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Name the first sin...
- Thread starter Dr.Mychalson
- Start date
Sin has it's origin within each of us when we break the law.
On a side note: Atheist's also teach the origin of sin as opposed to original sin.
According to them, sin is a social construct originating within the human mind as a means of group survival.
#1 Ignorance.
#2 FEAR. Caused by ignorance. This causes MISTRUST of GOD. Faith died.
I agree sin already existed in the devil, the sinner from the beginning. 1 John 3:8
That is why man was created so that the Son of God could be manifested as the Son of Man.
Death also already existed and man was created to be subjected to, the death. Hebrews 2:6,7, 9 and14
Dr.Mychalson
Member
Sorry for the long delay. I run a clinic and offer free service to those who can't pay and it get's crazy at times... but it is rewarding...
Genesis 1:11 "And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit trees yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so."
Genesis 1:12 "And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the trees yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and God saw that it was good."
In the Hebrew, it clearly says the command was to bring forth FRUIT TREES YIELDING FRUIT.
The earth responded by bringing forth TREES YIELDING FRUIT.
The earth according to Judaism disobeyed the Word of God. Later in Genesis, it says that the earth was cursed for man's sake. The Rabbis believe God can not curse anything unless it does something wrong even if it is a benefit for or a curse for others.
Judaism believes that all the earth is alive, even as Jesus entered the city of Jerusalem after being asked to silence the people said "That if he did silence the people the rocks and trees would praise him.
Anyway... That is what the Jews believe. It is found in the Talmud.
Genesis 1:11 "And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit trees yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so."
Genesis 1:12 "And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the trees yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and God saw that it was good."
In the Hebrew, it clearly says the command was to bring forth FRUIT TREES YIELDING FRUIT.
The earth responded by bringing forth TREES YIELDING FRUIT.
The earth according to Judaism disobeyed the Word of God. Later in Genesis, it says that the earth was cursed for man's sake. The Rabbis believe God can not curse anything unless it does something wrong even if it is a benefit for or a curse for others.
Judaism believes that all the earth is alive, even as Jesus entered the city of Jerusalem after being asked to silence the people said "That if he did silence the people the rocks and trees would praise him.
Anyway... That is what the Jews believe. It is found in the Talmud.
Dr.Mychalson
Member
I'll have to get back to you on that...
Maybe it's in a midrash. But I seriously doubt it's mainstream Judaic teaching that's still accepted by the vast majority of Jews. It's true that some streams of Judaism have adopted a (monotheistic) pantheism, which explains Jesus' teaching about the rocks crying out. But I can't think that the earth itself sinning is a widespread Judaic belief.
Rabbi I see what you are saying but I have to pose this question... The verses you quote in Genesis are before the ending of the first chapter of Genesis... Would God curse something that at the culmination of creation he calls very good?... Brother Glen
Genesis 1:31 And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.
Dr.Mychalson
Member
Rabbi I see what you are saying but I have to pose this question... The verses you quote in Genesis are before the ending of the first chapter of Genesis... Would God curse something that at the culmination of creation he calls very good?... Brother Glen
Genesis 1:31 And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.
According to Judaism, yes. There is another story of The Sun and the Moon. They were of equal beauty and brilliance. But the Moon was not happy with this and complained to God that he should be brighter. God took the light away from the Moon and gave it to the Sun making it even brighter and the moon now would only reflect the light of the sun. Another story talks about the letter Bet. This letter was so proud that his letter was the first letter of the Alphabet and the first letter in the first word of the Bible Bereshit. God created the letter Aleph and to keep it from boasting made the letter Alpha, silent.
Dr.Mychalson
Member
Well, for me the only true stream of Judaism is the Orthodox branch. I understand how the Reformed and the Conservatives come to their conclusions but they destroy so many truths and traditions that all they are are empty shells with no foundation. That said the Orthodox have their issues too. I am not gonna argue this. It's only my opinion. Not worth much... I hold the Reformed and Conservative branches (I would add the Reconstructionist to this list) Responsible for destroying Judaism. They may have more members but size does not mean right.
I also believe the Orthodox are not right in a lot of places. In the end, they all need Jesus. He is the way, the truth, and the life, and no man can get to God the Father except through Him. (John 14:6)
Now let me start more trouble...
Did you know for a long time certain Jewish organizations deleted Isaiah 53 from their bibles and commentaries? Can you see why they did it?
Dr.Mychalson
Member
My Mistake... It comes from the Torah Anthology by Rabbi Aryeh Kaplan. Volume 1 on Genesis. Rabbi Kaplan quotes from many Jewish Authorities including the Talmud. I have not unpacked all my books yet. But I will look for it and post the references. I needed two U-Hauls to move my books and personal items. I have way too many books both Christian and Jewish.
Dr.Mychalson
Member
I grew up in a very Orthodox home. I came from a family of Rabbi's going back for generations. We were Cohen's guardians to the Law. (My father and Grandfather claimed they could trace their lineage to Biblical times. Their basic argument goes like this. Their father was taught by their father in an unbroken chain that has never ended. Basically, I believe my father was taught by his father and his father before him. I don't doubt this but how far it goes back I am unsure.)
During my youth, we use to play baseball at a local park. We played with a lot of Gentile children. Once while visiting I watch a movie with them called "The King of Kings," with Jeffrey Hunter. I can't explain it but I could never get that movie out of my head. Secretly I started to read books that would have made my father cringe. Even after being declared a Rabbi and being ordained I was always drawn to this movie. Finally, my search lead me to a man who answered all my questions. I became a Christian in March of 1977.
After my father found out I was kicked out of my childhood home. I was declared dead and my father and family had a funeral for me. Yes, I was buried and all remembrance of me was removed by my family, friends, and community. I attended my funeral. I saw them lower the pine box into the ground and no stone was ever placed on my grave. I was dead to all I knew.
I was blessed that my Christian family came to my rescue. I attended a school in New York City both a Christian and secular school. I have a Bachelors and Masters in Bible and Theology and a Doctoral degree in Apologetics. I also have all the education needed to be a Psychiatrist. Seems like my whole life has been attending school.
Anyway, that is how I became a Christian. I am thankful that my Messiah came and died for me so I may live.
Yes, the blue eyed Jesus, Jeffrey Hunter!
Would you agree that many Jewish people have this misunderstanding of Jesus as not even being really Jewish, or that the NT is somehow a Gentile bible? As the NT is through and through very Jewish!
"God saw that it was good"
A tree that bears fruit is a fruit tree. A tree that bears nuts is a nut tree. A plant that bears vegetables is a vegetable plant, etc..
And a redneck tree produces rednecks. They're plentiful in Kentucky. ;-)
Dr.Mychalson
Member
Again, this is how the Orthodox look at the Bible. To them, this is a discrepancy that needs to be explained. Rashi said yes, God called it good and at the end of the chapter he called it very good. But Rashi explains that these adorations "good" and "very good" at the end of the chapter were weak in their meaning when He could have said it was "great."
Dr.Mychalson
Member
In the Talmud, in the book of Sanhedrin, there are a few chapters that talk about Jesus. They try to prove that this Jesus is someone who lived nearly a hundred years earlier.
I think that most Jews give very little time even thinking about Jesus. If they do they think of all the hate that has come to them because of this man Jesus and His followers. As far as most Jews are concerned I believe they don't even think Jesus was a good teacher. Now I can't speak for all Jews but I think I stand on good ground for my viewpoint. Basically, the Jews just want to be left alone.
Remarkable thing though is that Jesus was the oerfect jew, as he always kept the Mosaic Law, and His teaching and life always modeled to us how we ought to live! Jews should appreciate Him for that!