Natural man

[psalms109:31]

scripture

Even you believe it is not the same body it will returned to the dust, so that is the natural body.

The spiritual one is the one we will be resurrected in.

I do believe in the power of God.

The body is only a vessel. God destroyes the corrupt and puts us in the incorruptible. What is on the outside does not make who you are in the inside.

Your flesh counts for nothing who cares what happens to it. We will be raise in a spiritual body.

The old will be gone and the new will come in.

 

[Brother Bob]

psalms;
He uses the same dust so it will be a resurrection. Please I am not quarreling with you about having a perfect body but it will be the same it for it to be a resurrection. Think about it it it !!!!!! peace

 

[webdog]

Even you believe it is not the same body it will returned to the dust, so that is the natural body.

The spiritual one is the one we will be resurrected in.

I do believe in the power of God.

The body is only a vessel. God destroyes the corrupt and puts us in the incorruptible. What is on the outside does not make who you are in the inside.

Your flesh counts for nothing who cares what happens to it. We will be raise in a spiritual body.

The old will be gone and the new will come in.

No such thing as a "spiritual body". A body is substance.

Lazarus' body was resurrected...not replaced. Where do you think his soul was during those four days? I just finished a blog about Lazarus I started last month (due to the site being down).

http://webdog.baptistblog.org/

 

[psalms109:31]

Death

Lazarus' body was resurrected in death, he still had the body of death.

He doesn't use the same dust of this world, then we would have the same worldly body.

But we are given a spiritual body that craves God.

heaven and earth will disapear and a new heaven and earth will come down just as our new bodies.

Do we still desire a worldly body or a body that comes from God.

Earthly body and the spiritual body is not the same body!!!

 

[Brother Bob]

One last try!
If it is another body it will not be a resurrection and against everything the body says.

"as we have borne the image of the earthly we shall also bear the image of the Heavenly."

It is the same dust that will be resurrected. The same body but Glorified.

I do not believe in another creation but I do believe in the resurrection. If you believe in a creation then you do not believe as I do. I think you need to study and think on this a while before posting for what you are saying is completely against the word of God.

 

[LeBuick]

Wait, you guys are implying we will see GOD in our same bodies? Are you sure about this? I know we will have a spiritual body but I can't see flesh being in heaven.

2Cor.5
[1] For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.
[2] For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven:
[3] If so be that being clothed we shall not be found naked.
[4] For we that are in this tabernacle do groan, being burdened: not for that we would be unclothed, but clothed upon, that mortality might be swallowed up of life.
[5] Now he that hath wrought us for the selfsame thing is God, who also hath given unto us the earnest of the Spirit.
[6] Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord:
[7] (For we walk by faith, not by sight)
[8] We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.

 

[webdog]

Wait, you guys are implying we will see GOD in our same bodies? Are you sure about this? I know we will have a spiritual body but I can't see flesh being in heaven.

2Cor.5
[1] For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.
[2] For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven:
[3] If so be that being clothed we shall not be found naked.
[4] For we that are in this tabernacle do groan, being burdened: not for that we would be unclothed, but clothed upon, that mortality might be swallowed up of life.
[5] Now he that hath wrought us for the selfsame thing is God, who also hath given unto us the earnest of the Spirit.
[6] Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord:
[7] (For we walk by faith, not by sight)
[8] We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.

Christ had a "fleshly" body when He ascended into Heaven. He ate after rising from the dead, walked, talked, and even had Thomas feel his hands and side. Our bodies in their current state are not fit for Heaven. God will change that. The resurrection of our bodies is a staple in Christianity, in the same way Christ was resurrected.

 

[Brother Bob]

I have heard a few in my life time say we would get a different body but not many for a different body would make the bible out to be a lie for the whole purpose in accepting Christ is to live again in Heaven. Paul said "thou fool how can that be quickened except it first die". In other words our bodies as webdog said cannot go to Heaven in this present form but must be changed to a Heavenly body. It will be the same body changed or it would not be a resurrection. If you don't believe this body will live again then you do not believe in a resurrection and you should not preach one and it goes against everything the Holy Scriptures says. Anything other than this body living again would be "a creation" and my bible does not teach me to preach that.

Romans, chapter 8

"23": And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.

 

[Jarthur001]

Hello...

This is just for whatever its worth. I was teaching in 2 Cor ...2 months ago. I found that everybody and their brother had their own idea about verse 8 listed below. I bet i read 20 or more views on this. I spent more time on verse 8 then the rest of the chapter put together. In the end...I took no side, for I did not see a major point to be made. 20% agreed in a idea of a body in between the old and new body..but went other ways after that. Anyway..just information..for whatever its worth.

