My Stance and Does God Want Everyone Saved

[Van]

Really? Fully supports you view when it says none seek after God?

When does it say none seek after God? At any time (Calvinist interpretation) or when sinning (alternate interpretation). The fact Calvinists cannot see their view has been added to the text is mind-boggling.

 

[Reformed1689]

When does it say none seek after God? At any time (Calvinist interpretation) or when sinning (alternate interpretation). The fact Calvinists cannot see their view has been added to the text is mind-boggling.

“as it is written: “None is righteous, no, not one; no one understands; no one seeks for God. All have turned aside; together they have become worthless; no one does good, not even one.”” (Romans 3:10–12, ESV)

“As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God. They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.” (Romans 3:10–12, KJV 1900)

 

[Van]

“as it is written: “None is righteous, no, not one; no one understands; no one seeks for God. All have turned aside; together they have become worthless; no one does good, not even one.”” (Romans 3:10–12, ESV)

“As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God. They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.” (Romans 3:10–12, KJV 1900)

Note the issue of no one seeking God at any time, verse no one seeking God when sinning was not addressed. We all know there are none righteous, for all have fallen short of the glory of God. We all sin, we all have turned aside, and when turned aside we are not seeking God. The fact Calvinists cannot see their view has been added to the text is mind-boggling.

 

[Reformed1689]

Note the issue of no one seeking God at any time, verse no one seeking God when sinning was not addressed. We all know there are none righteous, for all have fallen short of the glory of God. We all sin, we all have turned aside, and when turned aside we are not seeking God. The fact Calvinists cannot see their view has been added to the text is mind-boggling.

So when, according to this verse, do people seek after God?

 

[Walpole]

“as it is written: “None is righteous, no, not one; no one understands; no one seeks for God. All have turned aside; together they have become worthless; no one does good, not even one.”” (Romans 3:10–12, ESV)

“As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God. They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.” (Romans 3:10–12, KJV 1900)

Your post is a great demonstration of the dangers of cherry picking verses from Scripture to try and force them to fit one's theology.

The words of St. Paul actually refute your position, as St. Paul is quoting David in Psalm 14:1-2, whereby he writes:

"To the chief Musician, A Psalm of David. The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good. The LORD looked down from heaven upon the children of men, to see if there were any that did understand, and seek God." - Psalm 14:1-2

David states it is the fool who says there is no God, who does not do good and does not seek.

---> If St. Paul was not quoting David but instead meant that in absolute terms (as you imply), St. Paul would be contradicting his very own teaching, as just one chapter prior he says this to the Romans...

"To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life" - Romans 2:7



Contextomy on full display.

 

[Reformed1689]

David states it is the fool who says there is no God, who does not do good and does not seek.

No, that is not what Paul quoted. He did not quote the part about the fool saying there is no God. By the way, that is where the fool's quote stops.

And no, it does not contradict 2:7. Those who do good are the elect, the ones who have been saved and are under preserving grace. They get eternal life.

 

[Walpole]

No, that is not what Paul quoted. He did not quote the part about the fool saying there is no God. By the way, that is where the fool's quote stops.

You clearly quoted St. Paul seemingly completely unaware that he is quoting Psalm 14. Even the version you used for Romans 3, that of the ESV, makes it clear he is quoting David.

---> Bible Gateway passage: Romans 3 - English Standard Version

"As it is written..."

And no, it does not contradict 2:7. Those who do good are the elect, the ones who have been saved and are under preserving grace. They get eternal life.

Yes, if St. Paul was not quoting David, he would be contradicting himself:

Romans 2:7 ---> "To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life."

Romans 3:11 ---> "...no one understands; no one seeks for God."


If Romans 3:11 were St. Paul's words and not David's, he would be completely contradicting his own instruction to the faithful at Rome.


Contextomy on full display.

 

[Reformed1689]

You clearly quoted St. Paul seemingly completely unaware that he is quoting Psalm 14. Even the version you used for Romans 3, that of the ESV, makes it clear he is quoting David.

---> Bible Gateway passage: Romans 3 - English Standard Version

"As it is written..."

What makes you think I don't know he is quoting Psalm 14? I said he is not quoting the part you are staking your claim on.

Yes, if St. Paul was not quoting David, he would be contradicting himself:

Romans 2:7 ---> "To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life."

Romans 3:11 ---> "...no one understands; no one seeks for God."

Yes, notice the word continuance. These are already saved. This is not the unelect.

 

[Walpole]

What makes you think I don't know he is quoting Psalm 14? I said he is not quoting the part you are staking your claim on.


