My Position on the Fourth Commandment

GE:

No one is as blind as he who does not want to see.

“They started out in the dark before sunrise _BECAUSE_ they arrived at the tomb at the rising of the sun.” (Emphasis GE)

So it took the women THREE HOURS to “start… out in the dark BEFORE sunrise”, “3 am” as you have several times stated elsewhere, until “they arrived at the tomb at the rising of the sun”, “6 am” as you have elsewhere, several times stated.

THREE HOURS from “3 am” “BEFORE sunrise”, before “all the women”, “arrived at the tomb at the rising of the sun”, “6 am”?!

Were they lame? Crippled?

Rubbish!

There was “only ONE visit … to the tomb by the women” according to Dr Walter.

“Mary did not come alone but was attended by the other Mary's as Matthew 28:2 explicitly states”.

“Matthew 28:2” says, Mary did not come alone but was attended by, quote, “the other Mary”— ONE, “other Mary”. TWO persons. THAT, is “as Matthew 28:2 explicitly states”.

Matthew, you explicit liar!

John states, “comes Mary Magdalene”, one name, Singular Present Verb, one person.

“Mary did not come alone”!

John, you liar!

“All the women but Mary ran scared….”

Did Matthew forget to mention it? Did Mark? Luke?

No, John! Although he doesn’t say “ran” or “scared”.

Not even John can be believed! Yes, NOT ONE of them liars says “All the women but Mary ran scared….”

“Mary had stood behind at the grave…” … that’s John again.

John, you muddled dreamer! You are telling us Mary stood at the grave looked inside, talked to the two angels inside, stood up straight while she turned around and saw Jesus approaching her as she looked at Him, while Dr Walter who should know better tells us “Mary went searching for Christ in the garden”.

“Matthew 28:2 explicitly states as does Mark 16:1-2.”

“Mary did not come alone but was attended by the other Mary's as Matthew 28:2 explicitly states as does Mark 16:1-2.”

Matthew 28:2”, “And behold, there was a great earthquake for the angel of the Lord …”

Is it Matthew, or is it Dr Walter who has his verse divisions incorrect?
No matter…

28:1b,2-4 “… set out Mary and the other Mary to go look at the grave, but suddenly there was a great earthquake the angel of the Lord descending …”
“Mark 16:1-2”, “Now when the Sabbath had gone through Mary Magdalene and Mary of James and Salome, had bought sweet spices that when they would come they could anoint Him. Then very early on the First Day of the week before sunrise they again came to the grave ….”.

deceivers! Not Matthew or Mark says one thing the same as the other, not “explicitly” or implicitly!

Persons:
Matthew 28:1-4, Two Marys
Matthew 28:5-10, “Women”; Mary Magdalene not with them
Mark 16:1, the two Marys and Salome
Mark 16:2-8, unidentified “women”
Luke 24:1,10,22 “women”; named; “some women”
John 20:1, Mary Magdalene
John 20:11, Mary Magdalene

Purpose:
Matthew 28:1-4, “Set out with the intent to go see the grave”
Matthew 28:5-10, “Angel ANSWERED … Ye seek Jesus”
Mark 16:1, At traders, with the intent to buy spices;
Mark 16:2-8, “Arrived (with the intent to) inspect”
Luke 24:1,22, “bringing the spices which they had prepared … found not the body”
John 20:1 “sees” the grave.
John 20:11 “had had stood after weeping … whom seekest thou?”

Circumstance:
Mark 16:1, Three women at traders
John 20:1 “Mary sees stone taken away from sepulchre”
Luke 24:1-9 Opened tomb entered; “found not the body”
Mark 16:2-8, closer details afterwards
John 20:11-17 Mark 16:9, “appeared first to Mary Magdalene”
Matthew 28:1-5a, Other women. New information on Resurrection received
Matthew 28:1-5bf and Jesus’ instructions trough angel.

