Near Death Experience

[Iconoclast]

Paul was not giving his opinion. He was writing scripture.Those verses you misunderstand were saying he was not repeating something Jesus taught.......He as an inspired Apostle was writing direct and authoritative teaching. TO deny Paul wrote scripture 100% is not a Christian position.

 

[Bro. Curtis]

You're shifting gears Bro. Our topic is Paul. Yes people die once and are judged. Read the judgement scene in Matthew and quake in fear.

So, you do not believe Paul meant what he wrote?

The topic is near death experiences, and I'm not talking to Satan about Paul's writings. Got it ?

 

[Crabtownboy]

The topic is near death experiences, and I'm not talking to Satan about Paul's writings. Got it ?

As usual, you take a wrong position, and then when it is show to you you revert to insults and blowing smoke. Most intellectually dishonest of you ... again.

So, now we know you do not believe Paul really meant what he wrote. Shame on you!

Actually I realize why you do this. You are one of those, and there are many, who are afraid to look honestly at spiritual truth if it now challenges what you believed as a child.

 

[Bro. Curtis]

Not going to be admonished about honesty by you, Mr. White-supremacist-in-the-tea-party. You are the biggest liar on the board.

Not going to discuss the inspiration of Paul's writing in scripture. It is just another one of your lies.

And if the board throws me off for calling you a liar over this issue, then I never belonged here, in the first place.

 

[Crabtownboy]

So when Paul says "I" he really means God. And when Paul says this is from me he lied and really meant this is from God.

Careful Bro. rather dangerous to call Paul a liar.

Like I said, I take Paul at his word. He knew what he was writing and when he says "I" he means I. And when he says God he means God.

Did not realize you were such a liberal when it comes to interpreting the Bible.

I cannot help it that you are too immature and insecure to take the Bible as it says.

 

[quantumfaith]

Not going to be admonished about honesty by you, Mr. White-supremacist-in-the-tea-party. You are the biggest liar on the board.

Not going to discuss the inspiration of Paul's writing in scripture. It is just another one of your lies.

And if the board throws me off for calling you a liar over this issue, then I never belonged here, in the first place.

I understand you disagree with CTB, but where in the world did this come from?

 

[Bro. Curtis]

He knows good and well where it came from. He made the claim, probably a year ago, and has refused to either retract it or back it up. I hold it kind as kind of a reminder of what I am dealing with when I am stupid enough to think he's here for rational discussion.

 

[quantumfaith]

CTB, are you a White Supremist? Nothing wrong with the Tea Party.

 

[Bro. Curtis]

So when Paul says "I" he really means God. And when Paul says this is from me he lied and really meant this is from God.

Careful Bro. rather dangerous to call Paul a liar.

Like I said, I take Paul at his word. He knew what he was writing and when he says "I" he means I. And when he says God he means God.

Did not realize you were such a liberal when it comes to interpreting the Bible.

I cannot help it that you are too immature and insecure to take the Bible as it says.

This is probably the most ridiculous thing I have ever read. Why are you even allowed here ?

 

[Gina B]

There have been in books and movies about people going to heaven and returning to tell about it... What is everyones thoughts on this topic and have you ever know anyone this has happened to?

Myself. It really helped me understand the trinity.

It was so natural that I did not recognize it as a unique experience for quite a long time after, when I was reviewing that day in my mind and it dawned on me to shut up. Because people aren't "supposed" to see and know things that happened when they were knocked out. LOL

I don't really ever go into detail on it, but the main thing is - it happened. And I would be crazy to say I was somehow the only person on earth telling the truth, so there is a lot of reluctance on my part to reject what others say.

I wasn't a believer at the time, and it wasn't some great "now I believe" after. It just, years later, saved me the whole Trinity confusion, to the point where it's hard for me to understand how people don't understand. And I can't really explain it to them, which is very frustrating when someone struggles with the issue because I vividly remember just KNOWING and it just is, and is so natural, but words for that? It's like trying to explain the scent of air to someone. You just know...

 

[Bro. Curtis]

CTB, are you a White Supremist? Nothing wrong with the Tea Party.

If you really want in, yes he made the claim that "EVERYBODY KNEW" there were white supremacists affiliated with the Tea Party, which came as a surprise to me, being an organizer and regular attendee of the first couple of them here in Missoula. Since then I have asked him to retract or back up, his slander, and he has done neither. It is my fault when I engage such a dishonest person and come out looking like a fool.

 

[quantumfaith]

If you really want in, yes he made the claim that "EVERYBODY KNEW" there were white supremacists affiliated with the Tea Party, which came as a surprise to me, being an organizer and regular attendee of the first couple of them here in Missoula. Since then I have asked him to retract or back up, his slander, and he has done neither. It is my fault when I engage such a dishonest person and come out looking like a fool.

Do you think it is not possible for some WS to be found among the Tea Party membership? I could see that as possible, but EVERY party has fringe elements.