2Cor.5
[1] For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.
[2] For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven:
[3] If so be that being clothed we shall not be found naked.
[4] For we that are in this tabernacle do groan, being burdened: not for that we would be unclothed, but clothed upon, that mortality might be swallowed up of life.
[5] Now he that hath wrought us for the selfsame thing is God, who also hath given unto us the earnest of the Spirit.
[6] Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord:
[7] (For we walk by faith, not by sight)
[8] We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.

In Christ..James

 

[Brother Bob]

[1] For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.
[2] For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven:
[3] If so be that being clothed we shall not be found naked.
[4] For we that are in this tabernacle do groan, being burdened: not for that we would be unclothed, but clothed upon, that mortality might be swallowed up of life.
[5] Now he that hath wrought us for the selfsame thing is God, who also hath given unto us the earnest of the Spirit.
[6] Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord:
[7] (For we walk by faith, not by sight)
[8] We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord

Now you have floored me James; to be absent from the body and present with the Lord is while we are still living.

Romans, chapter 8
18": For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.

"19": For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.

"20": For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,

"21": Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.

"22": For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.

"23": And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.

I guess I should not be surprised. saddens me unless I misread you.

What is a resurrection?

 

[Jarthur001]

Now you have floored me James; to be absent from the body and present with the Lord is while we are still living.

I guess I should not be surprised. saddens me unless I misread you.

What is a resurrection?

Bob,

As I said in my 1st quote I have no side on this. I read 20 or more views and your view is only one of many. If you share good reason for me to believe as you do, maybe I'll change. As of now, I have seen nothing to hold on to.


Post your proof...I'll read it.


In Christ...James

 

[Brother Bob]

Post your proof...I'll read it.


In Christ...James

I just did but the biggest proof is whether you believe in a resurrection.

Romans, chapter 8

"23": And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.


1 Corinthians, chapter 15
"12": Now if Christ be preached that he rose from the dead, how say some among you that there is no resurrection of the dead?

"13": But if there be no resurrection of the dead, then is Christ not risen:

"14": And if Christ be not risen, then is our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain.

"15": Yea, and we are found false witnesses of God; because we have testified of God that he raised up Christ: whom he raised not up, if so be that the dead rise not.

"16": For if the dead rise not, then is not Christ raised:

"17": And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins.

"18": Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished.

"19": If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable.

"20": But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.

"21": For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.

"22": For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

If I have to prove to you that a resurrection mean to live again I don't know what to say James?

 

[LeBuick]

Christ had a "fleshly" body when He ascended into Heaven. He ate after rising from the dead, walked, talked, and even had Thomas feel his hands and side. Our bodies in their current state are not fit for Heaven. God will change that. The resurrection of our bodies is a staple in Christianity, in the same way Christ was resurrected.

Correct, a body that his mother and men who walked closely with him 3 years didn't recognize. Don't forget this body walked through a door with out opening it and had it's blood drained on calvery. Thomas did not tough Jesus, Jesus offered to let him touch him.

I was hoping for a new body since I kind of abused this one. One as Paul said, not made my hands... Read what Paul says, you must be absent from the body to be with the Lord.

Lk 24:[36] And as they thus spake, Jesus himself stood in the midst of them, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you.
[37] But they were terrified and affrighted, and supposed that they had seen a spirit.
[38] And he said unto them, Why are ye troubled? and why do thoughts arise in your hearts?
[39] Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.

So i agree we'll have a body but it says the only ones who saw the resurrected Christ, "supposed that they had seen a spirit." This tells me there was some different regarding the appearence of this body. However, we know fromabove it had flesh and bones.

 

[Brother Bob]

Resurrection

anastasis an-as'-tas-is from 450; a standing up again, i.e. (literally) a resurrection from death (individual, genitive case or by implication, (its author)), or (figuratively) a (moral) recovery (of spiritual truth):--raised to life again, resurrection, rise from the dead, that should rise, rising again.

I even believe He will call us by name, I don't know about you but I do. If not then why the Lamb's Book of Life.

 

[LeBuick]

I have heard a few in my life time say we would get a different body but not many for a different body would make the bible out to be a lie for the whole purpose in accepting Christ is to live again in Heaven. Paul said "thou fool how can that be quickened except it first die". In other words our bodies as webdog said cannot go to Heaven in this present form but must be changed to a Heavenly body. It will be the same body changed or it would not be a resurrection. If you don't believe this body will live again then you do not believe in a resurrection and you should not preach one and it goes against everything the Holy Scriptures says. Anything other than this body living again would be "a creation" and my bible does not teach me to preach that.

