Nativity Scenes and the Second Commandment

[Not_hard_to_find]

Several people have said that as long as you don't bow down and worship your idol of Christ then it is not really an idol.
Ok, then how can someone then say that someone can idolize their car or house etc?
Have you ever seen someone bow down and chant in from of their car?

I haven't. Does that mean that no one ever idolizes their car?

May I ask if your church has a cross?

 

[Dale-c]

May I ask if your church has a cross?

Sure, you can ask. The answer is no, we don't.

 

[Dale-c]

You are welcome to your opinion as well, just stop accusing people of idolatry based on your opinion.

Making false accusations about God's children does not honor God.

This is a discussion forum.
I am not accusing anyone in particular.

But I do believe that we need to take into consideration what God requires before we get offended ourselves.

I would much rather offend you or someone else here (though I don't wish to do that and it is not my intention) than to offend God.

 

[J.D.]

I am now going to turn the topic around a bit:

What is the NEED for pictures and images of Christ?

So we'll know what he looks like. Don't you know what he looks like? See my thread on the subject for a description of Jesus.

 

[rbell]

Several people have said that as long as you don't bow down and worship your idol of Christ then it is not really an idol.
Ok, then how can someone then say that someone can idolize their car or house etc?
Have you ever seen someone bow down and chant in from of their car?

I haven't. Does that mean that no one ever idolizes their car?

Let's face it, gang...he's not gonna be happy until we all admit to being idolatrous scofflaws...every last one of us.

Dale, how 'bout giving "priesthood of the believer" a try? There's a few of us in here that spend time with God and ask Him to reveal any wicked way in us. I promise ya, if He tells me to chunk the nativity set, then chunk it I will.

You, nor the article, has done anything to prove this.

So please stop accusing people of idolatry without any proof.

Thank you.

 

[annsni]

In my opinion, when something begins to take over our lives and takes priority over our relationship with others and more so with Christ, then it's an idol.

I like my nativity scenes. They're pretty on the china cabinet and my kids love to play with the Fisher Price one. They're not taking over our lives. They're not taking a huge place in our hearts. We do not bow down to them nor do they take time away from the Lord.

They are not idols.

As others have said, when you take those verses to say that nativities are evil, then ALL forms of images and likenesses are evil. Not just crosses but photos, dolls, stuffed animals, etc. My daughter's artwork would be evil and sinful. My little one's doll house dolls would be sinful. IF they are idols to you, then don't play with them. But you cannot say that they are evil for everyone else. Period. Hey - even GOD said to make a likeness of cherebum on the Ark - so I think there ARE distinctions to the second commandment.

 

[Dale-c]

Saying that you can separate the images of Christ from worship and religion is like saying that you can read porn without lust.

 

[Rubato 1]

'Some folk are just clueless. They don't have a clue. They can't get a clue...They couldn't get a clue if they smeared themselves with clue musk and did the clue mating dance in a field full of clues during clue mating season.'

hmmmmmm...

 

[I Am Blessed 24]

Saying that you can separate the images of Christ from worship and religion is like saying that you can read porn without lust.

I have several of my favorite Scriptures hanging on my walls.

Does that mean I've made an idol out of the Bible?

 

[Alcott]

Paul must have been teaching idolatry when he said, "But may it never be that I would boast, except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, through which the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world [Galatians 6:14].

 

[Dale-c]

I have several of my favorite Scriptures hanging on my walls.

Does that mean I've made an idol out of the Bible?

Surely you are not being serious?

 

[dan e.]

Surely you are not being serious?

That's funny....that's what I've been thinking throughout this entire discussion.

 

[Rubato 1]

Nice picture, Dale!

 

[Not_hard_to_find]

How can you harmonize the use of nativity scenes with the second commandment?

By understanding the second commandment to apply to anything that displaces Him from the wholeness of our attention and worship.

I also understand that the existence of images is not prohibited.

 

[Dale-c]

By understanding the second commandment to apply to anything that displaces Him from the wholeness of our attention and worship.

I also understand that the existence of images is not prohibited.

Hey, a nice and honest answer. I don't agree but it is at a glance a sensible answer.
And I do repect the honesty.

 

[menageriekeeper]

By understanding the second commandment to apply to anything that displaces Him from the wholeness of our attention and worship.

I also understand that the existence of images is not prohibited.

Hey, a nice and honest answer. I don't agree but it is at a glance a sensible answer.
And I do repect the honesty.

That's cute Dale. You implying the rest of us weren't giving you our honest opinion?

 

[rbell]

That's cute Dale. You implying the rest of us weren't giving you our honest opinion?

Not only are the rest of us dishonest, but idolatrous.

 

[DHK]

Exodus 20:3-4 Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth:

The context is God.
Thou shalt not make any graven image...(of God).

There were two commands (at least) broken when the Israelites danced around the golden calf.
1. They made an image of God.
2. They bowed down in front of it (worshiped it).
They are separate; not the same.

Thus an image of Christ (God) is wrong. It violates the same Commandement whether you worship it or not. Thou shalt not make any graven image or likeness thereof.
First you don't know what Christ looked like, so whatever likeness you give him would be deceitful and a lie if you are saying "this is Christ." That is what most pictures of Christ are saying.
In a nativity scene it is an actual image, saying this "represents" Christ, even as the calf "represented" Jehovah. The Israelites did not stop worshiping Jehovah. They only made an image to put in Jehovah's place. Then bowing down to the calf they continued to worship Jehovah.

The command still stands. Thou shalt not make any graven image or likeness thereof. The context is "of God."

 

[Gold Dragon]

The context is God.
Thou shalt not make any graven image...(of God).

"or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth:"


The word "or" performs a very specific grammatical function you are conveniently ignoring to fit your pretext.

 

[DHK]

"or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth:"


The word "or" performs a very specific grammatical function you are conveniently ignoring to fit your pretext.

Exodus 20:4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth:

There is the entire verse. I don't ignore any part of it. I only quoted it in part to save space. The Israelites made an image of a calf. They could have made an image of a whale (under the sea), or the sun (in the heaven above). Any image of God is wrong. Any image that takes the place of God is wrong. Both are wrong. Not only the worship of Baal (another god) was wrong, but an image of Israel's God was wrong. God condemned them both. Making any image of God was absolutely wrong.