Angels:

“Sabbath”:
Matthew 28:2-4, “… angel from heaven flung stone from the grave, sat on it”

“After Sabbath”:
Mark16:1, … no angel or angels
John 20:1-2, … no angel or angels

“On the First Day of the week”:
Luke 24:4 Two angels confronting women coming out from the tome
Mark 16:5, “… young man sitting on the right side”
Mark 16:2-8, “at the entrance a young man on right side …”

Sunday, “early”:
John 20:11 (Mark 16:9), “two angels sitting where the body of Jesus had laid”
Matthew 28:5, Outside tomb, “Answered / Explained the angel and told the women … ”

But Dr Walter showed us, all the Gospels’ distinctions and peculiarities and differences are no discrepancies or contradictions, they are purely the Gospel writers’ own interpretations of “Matthew’s "in the end of the Sabbath" and Mark's "after the Sabbath was past"”, “Matthew's use of "dawn" or "light growing" is the same as Mark's "rising of the sun." And that they “are one and the same descriptions of the same time” and of the same event and of the same persons etcetera.

Brilliant, unsurpassable insight into and intuition for the Gospel-Message of Jesus Christ, “I-Am-The-Truth”, in whose mouth there is no deceit.

There are not four separate visits but they started out in the dark BEFORE sunrise because they arrived at the tomb at the rising of the sun. As they were coming to the tomb they felt the earth quake which scared the guards along with the rock being rolled away thus sending the guards scared into the city which the women passed as they were coming to the tomb. Thus the resurrection occurred just before the guards ran to the city and the women came to the tomb, and Mary went to search for Jesus in the garden where Christ met her and then Christ left and met the women and thus all the women then returned to the disciples.

You should publish your New Revelations of John, Matthew, Mark and Luke, Dr Walter, they will be the seal of superiority over ‘The New Revelation’ of Jacob Lorber and Mrs E.G. White’s ‘Desire of the Ages’.

You have once for all proved, “Mark 16:9 explicity states Christ rose early in the morning on the first day ofthe week” and not in any way whatsoever, had to manipulate the text to avoid what it says, “Christ early in the morning on the First Day of the week appeared, risen, to Mary Magdalene, first.”

Now DHK, tell me Dr Walter is not the liar he makes of Matthew as he makes of Mark as he makes of Luke as he makes of John! Tell me!! Four times, times persons and names, times places and circumstances, times events and times, the times INNUMERABLE MATTHEW AND MARK AND LUKE AND JOHN, ARE MADE LIARS OF BY ONE, DR WALTER!!!

 

GE:

Dr Walter, you quote me as admitting to you being correct and I being wrong.
That is a first infringement on another’s integrity, because I in this quote reacted to DHK; not to you, and that can and does make a world’s difference to logical deducement from and meaning of what I said.

A next bad manner of yours, is your old habit of telling me what I ‘admit’ or do not ‘admit’ while you have no idea of what I ‘admit’ or do not ‘admit’. But you are like an iron post to a blunt axe; I can ask you how courteous or uncivilised, you just shrug off appeal.

Then guaranteed, you shall misquote me, and insult me for having said what you in fact are saying. Like right here!

I wrote in answer to DHK, “Because you do not want the text to read, “Now when Jesus was risen, early the first day of the week he appeared first to Mary Magdalene”; you want it to read, “Now when he had risen early on the first day of the week, he appeared first to Mary Magdalene…””.

You write,
“I am glad you admit this appearance to Mary was very early in the morning on the first day of the week it was that very same morning on the first day of the week the same women in the very same morning were returning from the tomb when the guards also were going to the city that very same Sunday morning:”

Never mind the broader and bigger false comparison you make, and just look at the single words!

My words as of Mark’s, “Now when Jesus was risen, early the first day of the week he appeared first to Mary Magdalene”. Exactly, word for word, words contained in the KJV of Mark 16:9— even to word-order.

Now your words that allegedly were my words,
“…appearance to Mary … _VERY_ early in the morning on the first day of the week…”— emphasis by GE.

DO YOU see … are you ABLE to see, Dr Walter … do you REALISE Dr Walter, can you COMPREHEND, Dr Walter, do you have the BRAINS to read, Dr Walter, the word, YOU, inserted into what I quoted from the Scriptures?

Are you really a Christian Dr Walter? Because I very much doubt you are a Christian, Dr Walter, the way you give false witness in direct contravention of God’s own Commandment for a Christian man, not to LIE?!

Why do I so rave over one little word?

