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Narnia
- Thread starter buckster75
- Start date
eloidalmanutha
New Member
Very informative and comprehensive insight into why Christians view Narnia as imagery of Christianity, how behavioral Christianity is substituting the "real deal", and how this movie is going to affect children's immpressions of the Gospel now and in the future.
I had to highight these few paragraphs because I believe the author of this article states exactly what Christians need to know and understand about the agenda of Narnia.
quote:
In the book, the children actually do die and enter heaven. Of course, as we can see from the quoted passage, all sorts of creatures, both good and evil, do the same. Some people praise this book as an allegory of the gospel, but upon a closer look, it is not intended to bring one to Christ at all. It is simply a very misleading occult, New Age, fantasy tale, replete with supernaturally-powered animals, and the evil philosophy that regardless of how evil we are, we all have that spark of goodness in us for which God will surely take us to heaven.
Besides all the very apparent evil in the book—witches, magic, spells, demons, and more, there are several serious problems which can and will cause damage to our children.
A child reading the book, is, as advertised, “stepping into another world”—a world of fantasy. Lewis, like Disney, was a New Ager. He built entire surrealistic worlds for our children to escape into—escape from reality and from real life. These worlds invariably contain creatures of every sort endearing our children, performing heroic feats, and displaying often greater powers than our Savior displayed when He was on earth. Who will our children most readily identify as having awesome power—Lewis characters, Disney characters, some time-space traveling hero, or the almighty Jesus? Is it any wonder that we have a very difficult time convincing our children to give their all to Someone so far down the totem pole of their experience? Why should we cloud our children’s minds with meaningless fantasies which can, at their very best, only result in doubts and confusions about real spiritual things, and more seriously, open the floodgates of their minds to the advancing waves of captivating fantasies designed to introduce them to the world of Satan and the occult.
These Chronicles would be quite a misleading allegory. As we said, in the first book Aslan negotiated with Satan. Truly, our God has never needed to negotiate with His creation-turned-evil. Jesus did not negotiate with Satan before He went to the cross to die for mankind. It was foreordained before the foundation of the world!
If they were allegorical, these stories would be a faulty allegory because they imply a salvation by works rather than faith. What is worse, we have seen that children are taught that one can even be saved for evil works if they are done wholeheartedly. Certainly, one cannot serve Satan and count it as service for Christ, and then plead ignorance and enter heaven. The Bible says, “Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.” Acts 4:12.
Lastly, It would be better never to make the claim of allegory. The claim, itself, serves only to condemn the work as blasphemy. Romans 1:21-25 tells us, “Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, and changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things. Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves: who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.” You see, God commands that man never depict Him, the Divine Creator of the entire universe, as some beast walking around on all fours, named Aslan or otherwise. He also commands us never to view Him in such a comparatively despicable manner. What does this do to an impressionable mind? (See our Tolkien review for more on this.) Isaiah 5:20 says, “Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!” We need to be careful when we use the word “allegory” because God will hold us accountable for what we call Christian.
Again, an illogical argument. Can't you guys do any better? </font>[/QUOTE]Don't have to. Some people have ears to hear, other don't. Not a problem.Originally posted by rsr:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by eloidalmanutha:
the next thing ya know, they will be inviting Tilda Swinton (as Jardis, the White Witch)to teach sunday school . . .
quote:
Then one day in about 1980, my wife brought home an article in Psychology Today(tm) praising the new game Dungeons & Dragons(tm), which the author had used as a group therapy technique for teenagers. We were intrigued. From the sound of it, this was a game that would enable us to create adventures like those in some of our favorite Christian fiction--C.S. Lewis, J.R.R. Tolkein, George MacDonald. We immediately sought it out, and purchased a basic set.
The title of the article is:
“Confessions of a Dungeons & Dragons™ Addict”
you can read it in its entirety here:
http://www.mjyoung.net/dungeon/confess.html
it gets a little confusing near the end, but it is an interesting read none the less.
Then one day in about 1980, my wife brought home an article in Psychology Today(tm) praising the new game Dungeons & Dragons(tm), which the author had used as a group therapy technique for teenagers. We were intrigued. From the sound of it, this was a game that would enable us to create adventures like those in some of our favorite Christian fiction--C.S. Lewis, J.R.R. Tolkein, George MacDonald. We immediately sought it out, and purchased a basic set.
The title of the article is:
“Confessions of a Dungeons & Dragons™ Addict”
you can read it in its entirety here:
http://www.mjyoung.net/dungeon/confess.html
it gets a little confusing near the end, but it is an interesting read none the less.
Boanerges - pssst thats a game - and here I thought you could have figured that out since you had to click on the word GAMES in capital letters.
