N.H.S. Death Panels ?

[Bro. Curtis]

Why is this happening ? Is it hyperbole from the source ?

A 29-year-old woman will die without a new drug that the NHS is refusing to provide despite the manufacturer offering it to her for free, it emerged today.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/h...fferer-denied-chance-of-life-drug-by-NHS.html

 

[Oldtimer]

I hope it isn't true.

However,

Protests at Birmingham hospital as cystic fibrosis sufferer is denied life-saving drug http://www.birminghammail.net/lifes...birmingham-hospital-as-cystic-fibrosis-274099

'It's the only chance of her having a life': Fury of dying cystic fibrosis sufferer's family after she is denied wonder drug by NHS bosses http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/a...refused-wonder-drug-save-life-NHS-chiefs.html

 

[targus]

Why is this happening ? [/url]

According to the article the NHS won't let her have the medicine even though the manufacturer will provide it for free because the NHS says that the manufacturer won't provide it for free forever.

So because the manufacturer will some day stop providing the free medication this girl should be denied life saving medicine.

The logic escapes me.

 

[mont974x4]

follow the money....I bet that leads to the answer.

That is why we cannot get many medicines that would be helpful.

 

[preachinjesus]

I think we all need to hold on and read the article and, for starters, note that this dealing with a case in th United Kingdom and not the United States.

Then lets not make the fallacious step of thinking this is happening in the US, nor that it will. Time and time again in this forum the claim of "death panels" in the ACA has been refuted.

 

[Revmitchell]

I think we all need to hold on and read the article and, for starters, note that this dealing with a case in th United Kingdom and not the United States.

No one said it did. But it is a fine example of the socialist health care system we have to look forward to if Obama care goes into full effect.

Then lets not make the fallacious step of thinking this is happening in the US, nor that it will. Time and time again in this forum the claim of "death panels" in the ACA has been refuted.

Interesting, I doubt it but would be interested in seeing those "refutations".

 

[mont974x4]

We already have death panels. One example is transplant committees. Another example is the FDA pulling medicines off the market to "protect us" despite their usefulness. Another example is the DEA and other agencies on the medical marijuana issue. Not to mention insurance companies deciding what medicines they will agree to provide for you. These are in place now, prior to obamacare taking full effect. If you think that is not going to get worse under fully implementation I have a bride for sale.


So, you'll have a large task ahead of you if you intend to prove death panels are not an issue.

 

[Bro. Curtis]

I think we all need to hold on and read the article and, for starters, note that this dealing with a case in th United Kingdom and not the United States.

It is ALWAYS good to read a linked article before commenting on it.

Then lets not make the fallacious step of thinking this is happening in the US, nor that it will. Time and time again in this forum the claim of "death panels" in the ACA has been refuted.

Hmm. That I don't remember.

 

[Oldtimer]

I think we all need to hold on and read the article and, for starters, note that this dealing with a case in th United Kingdom and not the United States.

Then lets not make the fallacious step of thinking this is happening in the US, nor that it will. Time and time again in this forum the claim of "death panels" in the ACA has been refuted.

I can not speak for anyone else. I read the article. Knew before I read it, the source based on info within the link, itself.

IMO, you nor anyone else can say that this won't happen in the US. Fifty years ago, when I was a teenager, much that is going on today in this country would have been unthinkable at that time.

 

[Bro. Curtis]

Wrong thread...

 

[billwald]

> Fifty years ago, when I was a teenager, much that is going on today in this country would have been unthinkable at that time.


50 years ago about the only people who had pre-paid health care were the military, government employees, and those with union jobs.

 

[OldRegular]

If Obama is elected the 15 member death panel enshrined n Obamacare will becme a reality.
"1984" may be 30 years late but it will happen.

 

[preachinjesus]

IMO, you nor anyone else can say that this won't happen in the US. Fifty years ago, when I was a teenager, much that is going on today in this country would have been unthinkable at that time.

