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Nature of Our Enemy

carpro

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Originally posted by King James:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by carpro:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Kiffen:
I support the cause for Victory BUT that does not mean I am to rubber stamp every thing Bush and Rumsfeld wants to do. That would mean we have more in common with Stalinist Russia than the Founding Fathers. In every War there has been criticism of the President and that is what makes our Constitutional Republic great.

I have serious problems with the way we got into Iraq and the way the military is being used. Our first obligation is to the US Constitution and not a President.

I support victory in the War in Iraq but hopefully future Presidents and West Point and VMI graduates will learn from this war when future wars arise. We should not rubber stamp every thing a President does. Neither Madison nor Jefferson would affirm such a philosophy.
So you support their mission as well as "supporting the troops". Good for you.

It's almost impossible to get a lot of liberals to say what you did.
</font>[/QUOTE]Now you can no longer spout off sweeping generalizations eh? And I agree with him.
</font>[/QUOTE]Why didn't you just say so?
 
O

OCC

Guest
Originally posted by King James:
Right on Kiffen
thumbs.gif
I think I just "said so" right here.
 

Plain Old Bill

New Member
Fact: Wars never go as planned.
Fact: Many generals and politicians have planned perfect wars.
Fact: Something always went wrong and they had to change thier plans.
 

Dragoon68

Active Member
Originally posted by Kiffen:
I support the cause for Victory BUT that does not mean I am to rubber stamp every thing Bush and Rumsfeld wants to do. That would mean we have more in common with Stalinist Russia than the Founding Fathers. In every War there has been criticism of the President and that is what makes our Constitutional Republic great.

I have serious problems with the way we got into Iraq and the way the military is being used. Our first obligation is to the US Constitution and not a President.

I support victory in the War in Iraq but hopefully future Presidents and West Point and VMI graduates will learn from this war when future wars arise. We should not rubber stamp every thing a President does. Neither Madison nor Jefferson would affirm such a philosophy.
I appreciate your thoughts and I'm very happy to know you support victory in Iraq!

We certainly do have the freedom to speak our minds in this country and that's a good thing. Our Constitution essentially documents that freedom as one of several designed to protect citizens from excess power of government. I'm relatively sure we agree on that!

However, with every freedom comes a responsibility. The Constitution does not address these because, in this respect, it is not about our duty to our nation but about protections for us. Never the less, we are still very much responsible for what we say and the impact it has upon others.

In this case, we are actively fighting a war. We are not debating whether or not we should fight this war. We are already fighting it. We must therefore be very careful about how we express our thoughts keeping in mind the impact it may have upon those fighting the war on our behalf as well as the eventual outcome of the conflict. There are some arguments that are best put aside until another day in the interests of others.

I doubt any of us would, if given the chance, do everything in the manner our President and Congress have done in this war. Many of us have differing ideas about what we should do. But, again, we're already doing it and we have our hands full with that.

We can continue to fight among ourselves over how we're doing it or we can join together to fight our enemies. This war is a serious effort and it requires our full support. The next one may be even worse and we'd better learn to cooperative or our enemies will defeat us buy our own lack of resolve.

For a separate line of thinking: I believe we - through Congress - should evaluate our whole foreign policy strategy and develop lasting long term objectives to be given to our President for executive implementation. This policy should include the level to which Americans want to defend causes they consider important to our long term security. I believe we should reassess many of our positions around the world asking the difficult questions about how committed we really are to them. If current agreements don't fit that plan then we need to change them before we get further committed by some future action outside our control. We need a plan that goes beyond the term of a President. We need a high level plan not just something based on current budgets. We need to prioritize our resources according to those things most important to us and then stick with them. That would be a real challenge for our Congress and something we'd have to push them hard to accomplish. It could, potentially, move a bit more foreign policy decisions from the President to Congress and yet give the President more latitude in execution of the agreed upon plans.

One pending case in point comes to mind: What would America - its citizens - really be willing to support if China were to attack Taiwan? If we debate that now, before it happens, then perhaps we can be more aligned on our response if it should come. We need to know now how much we're willing to give and be completely realistic about the potential risks, benefits, and costs.
 

poncho

Well-Known Member
"We certainly do have the freedom to speak our minds in this country and that's a good thing."

For how much longer? LINK

"Our Constitution essentially documents that freedom as one of several designed to protect citizens from excess power of government."

For how much longer? LINK

Congressman Ron Paul’s office has notified infowars.com that the Patriot Act reauthorization is set to pass the House on Thursday or Friday. As things stand now, there may be even less votes against the legislation this time than for the vote on October 27, 2001.

Paul’s office said that they’re throwing everything at them at once: CAFTA, the Supreme Court nomination, and making the Patriot Act permanent.

Every American needs to contact Congress and tell them to control our borders, not butcher the Bill of Rights. Remember, Congress wasn’t even allowed to read the Patriot Act in 2001. This time, they know what they’re doing. They just hope we don’t.


"I'm relatively sure we agree on that!"

Sure who wouldn't agree with that, the excessively powerful government and it's global masters maybe?

