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My People
- Thread starter Walls
- Start date
ScottEmerson
Active Member
Uh, No thanks, I'll have to stick with the Bible on this one. </font>[/QUOTE]Where do you think the book's support comes from? Aren't you always ready to quote other authors, such as Gill? What's the matter - only read books that support your view? Don't take the "only the Bible standpoint" when your other points deny it.
Uh, No thanks, I'll have to stick with the Bible on this one. </font>[/QUOTE]Where do you think the book's support comes from? Aren't you always ready to quote other authors, such as Gill? What's the matter - only read books that support your view? Don't take the "only the Bible standpoint" when your other points deny it. </font>[/QUOTE]Gill isn't right on everything,, but I don't need your suggested reading because I already know it is extra-biblical.
I am already stedfast and sure of the doctrines of repentence and holy living.
I take it that you don't like the fact I referred to the Judgement Seat of Christ to prove the point of sin must be continued to be confessed, that which is not already forgiven because it is active in the life of the believer, or the Bible wouldn't be telling us to reckon ourselves dead to sin and the power thereof, not letting it rule over us as to obey it in the lusts of the flesh or the mind.
I do understand completely that we are forgiven of all sin, but the reality of it is that if we don't confess sin revealed to us by the Spirit, then we will lose reward and suffer the loss as in wood, hay and stubble, burnt to smithereens at the JS of Christ.
My sin after salvation won't keep me out of heaven, but unconfessed sin due to my stubborn will, the old sin nature that I still drag around with me, will be judged, that is why it is impertinent to get it under the Blood of Jesus now.
In Isaiah, what is often referred to as the "Condensed Bible", we find the following passage:
Isaiah 58:1 Cry aloud, spare not, lift up thy voice like a trumpet, and shew my people their transgression, and the house of Jacob their sins.
Does this mean by yours and DD's reasoning, that the "my people" in II Chronicles and Isaiah 58 can only be Israel, but yet we find Isaiah told to "cry aloud", indicating preaching, that Christians don't need preaching anymore after salvation? Well? Don't we as Christians still need preaching to show us our transgression?
I have to conclude when the Lord says my people, being I have been adopted into His family, I am one of "His people". And yes, we need the devil preached out of us!
ScottEmerson
Active Member
Haha. That's really funny. That's a great way to remain stagnant in your understanding of the Scriptures and remain in the dark, but whatever works for you.
JWs are steadfast and sure on many things, but that doesn't make them right, now, does it?
I think you need to read a book because you're contradicting yourself in two consecutive passages. So, are we forgiven of all sins or are we not forgiven of all sins?
The NT clearly shows that preaching should be done for the church, so your point is moot and, well, silly.
So when God talks about destroying His people and banishing them from His sight, does that mean He will kick Christians out of His family as well?
Thanks, but I don't have the devil in me - he can tempt me, but he can never indwell a Christian. I think you may need to read several books to get this theology of yours straightened out!
Scott Emerson, the notorious doctor of SPIN!
SPIN-it, Baby!
You're right, the devil can't indwell a Christian, but you've proven he can get others to use his technique: SPIN-it, Doc!
Amazing how we little dwarfs of spirituality can understand these things, but you doctors still need a library of commentaries.
SPIN-it, Baby!
You're right, the devil can't indwell a Christian, but you've proven he can get others to use his technique: SPIN-it, Doc!
Amazing how we little dwarfs of spirituality can understand these things, but you doctors still need a library of commentaries.
ScottEmerson
Active Member
Your quote: "And yes, we need the devil preached out of us" speaks for itself. With what I've seen of your theology, I wasn't surprised to hear that you thought that the devil could endwell a person.Originally posted by QuickeningSpirit:
Scott Emerson, the notorious doctor of SPIN!
SPIN-it, Baby!
You're right, the devil can't indwell a Christian, but you've proven he can get others to use his technique: SPIN-it, Doc!
Amazing how we little dwarfs of spirituality can understand these things, but you doctors still need a library of commentaries.
Care to address the blatant contradiction in your previous post?
