Need advice. Got a problem with a Sister in Christ.

[bapmom]

Joe, this is the second time you've seemed to get some affront from me not introducing myself to you before I post.....as I've been on the BB longer then you have perhaps you could introduce yourself to me first? lol
Oh, and I read the OP quite carefully, as well as JDbuck's replies later in the thread, as well as all the other replies.

As I stated your name in my post that's considered enough to assume I'm talking to you. I DID address two different people in my post, and if I feel the need to do so again I will.

But, it was iffy for me to even reply in this thread as I'm not a pastor, so I'd rather not continue here - if you would like to expound on your issues with me feel free to PM me. :godisgood:

 

[Joe]

Huh? what are you doing here.....

I'm sorry - was I supposed to check in with you first for permission to join this discussion?? I'll make sure I do that the next time.

You lost me. Who is righteous and lacking grace?

You are Joe - you're coming across in a very righteous tone toward Buck for not towing the line as far as you were concerned and certainly you've been condescending if the Huh? statement is anything to go by. I appreciate that your concerns are very real, but there are others on the forum who've experienced some similar situations as Buck and so their input might be valuable to him

And to quote you....I'll continue to pray also :saint: No need to reply if you so choose.

"Huh", my three letter word sitting all buy itself isn't saying you can't or shouldn't be in the conversation. It is replying to your "Buck defense" trying to pit me and Buck against one another. Re read it. I didn't know exactly what you meant. You are fairly new here, and Buck and I have a history. I believe what he says, and read his posts VERY thoroughly. I respect Buck very much, and will continue to do so no matter what he chooses.
And it helps to be direct and honest in telling me "I lack grace and are self righteous" Otherwise, I don't understand who you are referring to.

 

[Joe]

Joe, this is the second time you've seemed to get some affront from me not introducing myself to you before I post.....as I've been on the BB longer then you have perhaps you could introduce yourself to me first? lol
Oh, and I read the OP quite carefully, as well as JDbuck's replies later in the thread, as well as all the other replies.

As I stated your name in my post that's considered enough to assume I'm talking to you. I DID address two different people in my post, and if I feel the need to do so again I will.

But, it was iffy for me to even reply in this thread as I'm not a pastor, so I'd rather not continue here - if you would like to expound on your issues with me feel free to PM me. :godisgood:

No, and I don't remember you sorry.
I think you are getting me mixed up with someone else.
And I don't know where you got this "you need to introduce yourself"
We only do that once on the BB, it's when we first join and post in the intro forums.

 

[bapmom]

I get it from the fact that whenever I reply to a thread you're in you ask me who I am and if you know me........to me that is implying that in your opinion I should be offering up more info on myself before I am 'allowed' to address you.

Perhaps its a miscommunication, but I've also seen others wonder at that style.

 

[Joe]

I get it from the fact that whenever I reply to a thread you're in you ask me who I am and if you know me........to me that is implying that in your opinion I should be offering up more info on myself before I am 'allowed' to address you.

Perhaps its a miscommunication, but I've also seen others wonder at that style.

It's a miscommunication, I have never desired anyone to "introduce themselves" to me before posting :laugh:

Maybe you could cut and paste our communications so next time it occurs, show it to me. I didn't know if you mistaked me for someone else since you come in with guns a blazing, telling me what to do. Women order me around and it's fine but I usually know them well. It's kindof shocking from someone you don't know. Post to me more often, or in a calmer tone, then you can order me around when I get used to you.

I didn't know if you mistaked me for some other guy on the Bb. I better get to bed now. Goodnight

 

[Gayla]

JDbuck,
Glad your visit with the husband went well.
If he and his wife have a problem with the Pastor, I certainly hope they'll speak with him directly. Prayers for you and your wife.raying:




Bapmom,
You don't have to be a Pastor to post in this forum.



Joe,
Why did you ask queenbee what she is doing here? (Just wondering, seems like a strong response.)

:wavey: :wavey:

 

[Joe]

Joe,
Why did you ask queenbee what she is doing here? (Just wondering, seems like a strong response.)

