus specified that, immediately after the great tribulation, at the signs of His coming,
believers will "know it is near; even at the
doors". Matt.24:33. Even the Jews will "know
their redemption and kingdom are near and will stand erect, look up and pray to escape all
these things and to prevail in standing before the Son of Man". Luke 21:28,31,36.

Matt 24 is written to Israel, not the church, the "end of the world" is when Jesus "physically" returns, seven year prior is the rapture, he doesn't "return" to the earth then, we meet him "in the air" and return to heaven for the duration of the trib.

At no time, even "in the days right after the Great Tribulation", will anyone know the exact day of His coming. It will be one of the 3 1/2 days the Two Prophets lie dead in Jerusalem; but only God knows which day the last martyr dies!

What amazes me, my friend, is the constant reference people make to current signs that seem to show His coming is near and yet their failure
to acknowledge the "signs" to look for include what we all know will happen "in the days after the great tribulation".

There are specific signs that must take place,
after the Two Prophets complete their 1260-day
task, which signal that Christ's coming must then occur AT ANY MOMENT!!

Read the above post, the church isn't here during the trib.

Believers need to recognize the reason Jesus
made this statement. When the Beast kills the
Two Witnesses, they will remember that Jesus
requires them to "be faithful unto death" and
they will remember He said "some must taste death (even) after they see God's Kingdom
having come in Power" for 1260 days through
the Two Prophets. Mark 9:1; Rev.12:10-11.

Mel

The "Beast" is given 1260 days, (42 months) these begin on the day of the "Abomination of Desolation".

 

[Mel Miller]

Me4Him,

I always give Scripture to support when I believe
the END will come. Jesus promised to be with us
to the "END of the age".

If your following statement were true, He must come for us 7 years before the "END of the Age"!

Your Statement:
_______________________________________________
"Matt 24 is written to Israel, not the church, the "end of the world" (Age in Greek) is when Jesus "physically" returns, seven year prior is the rapture, he doesn't "return" to the earth then, we meet him "in the air" and return to heaven for the duration of the trib".
_______________________________________________

I look for your Scripture to support that Jesus
is NOT going to wait until the END of the Age
to "raise up every believer on the last day AND
to gather the elect from all extremities of the
earth to all extremities of heaven AND He will
send the angels to gather these elect out of all
extremities of the heavenS immediately after the
great tribulation". John 6:40 (not written to
Israel); Mark 13:27; Matt.24:31.

I think you will find that NO Scripture supports
your view that Christ raises up all believers,
as you put it, "seven years befoe He returns to
the earth". The last day occurs at the END of
the Age. Jesus promised to be WITH US until the
END of the Age. Matt.28:20.
Mel www.lastday.net

 

[Mel Miller]

RB,

I am responding to your concern that we miss the
point if and "when the preoccupation with the signs of the end overshadow the mandate given by Jesus, for then we miss the point".

The Mandate of Jesus is that we prove we are
worthy by being willing to die for Him but "some will not taste death, by any means, until after they have seen God's kingdom power (and Christ's authority) having come" through the Two Prophets for 1260 days. Mark 9:1; Rev.12:10-11.

Once the Endtime begins, the preoccupation of
every Believer will be focussed on preparation
for the return of Jesus in both "glory and in
power". The reason for this focus has been lost
to this generation of "lukewarm" Saints:

Jesus took His 3 closest Disciples to the Mt.
of Transfiguration a week after making the above
statement to reveal that Endtime anticipation of
His coming in "glory" as well as power depends
on sending His Two Witnesses from heaven to
demonstrate His power and prepare Believers to
be worthy to meet Him face to face. Mark 8:38.

We will be focused and be reminded that "some
must still taste death" even after the Two
Prophets finish their task and only a few days
remain until Christ comes in "glory and power".

Thanks for the opportunity to enlarge on this.
Mel

 

[Me4Him]

Originally posted by Mel Miller:
Me4Him,

I always give Scripture to support when I believe
the END will come. Jesus promised to be with us
to the "END of the age".

If your following statement were true, He must come for us 7 years before the "END of the Age"!