You made it a "blatant contradiction" by your failure to realize the "devil" was in us from our birth. Everytime we go back to our old nature, which is not eradicated, as evidenced in your replies, yes, the "devil" does need to be preached out of us.
You could just be in the infant stages of denial.
You could just be in the infant stages of denial.
ScottEmerson
Active Member
So how does that relate to your "all our sins are forgiven"/"not all our sins are forgiven" contradiction? Which one is it?
So how does that relate to your "all our sins are forgiven"/"not all our sins are forgiven" contradiction? Which one is it? </font>[/QUOTE]O.K., since you just can't seem to come to terms on this one, let me ask you this question and see if it helps you:
When you sin in your present state, saved I presume, are you just automatically forgiven and able to continue in that sin? Wouldn't this scenario leave Jesus in an open shame, with His Body still hanging on the Cross?
I believe your problem is that you can't differentiate between the flesh and the spirit. The flesh is corrupt, you sow to the flesh/sin, you reap corruption. Now wouldn't this corruption be the judgement of God against that sin? Yes.
If you sow to the spirit, what do you reap? Life everlasting. Sowing to the spirit is never sin, it is what produces gold, silver, and precious stone, the stuff crowns are adorned with. Can't say that about wood,hay, and stubble, it won't stand the test of fire.
Let me ask you to examine this statement:"I can sin all I want to and it's covered by the Blood of Jesus Christ." (specifically profaning the Lord's Name). Is this type of attitude not sin? Will it be dealt with as sin at the Judgement Seat of Christ?
I'm afraid our sin isn't forgiven syncho-sematic, or automatically. I'm sorry if my statements earlier seemed contradictory, but you haven't deduced them in the context I posted them, thereby attempting to create a contradiction.
In the sense of eternity, we are sinless, forgiven for all sin, but in our present state we are not sinless, needing continual repentence. The best way to put it in "layman terms" is that we are only 2/3 saved, the other third being the flesh, which will never be saved.
Why suffer judgement at the JS of Christ? especially since we can get that "washed" from our being before then?
What!? I didn't know catholics could post in this part of the board.
Christ forgives all sins, past, present, and future.
Nice camp you have alligned yourself with Sheeagle. First Larkin, then Hagee, now Walls. Nice. </font>[/QUOTE]Hay, (oh, that's at the Bema Seat along with wood & stubble) if you don't ever confess any of your sins (I John 1:9), it's no skin off my nose. I try to keep 'fessed up. And I really have to keep 'fessed up when I'm on this board, LOL!
But I know...."tribulation worketh patience."
Headcoveredlady
New Member
I wish you could examine your statement and see, Scott, the reason people don't love is because of pride, hateful pride, a lack of understanding and eaten up with the lack of true compassion.
Yes, we as "saints"/children of the Most High are forgiven, but our land is not healed, that is because of sin. Chruches are full of sin, the reason being the home is full of sin. Now that's not the case evrywhere, God still has His remnant: those who obey the voice of God and are diligent in their practice and willing to humble themselves and pray.
Now this should never be confused with a voluntary humility, because our humility is because of the prompting of the Holy Ghost who convicts us of wrong doing.
The rebellious attitudes to holiness are rooted in bitterness and pride, selfishness and failure to reckon the things of God more precious than the rudiments of this present evil world.
We need proper balance in our Christian walk, being certain not to lean either to the right or the left, Judaisers or liberals, but balanced.
Salt is good, when it is first pure, then peacable, untainted with hypocrisy, or overwhelmed with sweetness. Ever tried mixing sugar with salt? Yuck!
There is the constant need of the Christian to be humbled before the Throne of Mercy, before the altar of incense, offering up our heartfelt prayers as dear saints, not laiden with sin or even a hint of impurity, else we make Christ the messenger of sin and of none effect. We can come to the Mercy Seat because of Christ, not so we can keep sinning because of Christ. There is a big difference: enmity with God because of the flesh, or humbled before God because of sorrow for sin.
God resisteth the proud, but giveth grace to the humble.