What are you doing here, otherwise meant, what are you trying to pull on me, not what are you doing here in a literal sense. She was stating she needed to defend another poster against me in the same sentence. Guess you missed it. In fact, my response was giving her the benefit of the doubt. But she continued on so it was clear she did meant what I thought. Let it go please

We are all here equally, as guests of this message board. That is obvious.
I would ask "why do you care so much" but I would rather this thread get back on track.

 

[rbell]

JKD, Glad this situation got worked out.

Joe, one of many goals we have as Christians is to try and live peacably with all folks, and be unified as Christians.

Trying to get folks arrested and referring to "attempted murder" doesn't exactly accomplish this.

Was this a serious issue? Yes. Could it have gotten even more serious? Yes. However, walking in with guns a-blazing wouldn't solve much of anything.

When the OP gave us an update that things had been worked out in a peaceful way, you seemed disappointed....

Someone was almost killed remember? And your main goal is the church staying together? Why would your results be important?

It isn't about you :BangHead:

Except I am curious....What brother?
The husband (Deacon) who is married to the lady who tried to kill your wife?
What in the world would he have to be angry at you about? He is likely going to be sweet as pie to you. His wife could be prosecuted!

Why would you bring an attempted murderer in front of your church?

I don't know who you gave it to, but it certainly wasn't God.

Don't take credit for not obeying the law at the expense of others.
In fact, I believe it is a crime in itself not to report it.

First of all, you don't know the whole story...of course I would hope there are some ongoing precautions; but it's not like we're privy to the entire conversation...so assuming is dangerous.

Secondly....I would question your approach on so many fronts:

• Do you really think it's a good idea to refer to this woman as an "attempted murderer?"
• You insinuate with your "what brother" comment that he isn't a brother in the Lord. Do you mean that?
• What gives you the right to tell this man that God was not in the peaceful solution---a solution which none of us (outside the OP) know all the details--a solution which all the original parties seem pleased with--a solution that did not cause hatred and division in the body of Christ.

Honestly, I had serious trouble with the entirety of your advice.

 

[Joe]

Joe, one of many goals we have as Christians is to try and live peacably with all folks, and be unified as Christians.Trying to get folks arrested and referring to "attempted murder" doesn't exactly accomplish this.

Trying to get someone arrested for attempted murder? Why are you lying about me? Please use the ignore button

Try reading the posts, no one said anything of the sort. You need an incident report to apply for a restraining order, a recommendation of a Cop from our local Sheriff's Department. ATTEMPTED MURDER IS SERIOUS

Sorry buddy, I follow the law when it comes to someone attempting to murder another person. I follow the law as best I can, and certainly when other's lives are at stake. I call, gain the information from someone I trust at the Sheriff's Dept, and go off of that. They say it NEEDS to be REPORTED, so that is what we do. Simple. Our Lord commands us to follow the law.

To do otherwise, is promoting illegal activity which is forbidden on this message board. THE OP states this act was deliberate in three different ways- there is no getting around it. But it's a message board, so we don't ever know. No problem,life goes on

Feel free to place me on ignore if that is what you really feel. I won't bother to read the rest of your post

 

[rbell]

Trying to get someone arrested for attempted murder? Why are you lying about me?

um...Joe, you referred more than once to the person as one who "tried to kill" the OP's wife. The "attempted murder" reference was yours, not mine.

You used phrases such as:

The husband (Deacon) who is married to the lady who tried to kill your wife?

and

Why would you bring an attempted murderer in front of your church?

So there are no lies here, sorry. The only thing I can see is that maybe you misunderstood my phrase "trying to get someone arrested." I was referring to your advice that he do that...not that you had personally tried to have someone arrested.

Please use the ignore button

Why should I use the ignore button? I disagree with your approach, and am putting down the reasons why....rationally. I see no need to ignore you. I'm having a discussion. I think we both can.

Try reading the posts, no one said anything of the sort. You need an incident report to apply for a restraining order, a recommendation of a Cop from our local Sheriff's Department. ATTEMPTED MURDER IS SERIOUS

Sorry buddy, I follow the law when it comes to someone attempting to murder another person. I follow the law as best I can, and certainly when other's lives are at stake. I call, gain the information from someone I trust at the Sheriff's Dept, and go off of that. They say it NEEDS to be REPORTED, so that is what we do. Simple. Our Lord commands us to follow the law.