Your Statement:
_______________________________________________
"Matt 24 is written to Israel, not the church, the "end of the world" (Age in Greek) is when Jesus "physically" returns, seven year prior is the rapture, he doesn't "return" to the earth then, we meet him "in the air" and return to heaven for the duration of the trib".
_______________________________________________

I look for your Scripture to support that Jesus
is NOT going to wait until the END of the Age
to "raise up every believer on the last day AND
to gather the elect from all extremities of the
earth to all extremities of heaven AND He will
send the angels to gather these elect out of all
extremities of the heavenS immediately after the
great tribulation". John 6:40 (not written to
Israel); Mark 13:27; Matt.24:31.

I think you will find that NO Scripture supports
your view that Christ raises up all believers,
as you put it, "seven years befoe He returns to
the earth". The last day occurs at the END of
the Age. Jesus promised to be WITH US until the
END of the Age. Matt.28:20.
Mel www.lastday.net

Matt 22, the "KING" invited the "JEWS" to the "Lamb's marriage supper", but they refuse to "COME", therefore they are "left behind" when the "Bridegroom" comes for his "BRIDE". (rapture)

I think you will find that NO Scripture supports
your view that Christ raises up all believers,
as you put it, "seven years befoe He returns to
the earth".

I think you have the link to where I posted my material, if not, I'll repost it again, but you'll find more reasons there for a "pre trib rapture" than you can/have "imagined".


Don't forget the "TRINITY" when "interpreting scripture".

 

[Mel Miller]

Me4Him,

I am wondering why you gave me the parable about
those who refused to come to the Banquet as a
Scripture proving the Rapture occurs 7 years
before the "END of the Age"?

Respectfully, I am STILL waiting for you to support that Jesus is NOT going to wait until the END of the Age to "raise up every believer on the last day".

I am STILL waiting for you to show He will NOT "gather the elect from all extremities of the earth to all extremities of heaven on one of the days after the tribulation".

I am STILL wating for your Scripture (not just
reasons) provine "He will NOT send the angels to gather these elect out of all extremities of the heavenS immediately after the
great tribulation".

John 6:40 was not written to the Jews. NOR was
Mark 13:27 and Matt.24:31 if the Elect refers
to Believers.

If the "Elect" are only JEWS

 

[Mel Miller]

Me4Him,

I should continue:

"If the Elect are only JEWS" who refuse to come
to the Lamb's marriage supper, why would Jesus "gather them from earth to heaven and leave Believers behind"?

How does your Scripture from Matt.22 disprove
that Jesus will "raise up ALL believers on the
last day and gather them from earth to heaven"?

Those who are "invited to the Lamb's wedding
supper" (but not to the wedding) will be the Jews who "pray to escape all these things and prevail to stand before the Son of Man".
Luke 21:36.

Mel www.lastday.net

 

[Me4Him]

Originally posted by Mel Miller:
Me4Him,

I am wondering why you gave me the parable about
those who refused to come to the Banquet as a
Scripture proving the Rapture occurs 7 years
before the "END of the Age"?

The Parable of the King making a wedding for his son, is about Jesus and the Jews rejecting him and the Gospel being taken to "another people" to make Israel, Jealous.

The Jews enter the trib as part of their Chastisement for rejecting Jesus, they are not part of the "BRIDE" (Church) he weds during the trib, the marriage "Celebration" for the Jews come in the "THIRD DAY' in "Cana".

Respectfully, I am STILL waiting for you to support that Jesus is NOT going to wait until the END of the Age to "raise up every believer on the last day".

Only the Church (Bride) leaves in the rapture, as I said above, those saved during the trib will join the "wedding celebration" in the "Third day" in Cana". (MK)

I am STILL waiting for you to show He will NOT "gather the elect from all extremities of the earth to all extremities of heaven on one of the days after the tribulation".

In the rapture, only "Believers" (Church) will leave, there are other "left behind" who will be saved during the trib.

I am STILL wating for your Scripture (not just
reasons) provine "He will NOT send the angels to gather these elect out of all extremities of the heavenS immediately after the
great tribulation".

In the rapture, Jesus comes himself, he doesn't send "Angels", they reap when Jesus "physically returns" to the earth.

John 6:40 was not written to the Jews. NOR was
Mark 13:27 and Matt.24:31 if the Elect refers
to Believers.