Yes, notice the word continuance. These are already saved. This is not the unelect.

You clearly did not know the Apostle was quoting David because you used Romans 3 to assert that Scripture "DIRECTLY" states that none seek...

Your post ---> www.baptistboard.com/threads/my-stance-and-does-god-want-everyone-saved.114758/page-6#post-2564862


Again, if St. Paul was not quoting David, but instead held your position, then he would be contradicting his very own teaching...


Romans 2:7 ---> "To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life."

 

[Reformed1689]

You clearly did not know the Apostle was quoting David because you used Romans 3 to assert that Scripture "DIRECTLY" states that none seek...

And yes, Paul does state it there by quoting Psalms. Nothing I have said suggests I did not know it was a quote and you are engaging in ad hominem to try and discredit the position.

Again, if St. Paul was not quoting David, but instead held your position, then he would be contradicting his very own teaching...


Romans 2:7 ---> "To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life."

I've already shown you are wrong here.

 

[Steven Yeadon]

Arminians, since I'm halfway between Calvinism and Arminianism right now, why not admit all are sinners given over to sin (Romans 2), even if we want to do good by the Law, we are enslaved to sin but by faith in Jesus Christ and life by God's indwelling Spirit (Romans 7-8).

 

[Walpole]

And yes, Paul does state it there by quoting Psalms. Nothing I have said suggests I did not know it was a quote and you are engaging in ad hominem to try and discredit the position.

Pointing out your error is not an ad hominem.

It's ok to admit that you did not know the Apostle was quoting David. There is no shame in that.

I've already shown you are wrong here.

Where was that post?

Again, if St. Paul was not quoting David, then he (St. Paul) would be contradicting his own teaching.

To conclude, your using Romans 3:11 to assert there are none that seek is shown to be fallacious given that St. Paul was quoting David, who describes the foolish. Furthermore, we know St. Paul exhorted the faithful at Rome to seek in Romans 2:7. This would be a contradiction if Romans 3:11 was speaking in absolute terms and not a quotation.


Contextomy on full display.

 

[Reformed1689]

It's ok to admit that you did not know the Apostle was quoting David. There is no shame in that.

Don't be stupid. I did know that and have never said otherwise.

To conclude, your using Romans 3:11 to assert there are none that seek is shown to be fallacious given that St. Paul was quoting David, who describes the foolish.

Only the first part of that verse is what the foolish are saying. The rest describes all who are not in Christ. All who are not in Christ ARE fools.

Furthermore, we know St. Paul exhorted the faithful at Rome to seek in Romans 2:7. This would be a contradiction if Romans 3:11 was speaking in absolute terms and not a quotation.

It's not a contradiction. They are already saved. Therefore, they can do good at that point by the power of God.

 

[Walpole]

Don't be stupid]. I did know that and have never said otherwise.

"You are engaging in an ad hominem."

Do you know what hypocrisy is?

Only the first part of that verse is what the foolish are saying. The rest describes all who are not in Christ. All who are not in Christ ARE fools.

...And thus those who do not seek God are ________?

a. the fools
b. the wise
c. both the fools and the wise


You just torpedoed your own boat.

It's not a contradiction. They are already saved. Therefore, they can do good at that point by the power of God.

How can they already be saved when David is praying for salvation to come?

Psalm 14: 7 ---> "Oh, that salvation for Israel would come out of Zion! When the Lord restores the fortunes of his people, let Jacob rejoice, let Israel be glad."

 

[Reformed1689]

...And thus those who do not seek God are ________?

a. the fools
b. the wise
c. both the fools and the wise


You just torpedoed your own boat.

No, I didn't.

How can they already be saved when David is praying for salvation to come?

Psalm 14: 7 ---> "Oh, that salvation for Israel would come out of Zion! When the Lord restores the fortunes of his people, let Jacob rejoice, let Israel be glad."

You are mixng things.

 

[Steven Yeadon]

I am continuing work on the new thread to be posted. I am taking my time and being thorough. I am a traditionally published author, so I am treating this as one of my other professional products.

 

[HeirofSalvation]

Except the Bible does not state that God wills each individual to be saved. Not in one place does it say that.

No, but that he desires it.
He doesn't "will" it in the sense of decreeing it because if he gives man libertarian freedom, he can't.
God desires that all men be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth......he doesn't decree it.

 

[Squire Robertsson]

Six Hour Warning
This thread will be closed sometime after 4:05 AM Pacific.

 

[Squire Robertsson]

Six Hour Warning
This thread will be closed sometime after 4:05 AM Pacific.

This thread is closed.