I'm forgiven! Never forgotten, never forsaken, Thank You , Jesus, for your being my High Priest that entered once into the veil, establishing the New Covenant forever, that, I will never take for granted and to think myself above humility!(Though I have to admit there are times I have been guilty of this, but I continue to repent.) </font>[/QUOTE]Thank you for preaching truth.
Proverbs 14:34, "Righteousness exalts a nation; but sin is a reproach to any people."
Daniel David
New Member
HCL, where does righteousness come from? If Christ is the answer, then individuals must be righteous. Besides, nation doesn't mean political entity, but the correct interpretation is out of place in this thread.
ScottEmerson
Active Member
You are, indeed, forgiven. Paul talks about this all through Romans. It is not a license to sin, of course, but we are forgiven past, present, and future.
What does that have to do with forgiveness. If a person who received AIDS through a homosexual encounter gets saved, odds are that he will not be immediately cured of AIDS. However his sins are completely forgiven. Forgiveness is for the spirit, not the body.
So are you saying that if a person confesses all of his sins and then dies immediately that he will not have any wood, hay, or stubble. I think you need to read I Corinthians 3 again. Forgiveness is NOT an issue when it comes to what we will receive. It is based upon our works, but there is absolutely no indication that what we have is predicated on the amount of or sins we confessed.
The attitude to sin as much as I want to is sin - Paul talks about that. However, the statement is, at its core, true. Any sin that a Christian commits is covered by the cross of calvary and is forgiven.
Then show your Scriptures that say that I can commit a sin after salvation and that sin will not be forgiven.
You are contradicting yourself again. We are either forgiven for all sin or we are not forgiven of all sin. You fail to understand that forgiveness of sin does not equal sinlessness. Forgiveness covers the spiritual consequence of that sin - being separated from God. That forgiveness will never be rescinded, according to the Word.
The judgement seat of Christ is not about forgiveness. We will be judged based upon our works, but confessing sins will not change what we have done. There is not a single verse related to the judgement seat of Christ that in any way says that it is our unconfessed sin that will be judged, nor that our unconfessed sin will turn into wood, hay, or stubble, which confessed sin will not. I Corinthians 3 and II COrinthians 5 are very specific concerning this. I think this is another extra-Biblical belief system you have.
Here's a pretty good primer about the judgement seat of Christ: http://www.whatsaiththescripture.com/Prophecy/Judgment.Seat.of.Christ.html
When we are justified upon accepting Christ, we are permanently accepted by God. Our sins no longer count against us. According to the ISBE, forgiveness "results in the complete removal of all estrangement and alienation between God and man. It restores completely the relationship which existed prior to the sin. The total removal of the sin as a result of the Divine forgiveness is variously expressed in the Scriptures: "Thou hast cast all my sins behind thy back" (Isaiah 38:17); "Thou wilt cast all their sins into the depths of the sea" (Micah 7:19); "I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin will I remember no more" (Jeremiah 31:34); "I, even I, am he that blotteth out thy transgressions" (Isaiah 43:25); "As far as the east is from the west, so far hath he removed our transgressions from us" (Psalms 103:12)...It removes all of the guilt and cause of alienation from the past; it assures a state of grace for the present; and promises Divine mercy and aid for the future."
I would encourage you to continue studying the doctrine of forgiveness. It is a dangerous and unbiblical notion to somehow think that we can do things that fall outside of the realm of forgiveness as CHristians. Once we're forgiven, we're FORGIVEN! It is because of this forgiveness that we strive to live lives worthy of the calling of Christ.
Headcoveredlady
New Member
Of course righteousness comes ONLY from Christ. But, the original question was about My people and what would and could happen if My people would repent.
It is obvious that most Christians in America are not living Holy righteous lives. So, of course that nation is not going to be blessed.
Sin is a reproach to any people. Righteousness exalts a nation. God does bless those who obey Him. God does honor people that honor Him. God will not be mocked, whatever is sewn will be reaped in the believer and the non.
Why has America deteriorated morally? Do you really believe that America has always been this grossly immoral as it is today in 2004?
So, the question remains, "Who are my people?" And what would happen if "My people" repented?
My answer would be that we would have much needed revival. If "My people" would repent.
Yes, this is very applicable. You can rant all day and night that this was only for Israel, but that is not true. God is the same today and yesterday.