If the "Elect" are only JEWS

The "rapture" occurs "pre trib", Jesus reaps.
The "First resurrection" occur "Post trib", Angels reap.

The "Rapture" and "First Resurrection" "MARK" the "Beginning" and "End" of the trib period.

 

[Me4Him]

Originally posted by Mel Miller:
Me4Him,

I should continue:

"If the Elect are only JEWS" who refuse to come
to the Lamb's marriage supper, why would Jesus "gather them from earth to heaven and leave Believers behind"?

How does your Scripture from Matt.22 disprove
that Jesus will "raise up ALL believers on the
last day and gather them from earth to heaven"?

Those who are "invited to the Lamb's wedding
supper" (but not to the wedding) will be the Jews who "pray to escape all these things and prevail to stand before the Son of Man".
Luke 21:36.

Mel www.lastday.net

Go to the link posted below and scroll down to the "tribulaton Period", it explains why Israel enters the trib and the church doesn't.

http://www.baptistboard.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php/topic/28/3398.html

Jeus suffer the "Stripes" of our chastisement in "HIS FLESH", However Israel rejected Jesus, therefore they will suffer "STRIPES" in their flesh, (be killed) from the "ROD" (AC) God uses to "Chastise them".

Did you ever get a whipping with a "Switch/Belt" when growing up, it leaves "Stripes" in your flesh, God uses the AC as a "ROD" to beat Israel for rejecting Jesus.

 

[Mel Miller]

Me4Him,

I am still waiting for Scripture, NOT arguments.

Yes, I know all your arguments. I held to a Pre-
Trib Rapture tenaciously over 60 years ago, and like you, didn't have the Scriptures to prove that Jesus will NOT come to Rapture the Elect from earth to heaven on the last day ... the
only Day He is revealed from heaven .... the
only Day He will come for and with His Bride.


Mel www.lastday.net

 

[Ed Edwards]

Mel Miller: // I held to a Pre-
Trib Rapture tenaciously over 60 years ago, and like
you, didn't have the Scriptures to prove that Jesus
will NOT come to Rapture the Elect from earth to heaven on the last day ... the
only Day He is revealed from heaven .... the
only Day He will come for and with His Bride.//

The following is NOT a judgement, only a suggestion.
Only the individual can judge such things for themselves.

In the great pretribulation rapture passage of 2 Thessalonians chapter 2
the Bible says:

2 Thessalonians 2:15 (KJV1611 Edition):
Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which yee
haue beene taught, whether by word or our Epistle.

Not standing fast to that which your fore-saints taught you is
apostasy (abandoning the truth).
Why did your fore-saints hope in the pre-tribulation rapture?

 

[Me4Him]

Originally posted by Mel Miller:
Me4Him,

I am still waiting for Scripture, NOT arguments.

Yes, I know all your arguments. I held to a Pre-
Trib Rapture tenaciously over 60 years ago, and like you, didn't have the Scriptures to prove that Jesus will NOT come to Rapture the Elect from earth to heaven on the last day ... the
only Day He is revealed from heaven .... the
only Day He will come for and with His Bride.


Mel www.lastday.net

Follow the link, tooo much to "retype", beside I'm "lazy".

 

[Mel Miller]

Ed and Me4Him,

The criteria of truth is what Jesus taught.

He taught that He will "raise up every/all those
who believe on the last day". John 6:38-40,44,54.
Jesus stated over and over: "This is My Father's
will"!!

He taught that He will "gather the elect from earth to heaven on one of the days immediately
after the great tribulation and will send the
angels to gather them out of the heavens".
Mark 13:24-27; Matt.24:31.

Are you asking me to place the "traditions which yee haue beene taught" above the word of the
Lord"? Am I supposed to go to some other site,
instead of the Scriptures, to find the truth?

Is it too much to "retype" God's holy word??
Mel

 

[Ed Edwards]

Mel Miller: //He taught that He will "raise up every/all those
who believe on the last day". John 6:38-40,44,54.//

God taught through the Disciple John:

Revelation 20:4-6 (KJV1611 Edition):
And I saw thrones, and they sate vpon them, and iudgement was giuen vnto them: & I saw the soules of them that were beheaded for the witnesse of Iesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had receiued his marke vpon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they liued and reigned with Christ a thousand yeeres.
But the rest of the dead liued not againe vntill the thousand yeeres were finished. This is the first resurrection.
Blessed & holy is he that hath part in ye first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be Priests of God, and of Christ, and shall reigne with him a thousand yeeres.

