Nation of Christians no more???

[Bro. James]

A Nation of Christians? No more?

That carnal man has not taken Elohim seriously is evidenced in the history of this globe--all the way back to the first man--Adam; also through the progeny of Cain.

The signers of the Declaration of Independence were landed gentry with varied religious backgrounds including: Deists, Theists, Anglicans, etc.(saved? by their good works). Our first president was a mason--(33rd?) Having a federally supported religion was hotly debated, while some states already had, in effect, a "state" religion of sorts. The debate still rages, overtly and covertly. Try to follow Jesus, The Christ, the Son of the Living God in Utah or Idaho.

Will the real Christians please sound off?

Selah,

Bro. James

 

[NaasPreacher (C4K)]

Don't forget, they also broke the first commandment when they allowed the Hindu prayer... To me, the commandments are more important than the constitution.

You expect a secular state to hold to the 10 commandments?

 

[Analgesic]

Don't forget, they also broke the first commandment when they allowed the Hindu prayer... To me, the commandments are more important than the constitution.

However, I seriously doubt the founding fathers had the Hindu's in mind when they signed the Constitution.

This is just the first step down a slippery slope. It is a forewarning of what is to come...

The "slippery slope" is a logical fallacy.

 

[David Lamb]

On Thursday, a Hindu chaplain from Reno, Nevada, by the name of Rajan Zed is scheduled to deliver the opening prayer in the U.S. Senate. Zed tells the Las Vegas Sun that in his prayer he will likely include references to ancient Hindu scriptures, including Rig Veda, Upanishards, and Bhagavard-Gita.

Read it and weep .. vote the bums out.

It is indeed sad, but is there such a thing as a "nation of Christians"? And suppose the openning prayer had been given by a liberal "Christian" theologian - would that have been any more acceptable?

 

[NaasPreacher (C4K)]

I just don't understand this whole mindset that we love the Constitution when it protects Christians rights and privilages, but is upset when others benefit from the same rights.

I think this is a time to celebrate that we really are a free nation where there is freedom of religion for all.

For those who have strong anti-Catholic feelings - do you think it is acceptable for a Catholic minister to pray for the Senate?

 

[just-want-peace]

The "slippery slope" is a logical fallacy.

So we were told in '70 when abortions were to be only rarely used and then only for a very good reason!!! So much for "FALLACY"

And suppose the openning prayer had been given by a liberal "Christian" theologian - would that have been any more acceptable?

Flip side of this ?; remember the opening prayer of the Kansas, (I think) senate? A truly Christian prayer offered & many of the members were offended that the pastor spoke pure, raw truth; more than they could handle. Prayer follows:

Heavenly Father, we come before you today to ask your forgiveness and seek your direction and guidance. We know your Word says, "Woe to those who call evil good," but that's exactly what we've done. We have lost our spiritual equilibrium and inverted our values.
We confess that we have ridiculed the absolute truth of your Word and called it moral pluralism.
We have worshipped other gods and called it multi-culturalism.
We have endorsed perversion and called it an alternative lifestyle.
We have exploited the poor and called it the lottery.
We have neglected the needy and called it self-preservation.
We have rewarded laziness and called it welfare.
We have killed our unborn and called it choice.
We have shot abortionists and called it justifiable.
We have neglected to discipline our children and called it building esteem.
We have abused power and called it political savvy.
We have coveted our neighbors' possessions and called it ambition.
We have polluted the air with profanity and pornography and called it freedom of expression.
We have ridiculed the time-honored values of our fore-fathers and called it enlightenment.
Search us O God and know our hearts today; try us and see if there be some wicked way in us; cleanse us from every sin and set us free.
Guide and bless these men and women who have been sent here by the people of Kansas, and who have been ordained by you, to govern this great state. Grant them your wisdom to rule and may their decisions direct us to the center of your will. I ask it in the name of your son, the living savior, Jesus Christ. Amen.

 

[Eliyahu]

I just don't understand this whole mindset that we love the Constitution when it protects Christians rights and privilages, but is upset when others benefit from the same rights.

I think this is a time to celebrate that we really are a free nation where there is freedom of religion for all.

For those who have strong anti-Catholic feelings - do you think it is acceptable for a Catholic minister to pray for the Senate?

You are absolutely right only when we completely gave up the spirit of the founding fathers of the United States.

Did the founding fathers invite the Indians to pray to their gods?

 

[DQuixote]

One thing for sure, a secularist is going to view all this differently than a Christian. Then there are those who don't know the difference.

 

[NaasPreacher (C4K)]

You are absolutely right only when we completely gave up the spirit of the founding fathers of the United States.

Did the founding fathers invite the Indians to pray to their gods?

No we robbed them of their rights for over 100 more years.

What difference does it make anyway? How do you define freedom of religion? Is it only for those who consider themselves Christians? Is it only for evangelicals? Is it only for Baptists?

How can we allow all kinds of "Christians" to pray and deprive others of those same rights???

 

[DQuixote]

C4K, what exactly does the Constitution do about praying? Or not do?

 

[NaasPreacher (C4K)]

Nothing - but it does, in the 1st Amendment guarantee freedom of religion. America is a secular nation. The founder took great care to leave God out of the Constitution and in the very first amendment evidenced that by promising that no one could be prohibited from the exercise of their religion. Praying to open Congress is a tradition only - why, in a secular nation, which promises absolute freedom of religion, should a Hindu not be invited to pray?

Are people this upset when a Catholic priest prays? How wrong does one have to be before they should not be allowed to pray?