The woman that pulled this stunt did something stupid. I don't think anyone would disagree with that. I just think it's a jump to move the motive from "stupid" to "murder." Fine if you disagree with me...but there's no need for hostility in the process.

To do otherwise, is promoting illegal activity which is forbidden on this message board. THE OP states this act was deliberate in three different ways- there is no getting around it. But it's a message board, so we don't ever know. No problem,life goes on

We disagree on the first sentence...I think ignoring it completely would be unethical; however, that was not my proposal. I just didn't think we should automatically assume "attempted murder." As to your last sentence--that is my point: we don't know the whole story here.

Feel free to place me on ignore if that is what you really feel. I won't bother to read the rest of your post

I don't place someone on ignore because I disagree with them. And I'm sorry that you aren't willing to engage me on some specific points I would like clarification on:

• You have made your point clear on the "attempted murder" thing. Fine...I'll move on to the next item:
• You asked the question, "What brother?" when the OP mentioned talking with the lady's husband. He seemed happy that they had reached a peaceful solution, which seemed to bother you. He mentioned the fellow as "a brother in the Lord," and you responded, "What brother?" Is it your assertion that the fellow isn't saved? Do you question his salvation based on his wife's action? I'm asking, because that's what you seemed to say in your post...I'm trying to get it right. Is that what you meant to say/mean?
• The OP told of the situation's resolution, and indicated that he felt it was an answer to prayer, because he had "given things over to God;" to which you responded:

  • I don't know who you gave it to, but it certainly wasn't God.

I just thought that was presumptuous, IMO, to tell someone that the solution--peaceful and acceptable to both parties--was "not of God." Sorry if you disagree.

Feel free to place me on ignore if that is what you really feel. I won't bother to read the rest of your post

So Joe....no, I will not be putting you on ignore, because I think we can talk about stuff maturely and learn from each other. Sure, we'll disagree...but we can be mature in the process.

 

[tinytim]

Someone was almost killed remember? And your main goal is the church staying together? Why would your results be important?

It isn't about you :BangHead:

Except I am curious....What brother?
The husband (Deacon) who is married to the lady who tried to kill your wife?
What in the world would he have to be angry at you about? He is likely going to be sweet as pie to you. His wife could be prosecuted!

Why would you bring an attempted murderer in front of your church?

I don't know who you gave it to, but it certainly wasn't God.

Don't take credit for not obeying the law at the expense of others.
In fact, I believe it is a crime in itself not to report it.



God help you if this happens again and someone is seriously injured or killed.

Joe, I am worried about you, it seems like you might blow a gasket here.

We are to be peacemakers.. not keep up conflict.

Every conflict is an opportunity to glorify God...

This is exactly what happened. When Christians handle conflicts the way the Bible instructs instead of the way the legal system instructs God gets the glory.

Our church had a peacemakers conference a few week ago, and I would recommend you attend one.. .it is the best thing a church can do.

There are 4 main things that need to happen when conflict arises....

1) Glorify God Immediatly ask how God can get the glory from this conflict.
Think of a way you can serve the other individual in a way they have never been served before... and at the same time serve God in a way that you have never served him.... God has a lesson for you....

2) Get the log out of your own eye... that way you can see clearly

3) Gently restore... following Matthew 18... and if all else fails treat them as a lost person... according to Matthew 18...
Now how should we treat the lost... the same way Christ did...
NO where does Matthew 18 give you permission to shun people

4)Go and be reconciled... work it out, and leave it behind...

This is why I gave my advice earlier that Buck seemed to take.
Joe, (and everyone else) go here and look around...

http://www.peacemaker.net/site/c.aqKFLTOBIpH/b.958123/

If you are having trouble, conflict in church, this group of Godly people will help...
Our church is signing up to be a peacemaking church.
We will have mediators trained to help when the need arises...

Everyone needs peace, and I am convinced this is one way we can evangelize the world... introduce them to the prince of peace... Not the sheriff.

 

[Joe]

um...Joe, you referred more than once to the person as one who "tried to kill" the OP's wife. The "attempted murder" reference was yours, not mine.