Romans, chapter 8

"23": And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.

But Bob, read 2 corinth. [1] For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.

It does not say the same body. What about people who die of mutilation, accidents etc... Will they live with missing limbs the remainder of their eternity?

 

[Brother Bob]

It does not say the same body. What about people who die of mutilation, accidents etc... Will they live with missing limbs the remainder of their eternity?

Yes James but their body will be complete again without any nature about it. No tears, no pain, no old age, no missing limbs, no heart like mine with missing parts or my body with missing veins and parts but will be a perfect body. Look at it this way. God hath power over the clay of which our bodies are to make one unto honor and another unto dishonor. Who do you think is going to make it over new, it sure won't be with hands but by the mighty power of God from Heaven, amen.

Remember, it is a "resurrection" and if its another body it is impossible to be a resurrection. I think you believe in a resurrection don't you?

 

[Jarthur001]

I just did but the biggest proof is whether you believe in a resurrection.

Romans, chapter 8

"23": And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.


1 Corinthians, chapter 15
"12": Now if Christ be preached that he rose from the dead, how say some among you that there is no resurrection of the dead?

"13": But if there be no resurrection of the dead, then is Christ not risen:

"14": And if Christ be not risen, then is our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain.

"15": Yea, and we are found false witnesses of God; because we have testified of God that he raised up Christ: whom he raised not up, if so be that the dead rise not.

"16": For if the dead rise not, then is not Christ raised:

"17": And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins.

"18": Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished.

"19": If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable.

"20": But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.

"21": For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.

"22": For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

If I have to prove to you that a resurrection mean to live again I don't know what to say James?

Bob,

Of course I believe in the resurrection. You text supports your view. Yet we were talking about 2 Cor 5

1For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.

dissolve = death
a house eternal...is after death

2For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven:

our house which is in heaven...comes after death

3If so be that being clothed we shall not be found naked.

naked? Nope..we will always have a body of some kind.

4For we that are in this tabernacle do groan, being burdened: not for that we would be unclothed, but clothed upon, that mortality might be swallowed up of life.

This tabernacle.....the body we have now...before death
but clothed upon....in another body

5Now he that hath wrought us for the selfsame thing is God, who also hath given unto us the earnest of the Spirit.

6Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord:

Home in the body...on earth..before death
absent with the Lord....in heaven..after death

7(For we walk by faith, not by sight

8We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.

absent from the Body...death
present with the Lord....in heaven

This is how most read it. Yet where they disagree...what happens between death and the resurrection? That is where all the views come from. You view is only one of many.

 

[Brother Bob]

This is how most read it. Yet where they disagree...what happens between death and the resurrection? That is where all the views come from. You view is only one of many.

Sorry James;
I got you now. Well this is my belief what happens between death and the resurrection. I believe God sends Angels to gather up our souls and carrys them to Heaven where they are "at rest in Jesus" until the resurrection when the Lord comes again and then He will bring our souls and reunite them with our bodies and both soul and body will meet the Lord in the air and foreveryly be with him.

1 Thessalonians, chapter 4
"13": But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.

"14": For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

"15": For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

"16": For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

"17": Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

"18": Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

Glad we got that straighten out James and sry I misunderstood you, peace

 

[Marcia]

Job scripture shows that his flesh was destroyed. That in my flesh can also be translated apart from my flesh i will see God.

If it is destroyed then it is apart from my flesh, and if it is in that it is in the new body.

These two bodies are not the same one is a natural body and the other is a spiritual body.

I do not see how you can say it is the same body. They can't be

We agree with one being a natural, and one is a spiritual, then we agree with each other.

It sown natural, then it being raised spiritual is saying they are not the same.

Changed to one to the other in a blink of an eye.

take off the old and put on the new

You fail to understand that spiritual body does not mean a ghostly body with no substance. The spiritual body, as seen in the body of the resurrected Jesus, had substance.

"It is sown natural and it is raised spiritual" could not be more clear. It is the same body. God is perfectly able to raise even the body of someone burned in a fire and transform it to the spiritual body.

It is new in the sense that it will be a body we did not have before because it will be transformed. Just as I am a new creature in Christ but I have not changed into another person. I am still me, but transformed spiritually through salvation. Same thing with the body.

 

[Brother Bob]

LeBuick;
The Scripture says when you awake in the likeness of Jesus you will be satisfied, so not to worry.