The just are raised on that 'day' of 1,000 years at
the beginning of the day; the unjust are raised on that
'day' of 1,000 years at the end of the day.

God taught through the Prophet Daniel:

Dan 12:1 (KJV1611 Edition):
And at that time shall Michael stand vp, the great Prince which standeth for the children of thy people, and there shalbe a time of trouble, such as neuer was since there was a nation, euen to that same time: and at that time thy people shalbe deliuered, euery one that shalbe found written in the booke.
2 And many of them that sleepe in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to euerlasting life, and some to shame and euerlasting contempt.

Yep, right after the Tribulation (time of trouble) then
ALL AT ONCE the just and the unjust shall be raised for
God's proper disposition.

Sorry, but what you say the Bible says has to stand with
other things the Bible says. I see way to many a-mill,
posties sacrificing Revelation 20 on the alter of 2 Peter 3:10.

I believe that ALL THE SCRIPTURE teaches that
God will raise the just on THE LAST DAY. But I believe that
day is the 70th week of Daniel (a 7-year-long day): the
rapture (raising of the living and the dead to take to heaven)
is at the start of the 7-year-day; the resurrection (raising
of the dead to live again on earth) at the end of the 7-year-day
when Jesus comes back for the final victory of the Antichrist
and his evil works and to set up a PHYSICAL kingdom.

But hey, i'm just trying to figure out how ALL the scriptures
contribute to the same understaining of eschatology.

 

[Ed Edwards]

Mel Miller: //Are you asking me to place the "traditions which
yee haue beene taught" above the word of the
Lord"? Am I supposed to go to some other site,
instead of the Scriptures, to find the truth?//

I am doing nothing but holding up a mirror in front of you.
If you see UGLY it is between you and God.

Mel Miller: //He taught that He will "gather the elect from earth
to heaven on one of the days immediately
after the great tribulation and will send the
angels to gather them out of the heavens".
Mark 13:24-27; Matt.24:31.//

I show on BB an average of once a month that you are
misunderstanding these passage. Here is the one
about Matthew 24:

---------------------------------
In Matthew 24:3 the disciples of Jesus
ask three questions:

(in the order asked):
1. When will the Temple be destroyed?
2. What is the sign of His coming?
3. What is the sign of the end of age?

Jesus answers these questions in
Matthew 24:4-44, then follows them with
some parables.

Here are the answers of Jesus in the
order the questions were asked:

1. When will the Temple be destroyed?
Matthew 24:4-14

2. What is the sign of His coming?
Matthew 24:15-30

3. What is the sign of the end of age?
Matthew 24:31-44

Here is a summary of the answers
in the order in which events will occur:

1. When will the Temple be destroyed?
Soon, it was in 70AD

3. What is the sign of the end of age?
No signs preceeding the end of the age

2. What is the sign of His coming?
The Sign of His coming will be the
Tribulation period.

Recall the Greek language in which this
Mount Olivet Discourse (MOD) was written
did not have Microsoft Word to do it with.
So many ands, buts, and other connectors
give the outline. 'Polysyndeton' is a retorical device that uses
(in English) repeated connectors (usually 'and')
instead of an outline. This is most noticable
in the Bible in Genesis 1 and Matthew 24.
I believe the major outline to be:

1. When will the Temple be destroyed?
Matthew 24:4-14

2. What is the sign of His coming?
Matthew 24:15-30

3. What is the sign of the end of age?
Matthew 24:31-44

The Gathering in Matthew 24:31 is the
Rapture/resurrection which ends the
current church age (gentile age, age of grace,
last days, etc.)

Thus Matthew 24:4-14 describes all of the
church age even up to this time.
Matthew 24:4-14 describes the church age.
The signs of Matthew 24:4-14 are signs
that the church age continues.
-------------------------------------------

Ah yes, the ol' polysyndeton 'and'.
Strange how different usages of 'and' make for
different exchatologies