This isn't an argument nor a valid point, its simply an ad hoc rationalization.

If we go back 50 years ago there were people saying that there were things going on that would have been unthinkable 50 years prior. Things like:

* Women voting
* Racial equality
* Growth of evangelicalism
* Flight
* Automobiles
* Gender equality

So you haven't really made a point then have you?

 

[Oldtimer]

> Fifty years ago, when I was a teenager, much that is going on today in this country would have been unthinkable at that time.


50 years ago about the only people who had pre-paid health care were the military, government employees, and those with union jobs.

Offering insurance policies to employee groups not only benefited insurers, but also benefited employers. During World War II, wage and price controls prevented employers from using wages to compete for scarce labor. Under the 1942 Stabilization Act, Congress limited the wage increases that could be offered by firms, but permitted the adoption of employee insurance plans. In this way, health benefit packages offered one means of securing workers. http://eh.net/encyclopedia/article/thomasson.insurance.health.us

50 years ago there was little union activity here in the south. Yet, larger employers offered group insurance plan as a part of their benefits packages.

But, that isn't the point I was making.

50 years ago it was unthinkable that life saving medicine would be denied to somone who could have benefited from taking it. Just as it was unthinkable that the government would pay for abortions, approve of gay marriage, allow porn on TV, as so much more.

Coming soon, if not already here...............

Advisory boards, responsible for curbing medical expense in government mandated insurance plans will make decisions on cost effective procedures.

 

[Matt Black]

OK, some context. Firstly, there is nothing to stop the young woman concerned directly approaching the pharmaceutical company privately ie: outwith the NHS and taking them up on their free trial. The NHS of course will then not be obliged to continue to treat her with that drug once the free offer runs out. The pharmaceutical company however seems to be playing a rather cynical game of 'sprat to catch a mackerel'; rather like the narcotics dealer on the street, they are in effect saying "you can have the first dose or three for free, but then it's gonna cost you". Then there is the point of taxpayers' money being involved whenever the NHS comes into play: NHS managers, particularly in this age of austerity and budget cuts, just like medical insurance companies on your side of the Pond, constantly have to ask themselves "can we really justify to our paymasters spending £182000pa per patient on a drug like this" when it's taxpayers' money being spent.

 

[Bro. Curtis]

So the company supplying the drug for free is painted as evil, and the people who control the money are looked at with sympathy.

 

[Revmitchell]

OK, some context. Firstly, there is nothing to stop the young woman concerned directly approaching the pharmaceutical company privately ie: outwith the NHS and taking them up on their free trial. The NHS of course will then not be obliged to continue to treat her with that drug once the free offer runs out. The pharmaceutical company however seems to be playing a rather cynical game of 'sprat to catch a mackerel'; rather like the narcotics dealer on the street, they are in effect saying "you can have the first dose or three for free, but then it's gonna cost you". Then there is the point of taxpayers' money being involved whenever the NHS comes into play: NHS managers, particularly in this age of austerity and budget cuts, just like medical insurance companies on your side of the Pond, constantly have to ask themselves "can we really justify to our paymasters spending £182000pa per patient on a drug like this" when it's taxpayers' money being spent.

thanks for confirming why the government does not need to control health care.

 

[Bro. Curtis]

Disclaimer...I like Matt Black, and consider him a good guy, but Mitch is right. The problem has never been better put.

 

[mont974x4]

If Obama is elected the 15 member death panel enshrined n Obamacare will become a reality.
"1984" may be 30 years late but it will happen.

Yes, "1984" will prove to prophetic to a real extent.

Just look at technology.
With things like smart TV's and Xbox kinect the large flat screen on the wall being used to communicate is here. The technology to remotely turn on someone else's TV, computer, and phone is here. The ability for the government to spy on its citizens is much more likely, and much easier to accomplish, than many people even realize.

 

[Matt Black]

So the company supplying the drug for free is painted as evil, and the people who control the money are looked at with sympathy.

T'other side of t'coin, as folks up north here say.