Nation of Christians no more???

[Joseph M. Smith]

According to this morning's news, some folks in the Senate gallery tried to shout down or "out-pray" the Hindu chaplain, and were removed by the Capitol police. No doubt they will feel very self-righteous about that. To me, it shows once again that these ritual prayers are just political posturing, and have no real spiritual meaning. Far better, if prayer is desired, that the presiding officer should declare a moment or two of silence, in which, each in his/her own words, each in his/her own tradition, might pray ... or meditate ... or just settle down in a moment of rare self-reflection. If I were to be invited again to lead one of these prayers, I think I might use the form of a bidding prayer -- "Let us now pray for ...." (silence) ... "And now let us pray for ..." etc.

 

[Chemnitz]

According to this morning's news, some folks in the Senate gallery tried to shout down or "out-pray" the Hindu chaplain, and were removed by the Capitol police. No doubt they will feel very self-righteous about that. To me, it shows once again that these ritual prayers are just political posturing, and have no real spiritual meaning. Far better, if prayer is desired, that the presiding officer should declare a moment or two of silence, in which, each in his/her own words, each in his/her own tradition, might pray ... or meditate ... or just settle down in a moment of rare self-reflection. If I were to be invited again to lead one of these prayers, I think I might use the form of a bidding prayer -- "Let us now pray for ...." (silence) ... "And now let us pray for ..." etc.

I really don't see how this is evidence that the prayers are merely political posturing. If it is evidence of anything, it is evidence of stupidity and rudeness of the people disrupting the mornings events.

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

Nothing - but it does, in the 1st Amendment guarantee freedom of religion. America is a secular nation. The founder took great care to leave God out of the Constitution and in the very first amendment evidenced that by promising that no one could be prohibited from the exercise of their religion. Praying to open Congress is a tradition only - why, in a secular nation, which promises absolute freedom of religion, should a Hindu not be invited to pray?

Are people this upset when a Catholic priest prays? How wrong does one have to be before they should not be allowed to pray?

GE:

Talking of rudeness! What could be more rude and cunning than to hinder all Christians present the freedom of their religion, than this Hindu insult?

 

[NaasPreacher (C4K)]

GE:

Talking of rudeness! What could be more rude and cunning than to hinder all Christians present the freedom of their religion, than this Hindu insult?

?? Wow - I really dont get this one

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

?? Wow - I really dont get this one

GE:

It's like Daniel and co. bow before the statue or ... Who are the rude? who are the tyrants? But who are forced against their will? No, not the Christians, the poor Hindi! The Christians are those intolerant manipulators!

Politics stinks! even in the American Senate!

 

[NaasPreacher (C4K)]

No one made the Senate bow in prayer or took away their freedoms. They could stand around like they always do during Senate prayers.

 

[David Lamb]

GE:

Talking of rudeness! What could be more rude and cunning than to hinder all Christians present the freedom of their religion, than this Hindu insult?

I wonder if you have some biblical authority for such a view. As far as I know (and I readily admit that my knowledge of scripture is by no means complete), there is no instance in the New Testament which would condone this. The apostles and other Christians had far more opposition for the sake of Christ than most of us will ever be called upon to face, yet they did not seek to "shout down" the many followers of false religion they met.

 

[av1611jim]

This episode further illustrates my continued assertion that this nation NEVER was a Christian nation. We were BORN in rebellion and as such we were not born of God.

Little by little the veil is being lifted and many people are beginning to see the TRUE nature of this country.

Thank God I am no longer a citizen of ANY country this world has to offer.

I seek a City not made with hands.....

 

[Chemnitz]

This episode further illustrates my continued assertion that this nation NEVER was a Christian nation. We were BORN in rebellion and as such we were not born of God.

Little by little the veil is being lifted and many people are beginning to see the TRUE nature of this country.

Thank God I am no longer a citizen of ANY country this world has to offer.

I seek a City not made with hands.....

What are you dead?
If you are still alive, you are still a citizen of some country.

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

I wonder if you have some biblical authority for such a view. As far as I know (and I readily admit that my knowledge of scripture is by no means complete), there is no instance in the New Testament which would condone this. The apostles and other Christians had far more opposition for the sake of Christ than most of us will ever be called upon to face, yet they did not seek to "shout down" the many followers of false religion they met.

GE:

I'm not American; so stand a good chance of talking about something I know nothing about. I do not though 'condone' the 'shouting down' ... or don't I? I have it against forcing false religion down the throat of Christians. In SA we with the transfer of government forsook Christian prayer and adopted new world 'prayer'. As Christian I cannot pray to a 'higher being' or any such thing - merely a creation of human imagination. But in your case it from my point of view is worse. Now the god of the heathen idolator is worshipped while the Christian should pay respect! The Christians stand helpless; what can they do? Shout that blasphemous praying dead!

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

Where are the days of an Oliver Cromwell who could sweep the candles and icons and stuff from the table in the House of God ...

 

[Chemnitz]

GE:

I'm not American; so stand a good chance of talking about something I know nothing about. I do not though 'condone' the 'shouting down' ... or don't I? I have it against forcing false religion down the throat of Christians. In SA we with the transfer of government forsook Christian prayer and adopted new world 'prayer'. As Christian I cannot pray to a 'higher being' or any such thing - merely a creation of human imagination. But in your case it from my point of view is worse. Now the god of the heathen idolator is worshipped while the Christian should pay respect! The Christians stand helpless; what can they do? Shout that blasphemous praying dead!