 

[Rooselk]

Did the founding fathers invite the Indians to pray to their gods?

No, they created a god of their own - or more specifically, a goddess. Dressed in Native American garb her name is Columbia and you can see her statue even today by looking atop the Capitol dome in Washington, DC. In fact the district that contains the capitol was named in her honor, as were other locations such as the Columbia River.

 

[Rooselk]

...What happened to ONE NATION UNDER GOD?

This is the first time in 200 years that a non-Christian prayer has opened the Senate.

The founding fathers must be turning over in their graves - not to mention what the one true God is thinking...

If you've read your history, then you know that the Founders chose e pluribus unum as our national motto, not "In God We Trust". Theodore Roosevelt even tried to have "In God We Trust" removed from our coinage, which was only been added during the Civil War.

 

[Eliyahu]

No, they created a god of their own - or more specifically, a goddess.

As Catholics did.

Dressed in Native American garb her name is Columbia and you can see her statue even today by looking atop the Capitol dome in Washington, DC.

As the statues of Mary all over the world.

In fact the district that contains the capitol was named in her honor, as were other locations such as the Columbia River.

As the state of Maryland.

But the spirit of the founding fathers was to fight the paganism in the beginning, and it was not contestested until the recent decades.

I wish All the Islam countries and Hindu countries allow and invite the Christians to pray for their nations in the name of the Savior Jesus Christ which is the only name by which one can be saved and by which one must be saved.

 

[Eliyahu]

No we robbed them of their rights for over 100 more years.

What difference does it make anyway? How do you define freedom of religion? Is it only for those who consider themselves Christians? Is it only for evangelicals? Is it only for Baptists?

How can we allow all kinds of "Christians" to pray and deprive others of those same rights???

But the founding fathers managed to reflect the Christian belief as much as possible even though there were many diversities of the Christianity at that time.

If you think the Congressmen just prayed when they started the session, you are far away from the truth. Not only did they pray in the beginning but also they studied the Bible at the House for more than 3 hours per day !
They did it everyday. This is why I showed you the site for Wallbuilders.com.
Can you believe this? Where do you think they learned about the system of US government and laws?

I said you are absolutely correct only when we completely gave up the spirit of the founding fathers. Indeed, U.S. have been running in that direction already, then we may have to give up such spirit, and just pursue the fair treatment for Christianity, sadly.

However, we must realize this. There will be always the reaction from God to our movement as there is reward to our decisions and actions, which are already noticeable in all the problems of drugs, gay, violence, abortion, etc.

 

[DQuixote]

Nothing - but it does, in the 1st Amendment guarantee freedom of religion. America is a secular nation. The founder took great care to leave God out of the Constitution and in the very first amendment evidenced that by promising that no one could be prohibited from the exercise of their religion.

That's the standard securalist response.

There's a book out now, titled "The Criminalization of Christianity" which you may want to check out. I'd also recommend wallbuilders.com. There are several others about our "founding fathers".

 

[Analgesic]

So we were told in '70 when abortions were to be only rarely used and then only for a very good reason!!! So much for "FALLACY"

The fact that the "slippery slope" argument is a fallacy doesn't have anything to do with whether the conclusion is true -- it denotes an invalid argument.

 

[NaasPreacher (C4K)]

That's the standard securalist response.

There's a book out now, titled "The Criminalization of Christianity" which you may want to check out. I'd also recommend wallbuilders.com. There are several others about our "founding fathers".

Of course, if you have no answer degrade your opponent by calling him a secularist.

Where am I wrong? Where is God in the Constitution? Where does the First Amendment say that free exercise is only for Christians? Catholics venerate their own goddess, why do we happily go along when Catholics pray in Congress but get upset when a member of another false religion prays? I don't know for certain, but I daresay that Mormons have prayed to open sessions of Congress. Would that be okay?

I would love to see someone's link to the fact that Congress had a three hour Bible study everyday.

 

[Joseph M. Smith]

It would be interesting to discover, if possible, whether a rabbi has ever opened a session of congress with prayer. Given our history and the influence of Jews in the life of our nation, I would be surprised if there has never been one. Senator Lieberman, get to work!

It may be that the offices of the Senate and House chaplains keep such a record. I do not know. The Congressional Record prints the name of the chaplain or guest and the wording of his/her prayer. I do know, as I stated in an earlier post, that this practice is entirely ceremonial and ritualistic, and I rather doubt that anyone really settles into a mood of prayer. It's a non-event, I am afraid. At least that was my experience on the one occasion I was brought in to pray before a session of the House, and that seems to be the case when I have happened to catch a session opening on C-Span.

 

[Rooselk]

Where am I wrong? Where is God in the Constitution? Where does the First Amendment say that free exercise is only for Christians? Catholics venerate their own goddess, why do we happily go along when Catholics pray in Congress but get upset when a member of another false religion prays? I don't know for certain, but I daresay that Mormons have prayed to open sessions of Congress. Would that be okay?

You are NOT wrong. As a matter of fact Christian conservatives referred to the Constitution as the "Godless Constitution" for the first 150 years following the ratification of that document. Moreover, Christians made many attempts add Constitutional amendments that would either include a mention of God or to specifically state that the United States was a Christian nation. All such efforts failed. It was only in the twentieth century that Christian conservatives changed tactics by wrapping themselves in the very Constitution they had previously criticised then making the claim that secularists and liberals were undermining the the intent of the Founders to found a nation built upon religious principles. The argument is not only bogus, it's at best a gross distortion of American history.