For VERY good reason, that “very”, is the very word that differentiates TWO, and DIFFERENT, indications of TWO, and DIFFERENT actual times-of-day, in THESE, TWO, specific instances, TWO, and DIFFERENT, actual times so to speak ‘on the clock’, THREE HOURS APART, TWO, and DIFFERENT time-indications WRITTEN DOWN for eternity so eternal as God’s Word shall be eternal, the TWO, and DIFFERENT time-indications found in,

first,

the first in chronology as well as first in context indicative-of-time-statement in Mark 16:2, “_VERY_ early in the morning on the first day of the week…”; and

next,

the later in chronology as well as later in context indicative-of-time-statement in Mark 16:9, “early the first day of the week…”—

two, and different, ACTUAL, REAL, times so to speak ‘on the clock’, three hours apart, and, “WRITTEN” … which Dr Walter does not, confuse, but intentionally — ever so covertly ever so blatantly — IDENTIFIES and SINGULARIZE, thus making not only the two, and different, ACTUAL, REAL times, and time-descriptions, one-and-the-same time and time-description, but making one-and-the-same two, and different, actual, real, EVENTS – the events of THOSE, TWO, and DIFFERENT, actual and real times and faithful and true time-descriptions.

In a word, Dr Walter commits fraud; not just fraud, but fraud against the Scriptures-Word of God. So his fraud becomes fraud from against me, Mr Nobody, to fraud against the Scriptures, to fraud against Truth, to fraud committed against God.

Are you a Christian, Dr Walter? Because I can bring my message only to your senses if you are a Christian man, and it does not seem that I am able to bring anything to your senses.

 

[/QUOTE]

GE:

O, I LOVE this!

 

[/QUOTE]


GE:
Typical Dr Walter!
He tells me what I did, that I presented contradictions. He tells me what I did, that I with cut and paste jerked out of context presentations from the Gospels, made up artificial contradictions.
The man is a compulsive liar, man!
I presented non-contradictory quotes from the Gospels, for the purpose of emphasising the reliability and trustworthiness of each and every Gospel anecdote on the different but never differing events and particulars of that night on the First Day of the week,
namely,
1)… the first glimpse of the opened tomb “while still being early darkness”;
2)… the discovery of the emptied tomb by the women while they came to embalm the body of Jesus “deepest morning-of-night” just after midnight;
3)… certain women’s re-assessment-visit at about “3 am” “VERY early of before-sunrise-morning”, when they fled and told nobody anything;
4)… Mary Magdalene’s “stayed standing outside the tomb” ‘visit’, when Jesus approached her and appeared to her before anyone, “first”, sunrise by the time a gardener might begin his day’s work;
5)… and the visit on Sunday morning when the other women must have had returned to the grave a last time and the angel answered their questions on the events around the Resurrection “on the Sabbath Day” before, after which visit Jesus met them on their way to tell the disciples about the angel’s happy news.
Not a single contradiction copied or pasted from any Gospel, or contrived by myself! But Dr Walter accuses me of such fraud!
You are very unfair, Dr Walter!

 

GE:


Re:
Dr Walter,
“In addition to the timing problem encountered by Mark's comments in Mark 16:3-4…”

Dr Walter accuses me of making artificial contradictions; but what does he do, here? He asserts there exists “the timing problem encountered by Mark's comments in Mark 16:3-4”.

I am afraid, I do not encounter any timing problem in, or, caused by, Mark's comments in Mark 16:3-4.

In fact, I do not even encounter as much as a reference to time in Mark's comments in Mark 16:3-4. Not even implied or deduced or whatever— NONE!

So just who makes the timing problems encountered in this discussion?!

And who is it who finds timing problems are “proving” anything constructive? Is it in the nature of encountered timing problems to prove “the women had not previously been to the tomb”? Or is it in the nature of encountered factual statements of ‘timing’ that it could be proved “the women had not previously been to the tomb”, such as, that not even Mary Magdalene, knew that the grave was opened? Or, such encountered factual statement as that the women came to the tomb, “bringing the spices which they had prepared with them”?

How on earth for Pete’s sake, can the TOTALLY IMAGINED “additional contextual difficulty … that the same women who went to the tomb in Matthew 28:2 are the same women who left the tomb "when" the eyewitness guards also were on their way back to the city … prov(e) that the women had not previously been to the tomb and thus Matthew 28:1-2 is the same event as Mark 16:1-2”?!
Easy!
First,

By making it “Gerard’s”, “additional contextual difficulty”— Dr Walter’s full-prove proving of and proof for every additional contextual difficulty he had to face himself because of his own one-only-visit- approach and –proof.
Pass the buck! As easy as that.