One of the nice things about the First Amendment is that it also gives us the right to not listen to that which we find offensive. We could have made our voice equally heard by not being there. Or do what I did when a mormon student lead the prayer at a graduation ceremony, sat quietly while staring off into space and twiddled my thumbs.

 

[Chemnitz]

Where are the days of an Oliver Cromwell who could sweep the candles and icons and stuff from the table in the House of God ...

No thanks, I'd rather skip out on a heathen prayer than put up with oppression.

 

[Eliyahu]

I wish I could see the Muslim countries, Hindu countries give up their privileges of their religions and allow Christians to pray and preach the Gospel in their countries so quickly and so easily as the U.S. forsake the spirit of the Christian founding fathers of their country.

 

[NaasPreacher (C4K)]

Where are the days of an Oliver Cromwell who could sweep the candles and icons and stuff from the table in the House of God ...

No thank you. No days of Cromwell for me. He was a freedom repressing tyrant who, in name of religion, condoned the raping and pillaging of Irish towns as he proclaimed to the Irish people - "To hell or to Connacht."

BTW, thank you for not shouting in this post .

 

[NaasPreacher (C4K)]

I wish I could see the Muslim countries, Hindu countries give up their privileges of their religions and allow Christians to pray and preach the Gospel in their countries so quickly and so easily as the U.S. forsake the spirit of the Christian founding fathers of their country.

So your answer is that we should be as oppressive as they are? This kind of freedom is what sets America apart from so many nations. We are free to worship the Lord according to our dictates - not compelled to do so.

 

[Eliyahu]

So your answer is that we should be as oppressive as they are? This kind of freedom is what sets America apart from so many nations. We are free to worship the Lord according to our dictates - not compelled to do so.

If we have more opportunities to preach the Gospel, to pray in the name of Jesus Christ, telling the truth of Gospel, does it mean the oppression of the freedom? Was Jesus a dictator because he preached the Gospel?

Was Paul instructing the dictatorship as he said about preaching the gospel as much as possible? Hope you know about the Christian way.

 

[NaasPreacher (C4K)]

If we have more opportunities to preach the Gospel, to pray in the name of Jesus Christ, telling the truth of Gospel, does it mean the oppression of the freedom? Was Jesus a dictator because he preached the Gospel?

Was Paul instructing the dictatorship as he said about preaching the gospel as much as possible? Hope you know about the Christian way.

I thank you for your concern for my soul. I can assure that I am certain of my salvation through Jesus Christ, but that is not the point here.

It seems that many Christians want liberty, but only for Christians. Some think that our freedoms are fine as long as we get to enjoy them, but heaven forbid anyone else enjoy those freedoms.

I miss the connection between Jesus preaching the gospel and dictatorship? How were anyone's right deprived by this man saying his pagan prayers? If that is the case are Jews, Hindi, and Muslims deprived of their rights every time a Christian prays?

Either we have freedom of religion or we don't. Which is is?

 

[Eliyahu]

I thank you for your concern for my soul. I can assure that I am certain of my salvation through Jesus Christ, but that is not the point here.

I never raised the question about your salvation in my post. Please check if you found any.

It seems that many Christians want liberty, but only for Christians. Some think that our freedoms are fine as long as we get to enjoy them, but heaven forbid anyone else enjoy those freedoms.

There is a certain style of God's working, and that is a certain freedom plus appealing. God never force anyone believe Him, but He appeals and teaches us to accept His truth.

I miss the connection between Jesus preaching the gospel and dictatorship?

Dictatorship was mentioned by you. I don't say the dictatorship, but talked the about the more opportunity and the superior position based on the spirit of the founding fathers. My point is that we can use the opportunities as much as possible, and moreover we have the founders who tried to reflect the Christian faith in the Establishment of the country. Were they wrong? We want the freedom, but once Islam dominates the U.S. can you expect such freedom of Religion when you see the countries of Muslim today?

How were anyone's right deprived by this man saying his pagan prayers? If that is the case are Jews, Hindi, and Muslims deprived of their rights every time a Christian prays?

Either we have freedom of religion or we don't. Which is is?

The Spirit of the Founding Fathers will disappear, and the opportunity of preaching the Truth to millions of unbelievers will disappear, millions of people who do not know about the Christian Truth will be kept in darkness.

Before the Muslims came to U.S., the U.S. citizens were praying in the name of Jesus, and the government offices were praying to God of Israel.
Why did they come to U.S. leaving their own country where they could pray to Allah enormously and indefinitely? If they found U.S. were not the place to live, they could return to their own country! Even now they can return to Muslim country or Hindu country where they can exercise their religion freely and abundantly in their paradises!

We don't deprive anyone of the freedom, they can close their eyes and ears and they have the sufficient amount of freedom which is much more than what the Chrsitians can enjoy in their own countries now. They can return to their own country any time. Why did they come to U.S. founded upon the Christian faith?

 

[NaasPreacher (C4K)]

I never raised the question about your salvation in my post. Please check if you found any.

What did you mean by "I hope you know the Christian way"?



I have no interest in a Christian state - none. Christian states force a false profession in order to conform. I want a free nation, where everyone is free to choose their own practice of their own religion.

If we can't handle freedom for all our faith in indeed small. The church thrives best under persecution. Perhaps it is time for the American church to thrive.

The Spirit of the Founding Fathers will disappear, and the opportunity of preaching the Truth to millions of unbelievers will disappear, millions of people who do not know about the Christian Truth will be kept in darkness.

Do you really believe that God is too weak to allow His word to be spread under persecution.

So far it seems to me that many think persecution is ok, as long as it happens to others.