By Phyllis Schlafly
7-17-5

The Council on Foreign Relations (CFR) has just let the cat out of the bag about what's really behind our trade agreements and security partnerships with the other North American countries. A 59-page CFR document spells out a five-year plan for the "establishment by 2010 of a North American economic and security community" with a common "outer security perimeter."

"Community" means integrating the United States with the corruption, socialism, poverty and population of Mexico and Canada. "Common perimeter" means wide-open U.S. borders between the U.S., Mexico and Canada.

"Community" is sometimes called "space" but the CFR goal is clear: "a common economic space ... for all people in the region, a space in which trade, capital, and people flow freely." The CFR's "integrated" strategy calls for "a more open border for the movement of goods and people."

The CFR document lays "the groundwork for the freer flow of people within North America." The "common security perimeter" will require us to "harmonize visa and asylum regulations" with Mexico and Canada, "harmonize entry screening," and "fully share data about the exit and entry of foreign nationals."

This CFR document, called "Building a North American Community," asserts that George W. Bush, Mexican President Vicente Fox, and Canadian Prime Minister Paul Martin "committed their governments" to this goal when they met at Bush's ranch and at Waco, Texas on March 23, 2005. The three adopted the "Security and Prosperity Partnership of North America" and assigned "working groups" to fill in the details.

It was at this same meeting, grandly called the North American summit, that President Bush pinned the epithet "vigilantes" on the volunteers guarding our border in Arizona.

A follow-up meeting was held in Ottawa on June 27, where the U.S. representative, Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff, told a news conference that "we want to facilitate the flow of traffic across our borders." The White House issued a statement that the Ottawa report "represents an important first step in achieving the goals of the Security and Prosperity Partnership."

The CFR document calls for creating a "North American preference" so that employers can recruit low-paid workers from anywhere in North America. No longer will illegal aliens have to be smuggled across the border; employers can openly recruit foreigners willing to work for a fraction of U.S. wages.

Just to make sure that bringing cheap labor from Mexico is an essential part of the plan, the CFR document calls for "a seamless North American market" and for "the extension of full labor mobility to Mexico."

The document's frequent references to "security" are just a cover for the real objectives. The document's "security cooperation" includes the registration of ballistics and explosives, while Canada specifically refused to cooperate with our Strategic Defense Initiative (SDI).

To no one's surprise, the CFR plan calls for massive U.S. foreign aid to the other countries. The burden on the U.S. taxpayers will include so-called "multilateral development" from the World Bank and the Inter-American Development Bank, "long-term loans in pesos," and a North American Investment Fund to send U.S. private capital to Mexico.

The experience of the European Union and the World Trade Organization makes it clear that a common market requires a court system, so the CFR document calls for "a permanent tribunal for North American dispute resolution." Get ready for decisions from non-American judges who make up their rules ad hoc and probably hate the United States anyway.

The CFR document calls for allowing Mexican trucks "unlimited access" to the United States, including the hauling of local loads between U.S. cities. The CFR document calls for adopting a "tested once" principle for pharmaceuticals, by which a product tested in Mexico will automatically be considered to have met U.S. standards.

The CFR document demands that we implement "the Social Security Totalization Agreement negotiated between the United States and Mexico." That's code language for putting illegal aliens into the U.S. Social Security system, which is bound to bankrupt the system.

Here's another handout included in the plan. U.S. taxpayers are supposed to create a major fund to finance 60,000 Mexican students to study in U.S. colleges.

To ensure that the U.S. government carries out this plan so that it is "achievable" within five years, the CFR calls for supervision by a North American Advisory Council of "eminent persons from outside government . . . along the lines of the Bilderberg" conferences.

The best known Americans who participated in the CFR Task Force that wrote this document are former Massachusetts Governor William Weld and Bill Clinton's immigration chief Doris Meissner. Another participant, American University Professor Robert Pastor, presented the CFR plan at a friendly hearing of Senator Richard Lugar's Foreign Relations Committee on June 9.

Ask your Senators and Representatives which side they are on: the CFR's integrated North American Community or U.S. sovereignty guarded by our own borders.

SOURCE
So what is the "cause"? To bring democracy to the world and make America safer or put our constitutional republic in checkmate? There is only a couple moves left on the chessboard. Your playing by the rules, the rulers aren't. Is that the kind of America you want to hand to your children? A North-American community controlled by special interests and socialist global elites and a massive police state controlled by the executive that is controlled by the same elites?

While your focused on winning the war in Iraq your not seeing that we are losing our republic to neo cheaters of the socialist [communist?] elite, and that my friend is very sad indeed.
 

Plain Old Bill

New Member
Question on the Patriot Act. I watch C-SPAN alot but did'nt see much talk or debate on the act. I thought it was going to get a tune-up so our rights would not be trampled on.Does anybody KNOW ANY FACTS regarding the bill.
 

StraightAndNarrow

Active Member
I'd say you're fighting the wrong battle.

Eph 6:11 Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.
Eph 6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high [places].
 