He is still calling out a Remnant, a Holy people that He is preparing for Himself. He is standing at the door and knocking and waiting for a response.
ScottEmerson
Active Member
And the point is that under our new covenant, "My people" ALREADY have their sins "forgiven."
150 years ago, slavery was acceptable. That's no more immoral than what is happening now. Society has ALWAYS been immoral.
In today's world, "my people" have already repented - that's how they are God's people.
Yes, but His people have changed. The requirements to be the chosen changed drastically when Jesus Christ died on the cross.
Headcoveredlady
New Member
And the point is that under our new covenant, "My people" ALREADY have their sins "forgiven."
150 years ago, slavery was acceptable. That's no more immoral than what is happening now. Society has ALWAYS been immoral.
In today's world, "my people" have already repented - that's how they are God's people.
Yes, but His people have changed. The requirements to be the chosen changed drastically when Jesus Christ died on the cross. </font>[/QUOTE]So according to you since those who are born again have repented once that is all that is neccesary? It is ok if one continues to sin; say a gossip or someone who is covetous? It is ok to continue as long as they were once born again they can continue in this sin? Is that what you and your partner are implying?
ScottEmerson
Active Member
I'm saying that those who are born again have been forgiven all that is necessary.
Is it okay? Not at all. Sin is still sin. But forgiveness is eternal.
Is it okay? Not at all. Sin is still sin. But forgiveness is eternal.
Sin is wrong. Forgiveness is eternal. Can you find Biblical support that says that forgiveness somehow doesn't apply to the sins we commit in the future after our salvific experience?
When Jesus died on the cross. He died a righteous man. Death could not hold this righteous man because he was without sin. therefore he was removed or resurrected from death.
absolute promises can be made by God and man can receive these promises in linear time by faith, yet if a man is not actually delivered into death and placed into the death of christ. His sins are not forgiven yet.
1Co 15:17 And if Christ be not raised, your faith [is] vain; ye are yet in your sins.
what delivers mankind unto death?.
its the appearance of Gods law in the life of man. and it is mans acknowledgement that Gods law is righteous and the recognition of the failure of man to live by the law that condemns man and delivers him into death.
man himself must acknowledge he deserves death.
now to have all sins forgive. all men must be delivered into death by acknowledging their own personal unrighteousness and condemnation and be placed or covered over by the body of Christ while in death.
sin is not forgiven towards man in linear time until God chooses and places man soul into the death of Jesus Christ body. the only righteous and resurrected body in mankinds linear history. all sin that has tainted mans soul is covered over "in christ" by his blood. all past and present sin are covered. no future sin is covered, for mans soul in Christ spirit cannot sin.
If Christ is the first and last. He represented everyone being delivered OUT FROM death. yet he carried no sin into death.
absolute promises can be made by God and man can receive these promises in linear time by faith, yet if a man is not actually delivered into death and placed into the death of christ. His sins are not forgiven yet.
1Co 15:17 And if Christ be not raised, your faith [is] vain; ye are yet in your sins.
what delivers mankind unto death?.
its the appearance of Gods law in the life of man. and it is mans acknowledgement that Gods law is righteous and the recognition of the failure of man to live by the law that condemns man and delivers him into death.
man himself must acknowledge he deserves death.
now to have all sins forgive. all men must be delivered into death by acknowledging their own personal unrighteousness and condemnation and be placed or covered over by the body of Christ while in death.
sin is not forgiven towards man in linear time until God chooses and places man soul into the death of Jesus Christ body. the only righteous and resurrected body in mankinds linear history. all sin that has tainted mans soul is covered over "in christ" by his blood. all past and present sin are covered. no future sin is covered, for mans soul in Christ spirit cannot sin.
If Christ is the first and last. He represented everyone being delivered OUT FROM death. yet he carried no sin into death.
I could almost see those shaking that "fist" in the face of God. Demanding forgiveness, looking a gift horse in the mouth. The one who receives is not to look into the mouth of the horse and see he is unhealthy and deny the gift, but after receiving that gift, he would be abusive to not do anything about the "disease" likely to be found. The result being certain pain and discomfort ending in death, even causing others to contract the same disease.