Next,
By fabricating and presenting another of Dr Walter’s "closed", proven and sealed selections of non-facts, here, quote, “…the same women who went to the tomb in Matthew 28:2 are the same women who left the tomb "when" the eyewitness guards also were on their way back to the city to report what they saw - stone rolled away, empty tomb, angels, earthquake or as Matthew says "all these things."”

I say, selection of non-facts. That means, a selection of lies, as if the more lies like sticks bound together, the better the chance one might start blossoming and bear fruits of yet more lies. The lies-blossoming stick will certainly be the one called ‘Eyewitness guards-Gibbet’. His off-spring are called ‘The same women-Rod’ and ‘16:1-2 > 3-4 > 28:1-2 Forked Stick’.
Matthew does NOT “say”, “all these things”, and Matthew does NOT “say”, “all these things” as were it Mark 16:1-2 = 3-4 = Matthew 28:1-2 = ‘The same women’, even the “stone (seen) rolled away”.

Dr Walter, stop increasing iniquity!

“All these things that happened” were ONLY those things the guards actually saw, and they actually saw NOTHING because they were instantaneously “struck down unconscious convulsing like dead men” by the brilliance of the descending angel’s appearance.

Neither saw the women anything that happened according to “Matthew 28:1-2”, because “the angel ANSWERED” them on their enquiry into the events of the Resurrection, about the things specifically “INFORMED” them “of the Sabbath”.

“All these things that happened” in Matthew 28:11 in NO manner whatsoever ‘prove’ anything “that happened”

in Matthew 28:1 “on SABBATH’S mid-afternoon BEFORE the First Day of the week”;

or, ‘prove’ anything “that happened”
between from Mark 16:1 “after the Sabbath” and John 20:1 “while still early darkness on the First Day” Saturday evening until John 20:15 SUNRISE;

or, ‘prove’ anything “that happened”
from and including Luke 24:1-10 after midnight “deepest morning-of-night” until Mark 16:2 to 9 “very early before-sunrise on the First Day of the week”;

or, ‘prove’ anything “that happened”
in Matthew 28:10, AFTER sunrise.

“All these things that happened” in Matthew 28:11, does NOT “prove” the things that happened, happened
with or to “all the women”; happened
at only one visit of “all the women”; happened
at once during between “3 am” and “6 am”; happened
when Christ also first appeared to Mary Magdalene; or happened
as the guards looked on, on “all these things that happened” happening; and
“also were on their way back to the city to report what they saw -”—
which is what you, Dr Walter, claim the guard’s reference, “all the things that happened”, “proves”.

No; it is an umpteenth LIE of yours and a disgrace to the Christian faith of your profession!

 

The false accusations, derogatory language, and offensiveness of such posts as this one, Gerhard, must stop immediately. I may post this one as an example in the forum for the Administrators to look at.

If you are going to continue to post here you must stop calling people liars and other such names. Please read the rules that are posted at the bottom of each page.

 

GE:

Explain :

How, according to you, Jesus appeared to Mary first, after the guards were the eyewitnesses of his resurrection?

How the guard "actually saw the stone rolled back" but they "witnessed an empty tomb"? Did Christ rise before he rose?!

How the guard was struck down like dead men, yet they "fled the site"? Borne on chariots of fire?!

How the guard was struck down like dead men, yet they "reported "all these things" back? Dead men do tell tales?!

How the guard claimed they slept while they "the same time "when" the women were returning", "reported back to the city"? The guards trusting fearing Jews and women knowing better? Deceit, deceit’s only trust!

How we, "hence" – i.e., from the guard's alleged "actually (seeing) the stone rolled back" –, know,
“the resurrection occurred after 3am”?
“the resurrection occurred … just before the women came to the tomb” …?

But we from the fact Matthew actually recorded NOTHING of the sort, as well as from the guard’s having been “struck down convulsing like dead men unconscious”, dare not know the guard actually “saw” NOTHING, “felt” NOTHING, “witnessed” NOTHING, and “fled”, NOWHERE?!

The art of lying is a crafty art.

So, certainly “the guards reported back to the city - ON SUNDAY MORNING”.
Who denied it?

And yes, “the truth is that the other women fled but Mary stayed behind” John 20:11 and Mark 16:8— but stayed behind at the tomb right next to its door-opening, weeping— not “at the Garden seeking the whereabouts of her Lord”.