 

[Bro. Curtis]

Affiliated would mean working together towards a common goal. No such alliance ever existed, I know this because I actually spent time researching the subject. I'm not going to argue with you over his dishonesty. He's also said I hate the poor and minorities, said I don't care if my wife lives or dies, here he's saying I'm calling God a liar. He's never retracted anything.

Yes, I am a fool to engage such. But I will not be lectured about honesty by him.

 

[righteousdude2]

I guess the only way to prove a near death experience to a skeptic is ....

.... for them to have one, and then have the faithful skeptics completely shut them down and tell them they know not what they saw or speak about!

My dad had such an experience. It dramatically changed him, and coming to Jesus after age 50 is not all that common, especially when you are brought up Christian Science, and believed the way the parents and church taught him.

After surviving his cardiac arrest, one by all accounts would have killed 99 of 100 men. In fact, his survival is recorded in the AMA journals because the City of Hope had never observed someone living through and recovering from that bad an attack!

He read the Billy Graham book [which I gave him after he was moved from ICU to CCU], and whatever it was he viewed in that NDE, changed him for life. As I said, he became a born-again SBC, and worked to convert my mom, and they both were water baptised [I drove all the way from Nebraska, where I lived at the time] to see it with my own eyes.

My dad spent the remainder of his life sharing Jesus, and he was extremely successful at reaching people for Jesus!

That kind of Damascus Road change comes at the expense of a major spiritual event, and I would never tell him he saw nothing, heard nothing or went somewhere in the time he was clinically dead [approximately 12 minutes].

What my distinguished colleagues seem to forget in arguing against near-death experiences, is that we serve a supernatural God. Supernatural means He is more than capable and able to do whatever He desires and wills, in order to demonstrate His presence, love and even conviction!

I do not think God gives a "hoot" when it comes to whether something He is going to do is in order with previously written scripture. After all, He inspired that which is written, and He surely can supersede that with His supernatural powers. I can't explain NDEs, but like a miracle, it is God's hand intervening in a life to have an impact in that live and the life of each person that k the one He touched.

In a way, Jesus did this during His ministry, always going outside the box, and it drove the Jewish leaders crazy. Do any of you truly believe God worries about what we may or may not think when he manifests a supernatural miracle of touch? He was, did and still is ready to do whatever it takes to influence people and groups for His glory and honor! That is what it means to be supernatural. To over ride that which is commonly understood or accepted!

 

[HAMel]

In a way, Jesus did this during His ministry, always going outside the box, and it drove the Jewish leaders crazy. Do any of you truly believe God worries about what we may or may not think when he manifests a supernatural miracle of touch? He was, did and still is ready to do whatever it takes to influence people and groups for His glory and honor! That is what it means to be supernatural. To over ride that which is commonly understood or accepted!

rd2, as my day laid in the ER years ago the Lord spoke to me in a way that many would just scoff at by thinking I was over the deep end. That's fine. I witnessed it. Not interested in trying to explain to others specifically but what I was shown was real and to the point. I'll never forget it. I experienced the super-natural for sure that afternoon.

 

[gb93433]

The best book I have read on the subject was written by a doctor who became a Christian after interviewing people immediately after their experience. He found out that a number had "heaven" and a number had "hell" experiences. The book is "To Hell and Back" by Maurice Rawlings.

 

[HAMel]

gb93433

http://www.divinerevelations.info/documents/rawlings/dr_rawlings_near_death_experiences.htm

 

[Aaron]

I do not think God gives a "hoot" when it comes to whether something He is going to do is in order with previously written scripture.

Herein is the danger. The "experience" becomes the standard of truth, and not revelation. God does give a hoot.

. . . for thou hast magnified thy word above all thy name. Ps 138:2

. . . the scripture cannot be broken; Jn 10:35

. . . We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts: 2Pe 1:19

The thing about truth is that it is immutable. And so, whether it was your intention or not, you just said that the Scripture is not true.

After all, He inspired that which is written, and He surely can supersede that with His supernatural powers.

If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself. 2Ti 2:13

In a way, Jesus did this during His ministry, always going outside the box, and it drove the Jewish leaders crazy.

What Jesus did was perfectly within the box. He fulfilled the Scriptures. He fulfilled the law. He is the Truth.

It was the Jewish leaders who went outside the box. They perverted the law. They transgressed the law, but they rationalized their disobedience as devotion, and their disciples were twice the children of hell for it. Christ shined the light on their hypocrisy, and that is what drove them mad.

Do any of you truly believe God worries about what we may or may not think when he manifests a supernatural miracle of touch? He was, did and still is ready to do whatever it takes to influence people and groups for His glory and honor! That is what it means to be supernatural. To over ride that which is commonly understood or accepted!

Hogwash.

To be supernatural is to be outside nature. To turn water into wine, to walk on water, to give sight to the blind, to raise the dead, to feed a multitude with five loaves and two fish, to rise from the grave.