Sanctification comes through consecretion, consecretion unto the Lord only comes from separation. Separation is obedience to the Spirit, otherwise it becomes legalism's attempt to earn sanctification. The process is called "REPENTENCE", and is not a one time, once and for-all ritual, it is THE way of life, a Christian's life.Christian duty is to remain humble, praying. The "Revivalists" saw the need, it's time we have REVIVAL!
I believe we are almost saying the same thing, Scott, but the biggest difference is that you seem to take a non-chalant approach to dealing with sin. God never has and never will, that is why He inspired Paul to write the following in the Epistle to the Romans in chapter 6:7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.
8 Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:
9 Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.
10 For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.
11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.
13 Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.
14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid. 16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.(Repentence) 18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.
19 I speak after the manner of men because of the infirmity of your flesh: for as ye have yielded your members servants to uncleanness and to iniquity unto iniquity; even so now yield your members servants to righteousness unto holiness.
20 For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness.
21 What fruit had ye then in those things whereof ye are now ashamed? for the end of those things is death.
22 But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.
23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
I could preach for at least the next thousand years on this passage if the Lord gave me breath, never being out of context. Paul is dealing with a specific doctrine here, the one called Repentence.
Yes we are eternally forgiven, but in the like manner as Jesus went into the Holy of Holies and into the Holiest of All, ONCE for all men, that does not mean all men are saved, neither does it mean that we are without sin.
Paul dealt with the aspect of whom you obey,either you are the servants of sin because you obey the lusts of the flesh, or you repent of that sin of lust and are found to be servants of God.
The ideal of sinless perfection is what is eating up the church, it's rooted in carnality, thinking we can sin, but never being sorry that the sin we comit is what nailed Him to the Cross, and having our flippant attitude towards sin, all the while others who don't know Christ are stumbling all over us while they observe our lack of obedience.
Here'sd a doozy; Have you sinned recently? Yes.
Do you willfully continue in that sin? I advise you not to. So please explain Hebrews 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins.
Now in the previous verse Paul was dealing directly with those who profess salvation to not forsake the aembling of, get this, "Ourselves" together.
Though my intention is not to do battle with you,only the fallacy of failing to realize doctrinal error according to true repentence, this one will most definitely project a ship sinking blow to your bow.
The Law has it's rigid standard, carrying it's instrument that executes those under law with death for being found in sin, but grace is that state of blissfulness that does away with the sting of death and releasing the power of the grave that would hold us down and prevent our living, but we are subject to sin, whther we obey it in the lusts thereof, or obey the Spirit of the Living God, Who would have us living in victory and not bound by sin, entering into the realm of nettles and thorns again that grace may abound.
Ere, since we should obey the Spirit, but times we obey the taskmaster of sin, we must turn from that sin and back to the Spirit.
Repentence is a continual process. we could lok further into the lives of David, who just so happened to thave the power and presence of God with him when he slew Goliath. We could look at Jonah and see where he turned from his desire and threw himself to the mercy of the waves and God had a whale/fish to deliver him to where he should have been, but then at the repentence of Nineveh, he scowled and died. We could also look at Jeremiah and see where he tried to quit but there was a fire burning in his bones that compelled him to do the will of God in spite of the disobedient Israle, who just so happened to need to turn from her wicked ways back unto the Living God. Just like we could look at Peter who was willing to go anywhere and do anything for Jesus, even to cutting off Malchus' ear , but found later outside judgement hall after cursing and denying Christ, the cock crew and he was found in bitter tears.
Why, why, Scott, don't you see the Lord's examples over and over again?
Ye are the servants to whom ye obey.
Want your "land" healed? Obey God, humble yourselves and pray, you have that Divine right.
Want to keep reaping corruption? Go ahead, while my land is healed, yours will only produce corruption, but my advice is to repent, humble yourselves and pray, it has immediate results, as well as eternal results.
Sorry for such a long post, (no, not reeeeaaaallly), but when the old cup gets to overflowing like this, even the saucer can't contain it all!
Brother Ricky