And not “while the other women fled”, but some three hours after “Mary Magdalene had had stood after”, ‘heistehkei’ Plusquam Perfectum.

Also yes, “After appearing to Mary the Lord then” a little later “suddenly met” the other women. But He did not “intercept” them, “in their flight” from the tomb of about three hours earlier Mark 16:8.

Nor did He “reaffirmed what the angels had commanded them and told them”, but He confirmed what the angels had commanded them and told them by having met them in Person, The-Risen.

Just like He did a little while ago when He “appeared to Mary Magdalene first, The-Risen.”

 

Re:
DW,
“The guards …. conveyed to the priests what happened at the grave and these guards were bribed to tell a different story then what they were EYE WITNESSES of!”

GE:

The guards and Jews didn’t agree that the guards must “spread the story” about anything that really happened “mid-afternoon on the Sabbath Day” before. They could not because they knew not because they saw not. They would tell only what they really knew because they had really seen it, and because it could not be denied by anyone in the world because it was there for everyone to see. So the guard would tell what they already knew and everyone else soon would learn to know, only, that the tomb was opened and empty.

The guards were unable to know anything more because they saw no more. They did not even see any of the smaller things which Peter and John had noticed. When the guard came by again, they must have received the fright of their lives, and didn’t bother to pay attention to anything but their own safety now. So, they could tell what they really were eyewitnesses of and no more— EXCEPT what could not be denied by anyone in the world because nobody was there to see for himself.

How would the guard get away with their story? Exactly by knowing the first question from anyone to them, would be, But how is that possible? Were you not on duty, guards? Were you sleeping on duty, guards?

The Romans and the Jews saw their gap— nobody else actually saw, so nobody else could ever deny. And they decided to lie about something no one would be able to prove them liars, and both the guards and the priests would save face.

THEY LIED:
Yes, we slept! Of course, after duty; what do you think, we would sleep on duty? We finished our watch, the whole of Saturday, from we were stationed on Saturday morning (Matthew 27:62), until midnight last night when Saturday and our watch expired! We earned our little nap, “those” who liked to, and didn’t leave there and then after they had come by again. No one can accuse them, and they would certainly never admit to have slept on duty! We slept, yes, and “while we slept, his disciples came by night and stole him!”— “while we slept”, in our rights!

The LIE, put into their mouths by the two scared to life high priests Annas and Caiaphas, in the high priest’s private palace, PAID OFF with “large money” in the pockets of “some of the guard” who dared challenge the cowards. And they delectably went their way. They scored; the rest of the guard gained nothing, but also, lost nothing.

And that explains why, first, “it being early darkness still, comes Mary Magdalene and sees the stone taken away from the tomb” John 20:1, seeing nothing else but a deserted place!

And why, also, in Luke 24 the women, see verse 10, Saturday night “deep(est) morning on the First Day of the week came unto the sepulchre bringing the spices which they had prepared”.

They came THEN, because by midnight they knew, the Roman guard’s watch would be over, and they would be permitted into the sepulchre.

And they CAME then at all and despite Mary Magdalene’s suspicion after her first sight of the removed door stone that “They have taken away the Lord’s body out of the grave”, because they must have thought Jesus’ body was in the grave STILL.

Now this lie spread around among unbelievers to this day, confirms something else that even believers, to this day do not understand, and when they understand, usually deny non the less because they believe a Sunday resurrection.

It is this TRUTH the REAL “deceivers” the JEWS, perfectly realising, witnessed to “on the morning after The Preparation" : the TRUTH, "after three days I will rise again … Command _THEREFORE_ that the sepulchre be made sure until _THE THIRD DAY_ is over….”

The morning after The Preparation” is “On the Sabbath Day”; and the Sabbath Day the morning after The Preparation was “THE THIRD DAY”, both “according to the Scriptures” and the assurance of Jesus Christ HIMSELF.

Which is why Matthew in 28:1f, UNINTERRUPTEDLY CONTINUES with this real history of THIS VERY one and only Sabbath Day in the history of Jesus Christ,
“DESPITE (‘de’)”, the sealing and the guarding of the sepulchre that morning after The Preparation, “SABBATH’S, there was a great earthquake”, and God raised Christ from the dead by the exceeding greatness of the power of his resurrection.