I don't know a thing about the experience of your father. I'm not judging that. I am judging your rationalization thereof, and it doesn't speak well of the other. Whether God worries what we may or may not think when he manifests a "supernatural miracle of touch" (whatever that means) I don't know. I do know this, He will judge what we think, and His judgment will be according to righteousness.

 

[PreachTony]

She had an operation and was in the recovery room, awake and then slipped away. She said the last thing to go seems to be hearing as she could not speak nor see any longer. She heard a doctor say, "Well, we lost this one."

She suddenly found herself in a beautiful meadow. There was a presence behind her. She said without having to turn around she knew it was Jesus. Ahead a relative who had died some years before was walking across the meadow to meet her.

The presence behind her said, "Do you want to stay or return."

She replied, "Well, Lord, I would like to stay here, but Floyd [her husband] and the children need me."

The next think she knew was pain and waking as doctors worked on her.

She lived many more years and said that after that experience she had absolutely no fear of death.

While I do not discount her experience, I would personally be somewhat troubled by God, in the form of the Son, presenting any man or woman with the choice to leave a heavenly realm (please note the steps I'm taking with the language I'm using) and that person choosing to leave. If you'll grant me a moment's inference, the statement you claim she made, requesting to go back for her husband, implies that there was a level of worry and concern in her, though she was in a 'heavenly' spiritual place. I'm in the camp that believes we'll have no worry, nor pain, nor sorrow, when we get into that place with God.

From my study, I read where Hezekiah was "sick unto death" and he prayed to God for an extension to his life, and God granted the desires of his prayer. Most people hold that up as a great example of God granting our desires, but they conveniently leave out the part where Hezekiah's desire led to quite possibly the most evil king rising to power (Manasseh) which in turn fulfilled the scripture of Josiah rising and restoring a bit of religious purity to the land by eliminating the pagan ritualists and idol worshippers.

I also read Hebrews 9:27, which says "And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment." I would take that to mean that God has already set a bound which we cannot cross. We could probably get into some deeper discussion about it.

 

[righteousdude2]

Hogwash ....

Herein is the danger. The "experience" becomes the standard of truth, and not revelation. God does give a hoot.

. . . for thou hast magnified thy word above all thy name. Ps 138:2

. . . the scripture cannot be broken; Jn 10:35

. . . We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts: 2Pe 1:19u

The thing about truth is that it is immutable. And so, whether it was your intention or not, you just said that the Scripture is not true.




If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself. 2Ti 2:13

What Jesus did was perfectly within the box. He fulfilled the Scriptures. He fulfilled the law. He is the Truth.

It was the Jewish leaders who went outside the box. They perverted the law. They transgressed the law, but they rationalized their disobedience as devotion, and their disciples were twice the children of hell for it. Christ shined the light on their hypocrisy, and that is what drove them mad.

Hogwash.

To be supernatural is to be outside nature. To turn water into wine, to walk on water, to give sight to the blind, to raise the dead, to feed a multitude with five loaves and two fish, to rise from the grave.

I don't know a thing about the experience of your father. I'm not judging that. I am judging your rationalization thereof, and it doesn't speak well of the other. Whether God worries what we may or may not think when he manifests a "supernatural miracle of touch" (whatever that means) I don't know. I do know this, He will judge what we think, and His judgment will be according to righteousness.

I really don't live or die on your opinion. In other words, your attitude doesn't speak well of you either my friend. In short, I don' give a hoot what you think, because you are severely lacking in your understanding of what it means to serve a supernatural God. I presume you do see God as supernatural? If you don't, well how do you explain the unexplainable things that happen in life? When someone is drawn to God through a miracle , that doesn't lessen the salvation of that person, does it?

When it comes to me, and my faith in God, the best thing about this entire relationship with Jesus is that there is nothing He can't do. The miracles Jesus performed were not written in the OT. In fact there were few miracles in the OT, so you opened the door, give me the examples Jesus followed when he healed lepers. When he rose the dead. When he sent healing via proxy of a father. What and where in the scripture is the step by step plan he followed while doing the supernatural acts he did?

Look, you have your views, and I have mine. But it is not Christ like to judge me based on your limited [you limit God per your level of faith, not necessarily my level] view of the supernatural side to God. And if you want to deny that we serve a supernatural God, that is yours to deal with. Where in the word was an example to explain Paul's Damascus Road experience? Where in scripture is a previous example of an angel busting Peter out of jail?

I do not believe that God is limited to what is recorded in the Bible. God has never stopped writing the miraculous side of who he is, and what he can do. Every miracle is something that can only be explained by saying it has no earthly answer. I did not appreciate you trying to limit my faith by your limited views of God. Nod do I appreciate you judging me based on how far you are willing to trust him, or let go and let God when it comes to his supernatural abilities.

I am not basing what I have seen on emotions anymore than you are basing your opinions on your emotional and spiritual paralysis of a supernatural God. We will have to wait and see who is correct. And I will care less which of us wins this one, because I have a condo waiting for me in heaven, per Jesus. And your views of how much I am willing to trust him to stretch human limitations by his supernatural abilities, matter little to me. God bless you too!