Wow congrats you reached a page and clearly - didnt get the point - it is for a GAME - that I played - During a time when I dealt with in nice terms hypocritical Christians. Would you like to know one of my email addresses?
sularis666@yahoo.com - I assume you know what the 666 means - but can you tell me what the Sularis means?
well ill help you - it means honour/goodness
I saw and see too many Christians having an overinflated opinion of one's self - in short saying - Im Christian and Im better then you heathen scum!
I chose that name - and that character to play because of the following reasons:
1) a reminder that EVERYONE is a sinner
2) the only difference is that I'm forgiven and they're not
3) a reminder not to be a holier then thou p***k
4) it was easier to play
If you dont believe me - I have some nice scars given unto me by Christians - you can come to Vietnam where I am working until March
Oh wow - we're heading to the D&D will mess you up and make you a serial killer argument!
Oh I can see how you can find it confusing
the article quotes at the end:
"... I said at the beginning that I wanted you to understand how a Christian could become a Dungeons & Dragons(tm) player. By now I hope I have made it clear why many more should. The fears and misgivings of many concerning the game are misguided and unfounded. It is a fabulous opportunity to explore and understand our own faith, and to share that faith with others. "
ELOID...
Read YOUR reply to me -
1)The Witch, however, claims Edmund's life as hers to take: "You at least know the Magic which the Emperor put into Narnia at the very beginning. You know that every traitor belongs to me as my lawful prey and that for every treachery I have a right to kill." (Lewis, 1986, p.128). Aslan then offers his own life in exchange for Edmund's;
Let's see hrm dont you think the Witch might get a little suspicious if Aslan says hey Ill trade you my life for all those you've killed in the past? Its symbolic of the Gospel
2) The book DOES NOT HAVE AN INCANTATION! If you refer to the movie - yes the movie screws up the book - ALL movies do so - it is inherent in the nature of movies to screw up the book on which it is based. Does this invalidate the book? Does the movie repudiate Christianity - When I see it I will tell you
Again I say unto you that Deeper Magic as referred to in the book is a reference to grace overpowering sin through justice being fulfilled by mercy
It is also not as you suppose it is - Magic is a term used by non-believers to refer to supernatural/miraculous events -
Let's say you were bald - and suddenly you grew a full head of hair through the act of your own will - What would you call that? magic? miracle?
As to the last bit of script - I actually see no problem with that - having read the entire series and understanding that God does expect to us go through trial and temptation in order to grow - How should we face trial and temptation - screaming like a little girl - or bravely - knowing that as long as we strive to do our best - God will do the rest, and in cases of human stupidity He will step in and do more
please I beg you in the name of God come up with one decent argument. If you condemn something first know the thing
I have a question for you
Why did Jesus ask for the cup to pass from Him?
[ December 19, 2005, 02:09 PM: Message edited by: blackbird ]
Wow congrats you reached a page and clearly - didnt get the point - it is for a GAME - that I played - During a time when I dealt with in nice terms hypocritical Christians. Would you like to know one of my email addresses?
sularis666@yahoo.com - I assume you know what the 666 means - but can you tell me what the Sularis means?
well ill help you - it means honour/goodness
I saw and see too many Christians having an overinflated opinion of one's self - in short saying - Im Christian and Im better then you heathen scum!
I chose that name - and that character to play because of the following reasons:
1) a reminder that EVERYONE is a sinner
2) the only difference is that I'm forgiven and they're not
3) a reminder not to be a holier then thou p***k
4) it was easier to play
If you dont believe me - I have some nice scars given unto me by Christians - you can come to Vietnam where I am working until March
Oh wow - we're heading to the D&D will mess you up and make you a serial killer argument!
Oh I can see how you can find it confusing
the article quotes at the end:
"... I said at the beginning that I wanted you to understand how a Christian could become a Dungeons & Dragons(tm) player. By now I hope I have made it clear why many more should. The fears and misgivings of many concerning the game are misguided and unfounded. It is a fabulous opportunity to explore and understand our own faith, and to share that faith with others. "
ELOID...
Read YOUR reply to me -
1)The Witch, however, claims Edmund's life as hers to take: "You at least know the Magic which the Emperor put into Narnia at the very beginning. You know that every traitor belongs to me as my lawful prey and that for every treachery I have a right to kill." (Lewis, 1986, p.128). Aslan then offers his own life in exchange for Edmund's;
Let's see hrm dont you think the Witch might get a little suspicious if Aslan says hey Ill trade you my life for all those you've killed in the past? Its symbolic of the Gospel
2) The book DOES NOT HAVE AN INCANTATION! If you refer to the movie - yes the movie screws up the book - ALL movies do so - it is inherent in the nature of movies to screw up the book on which it is based. Does this invalidate the book? Does the movie repudiate Christianity - When I see it I will tell you
Again I say unto you that Deeper Magic as referred to in the book is a reference to grace overpowering sin through justice being fulfilled by mercy
It is also not as you suppose it is - Magic is a term used by non-believers to refer to supernatural/miraculous events -
Let's say you were bald - and suddenly you grew a full head of hair through the act of your own will - What would you call that? magic? miracle?