Dragoon68

Active Member
Originally posted by Dragoon68:
We certainly do have the freedom to speak our minds in this country and that's a good thing.
Originally posted by poncho:
For how much longer?
Originally posted by Dragoon68:
Our Constitution essentially documents that freedom as one of several designed to protect citizens from excess power of government.
Originally posted by poncho:
For how much longer?
For as long as we have the resolve to defend it!
 

poncho

Well-Known Member
I hope you got alot of resolve then considering this war started in 1805 with the betrayal of the one we were backing at the time.
 

hillclimber

New Member
Originally posted by poncho:
I hope you got alot of resolve then considering this war started in 1805 with the betrayal of the one we were backing at the time.
I can't figure out what you are refering to.
 

Dragoon68

Active Member
Originally posted by poncho:
I hope you got alot of resolve then considering this war started in 1805 with the betrayal of the one we were backing at the time.
We, all of us together, need to show a lot of resolve and strongly support the cause. Our nation needs it to win the war we have before us and we'll need it even more as the struggle continues or expands in other areas.

Are you claiming that the United States of America started the war we're fighting today in Iraq against terrorism in 1805 which was 290 years ago? I don't believe that for a second!

Empire in Arms the Napoleonic Wars of 1805 - 1815

Maybe it's in the game script somewhere or are you truly serious about this claim?

Perhaps it's the same kind of misread "little bits" of history such as claiming that Ho Chi Minh was a good guy who became a Communist just because President Truman didn't respond to his letter.
 

poncho

Well-Known Member
"Are you claiming that the United States of America started the war we're fighting today in Iraq against terrorism in 1805 which was 290 years ago? I don't believe that for a second!"

Of course you don't believe it, you seem to be under the impression that history shows that every adventure the US has undertaken was for the good of the people and a righteous cause. I think if you had an open mind you'd see that most of the time these causes just served to enrich the rich and powerful and the rich and powerful sold it to the people as a righteous cause.

Like intentionally giving blankets infected with the smallpox virus to the Indians was good for the people. Loving Christian charity, right? No, those "savages" (subhuman creatures) had something we wanted...land! The sooner we ran them off, killed their families and crammed them onto reservations to control them the better.

Tripoli set a precedent 200 and some odd years ago. Funding, arming and making promises to an ally then breaking those promises and making enemies through political backstabbing. But your going to take your faith in the flag and try to cover all the evidence of wrong doing, naturally.

"Perhaps it's the same kind of misread "little bits" of history such as claiming that Ho Chi Minh was a good guy who became a Communist just because President Truman didn't respond to his letter."

Actually no not just this one incident, communism is the anti-thesis to the American idea of government, all power is inherent in the people. The synthesis will be a one world government run by unelectd elites. With (North) America as a controlled regional state along with with Canada, Mexico and Latin America. That's the real cause, to build the NWO. The real enemies of freedom are the elite that have been planning and carrying this out for a very long time. (Behind the scenes)
 

LadyEagle

<b>Moderator</b> <img src =/israel.gif>
poncho, the smallpox story is a lie that was made up by that evil professor in Colorado, Ward Churchill.
 

Dragoon68

Active Member
Originally posted by poncho:
... I think if you had an open mind you'd see that most of the time these causes just served to enrich the rich and powerful and the rich and powerful sold it to the people as a righteous cause. ... Actually no not just this one incident, communism is the anti-thesis to the American idea of government, all power is inherent in the people. The synthesis will be a one world government run by unelected elites. With (North) America as a controlled regional state along with Canada, Mexico and Latin America. That's the real cause, to build the NWO. The real enemies of freedom are the elite that have been planning and carrying this out for a very long time. ...
Thanks for the reply. I think it is clear where you stand on these things. I'm on the opposite side. I expect that's where I'll remain.

Satan wants us to "have an open mind" to a lot of things because thereby lies are able to displace truth. I don't completely discredit the phrase itself because in certain context it has a good meaning. However, in this case, its a reminder that Satan does want Americans to loose confidence in the nation we have built and the causes we have endured.

Satan knows God has blessed us and he wants us to turn against Him in all that we do. He wants us to divide and to side with our enemies because that will serve their purposes and his. We have before us today a continuous stream of discredits to all that America does and has done.

Certainly there have been errors but the sum total of it all is far different than this unwarranted attack upon our history. America has always improved from its errors and sought to do better whilst many other nations have only declined further in their misdeeds. It has given courageously and generously of itself for the better of many others far outside its boundaries. It has been an example for many and even so among those states not so friendly to us. America is not at all the culprit of the world's problems as many want it to be. This, Christian friends, is the greater evil conspiracy which I see at work today.

I don't believe in the "New World Order" of one international government. I strongly oppose such a concept. America must remain a sovereign nation. We must remain a strong beacon of liberty and justice in a world of darkness. We must return to our roots of strong values and morals centered around God's laws. We must not dilute what has taken so long and required so much sacrifice to secure. We must not forget the source of our blessings. We can not be a theocracy for it would risk corruption at the hands of man but we must remain among the people - one by one, together in our homes, our churches, and our communities - a nation of believers in God the Father, the Son, and the Holy Sprit even as we allow all to choose the god they will follow. We must be honest about our past mistakes but we must uplift the overwhelming accomplishments of our ancestors never giving way to the tainted revisions of history our detractors wish us to accept.
 
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