As to the last bit of script - I actually see no problem with that - having read the entire series and understanding that God does expect to us go through trial and temptation in order to grow - How should we face trial and temptation - screaming like a little girl - or bravely - knowing that as long as we strive to do our best - God will do the rest, and in cases of human stupidity He will step in and do more
please I beg you in the name of God come up with one decent argument. If you condemn something first know the thing
I have a question for you
Why did Jesus ask for the cup to pass from Him?
[ December 19, 2005, 02:09 PM: Message edited by: blackbird ]
I have been reading this thread. It is quite fascinating. I saw Narnia this weekend and loved it. It was a great FANTASY movie. I would have no problems taking a child to see a make-believe story such as this.
Give me a break. The lady who played the witch likes Manson. Big deal, she has a horrible taste in music, in my book. Since when does the beliefs of an actor or actress ruin a movie? The way most actors believe in Hollywood, all movies would be horrible.
I loved the special effects. I loved the fact the lion sacrificed itself to save the man child.
What is wrong with giving children fantasy worlds in their stories.
When I was a kid, my favorite books were JRR Tolkien. Did I believe in hobbits? NOoooooooo! But, it was a fun read.
This argument is quite ridiculous. The movie was clean and except for the violence, it was quite mild for kids. Even the violence was reversed by the unthawing of the characters the witch turned into stone (ICE) or whatever.
Good movie. I'll probably buy the DVD and put it with my other fantasy DVD's.
Give me a break. The lady who played the witch likes Manson. Big deal, she has a horrible taste in music, in my book. Since when does the beliefs of an actor or actress ruin a movie? The way most actors believe in Hollywood, all movies would be horrible.
I loved the special effects. I loved the fact the lion sacrificed itself to save the man child.
What is wrong with giving children fantasy worlds in their stories.
When I was a kid, my favorite books were JRR Tolkien. Did I believe in hobbits? NOoooooooo! But, it was a fun read.
This argument is quite ridiculous. The movie was clean and except for the violence, it was quite mild for kids. Even the violence was reversed by the unthawing of the characters the witch turned into stone (ICE) or whatever.
Good movie. I'll probably buy the DVD and put it with my other fantasy DVD's.
Salamander
New Member
Phillip, in the same respect that Elvis singing Amazing Grace has the same implications of Saddam Hussein singing God Bless America.
Abstain from ALL appearances of evil is what God said, so why do so many "Christians" say different?
Maybe that "Christians" have become "smarter" than God?
Abstain from ALL appearances of evil is what God said, so why do so many "Christians" say different?
Maybe that "Christians" have become "smarter" than God?
Salamander
New Member
Oh, and since it is "thought" that the lion is Jesus as the Lion of the Tribe of Juda? Doesn't this also signify a comparison to the anti-christ as people "think" he is God?
Too many similarities to be acceptable. PERIOD!!!
Too many similarities to be acceptable. PERIOD!!!
Marcia
Active Member
I don't think C S Lewis had the horned god in mind with this character, Faunus. I think Lewis was into mythology and in his mind, was using mythological creatures who are considered to be part of the forest in mythology.
Is this a good thing? I'm not sure, but I would not say it is automatically bad. And I would not say that Faunus represents the horned god in Lewis' book. It is unfortunate that with the present revival of pagan polytheistic religions that some mythological creatures in some stories might be taken to represent pagan gods.
I saw the movie and was a uncomfortable with some of these creatures (the satyrs, and even Faunus) but it's because I actually have known and presently know people who worship some of the old pagan gods. However, I am able to separate the possibly valid reasons for my discomfort from what Lewis was doing or might have been intending. In fact, I would even go so far as to say that present day witches and pagans realize that Lewis was not seeing these creatures as pagan gods but as fantasy creatures from mythology.
BTW, I know Craig Hawkins and this is a good book for those interested.
That is quite an accusation. Maybe you are creating your own appearance of evil. I saw a fantasy movie, nothing more. The people in the theater saw a fantasy movie too.Originally posted by Salamander:
Phillip, in the same respect that Elvis singing Amazing Grace has the same implications of Saddam Hussein singing God Bless America.
Abstain from ALL appearances of evil is what God said, so why do so many "Christians" say different?
Maybe that "Christians" have become "smarter" than God?
I will say one thing...this is totally different than The Passion of Christ because it is WRITTEN as a fantasy. If there are metaphors relating back to the Bible, so be it. I saw it as a great work of artistic and clean entertainment.
So, by not seeing evil in it, you are assuming that I think I am smarter than God?