So there are no lies here, sorry. We need to get off talking about me- Or lying about my personal feelings which I have not stated. "Why Bother" is what it should have read, not "Why Brother?" You are fixating on a typo about my feelings of someone's salvation. My feelings don't matter- only the Lord knows who is saved.

The only thing I can see is that maybe you misunderstood my phrase "trying to get someone arrested."

You stated I was trying to get her arrested for attempted murder. That is a LIE. That is not a motive of mine. IMO, nothing would happen to her but it would be on record in case she is dangerous and it would allow her to have it on record so she can attempt to obtain a restraining order, a recommendation by a Cop acquaintance of mine. She needs to take this seriously.

1.The flower lady went against the established practice of KNOWING the flowers were disallowed in church because they were fatal to another member

2. Even EXPECTING the Pastor to remove these flowers for that very reason- To cause an "incident" the OP states.

3.The lady admitted this HERSELF to the Pastor AND her victim -READ THE OP. READ THE OP

4. SHE ALSO admitted to knowing the Pastor may remove these "fatal" flowers for that very reason, because it could kill another church member

Just the slight smell of flowers trapped in the air conditioning duct could kill her. YET THIS lady bought flowers in, full well knowing what she was doing very well would result in this ladies airway closing up-DEATH.

This makes it NOT ONLY ATTEMPTED MURDER, BUT PREMEDITATED


The only way to think differently is to change the facts in the OP. I don't have all day for you to make up every "scinereo" make up stories about my motives. If you are not going to debate, then why bother?


Buck can call his local department with his hypothetical situation, and go from there. Or he may not


I think I said "Why bother?" not "Why brother" though most people are not saved, even in church imo. I don't care about that, have many unbelieving friends. I don't recall that ever coming to mind, so you are fixating on a typo. A strawman.

Now let's let it rest, this arguing is only derailing the thread and not edifying to anyone.

 

[Joe]

Joe, I am worried about you, it seems like you might blow a gasket here
We are to be peacemakers.. not keep up conflict.

Every conflict is an opportunity to glorify God...

This is exactly what happened. When Christians handle conflicts the way the Bible instructs instead of the way the legal system instructs God gets the glory.

Our church had a peacemakers conference a few week ago, and I would recommend you attend one.. .it is the best thing a church can do.

There are 4 main things that need to happen when conflict arises....

1) Glorify God Immediatly ask how God can get the glory from this conflict.
Think of a way you can serve the other individual in a way they have never been served before... and at the same time serve God in a way that you have never served him.... God has a lesson for you....

2) Get the log out of your own eye... that way you can see clearly

3) Gently restore... following Matthew 18... and if all else fails treat them as a lost person... according to Matthew 18...
Now how should we treat the lost... the same way Christ did...
NO where does Matthew 18 give you permission to shun people

4)Go and be reconciled... work it out, and leave it behind...

This is why I gave my advice earlier that Buck seemed to take.
Joe, (and everyone else) go here and look around...

http://www.peacemaker.net/site/c.aqKFLTOBIpH/b.958123/

If you are having trouble, conflict in church, this group of Godly people will help...
Our church is signing up to be a peacemaking church.
We will have mediators trained to help when the need arises...

Everyone needs peace, and I am convinced this is one way we can evangelize the world... introduce them to the prince of peace... Not the sheriff.

Following the law is not blowing a gasket
Following the word of God is not blowing a gasket
We are to do both
As Christians, especially in life or death situations, this is called for EVEN more.
Btw,I have no doubt my Elders and Church would handle this situation similarly.
It would be reported to the proper authorities.
And our church would remain in peace imo, as it always has, even when tough issues arise.
I am sorry you feel that way, but let's agree to disagree and let this thread continue on.

 

[rbell]

You stated I was trying to get her arrested for attempted murder. That is a LIE. That is not a motive of mine. IMO, nothing would happen to her but it would be on record in case she is dangerous and it would allow her to have it on record so she can obtain an incident report. She needs to take this seriously.

Joe, you have accused me of lying. I showed you your quotes and told you how I came to the conclusion I did. We may have misunderstood each other, but that is not lying. I do not appreciate the accusation, and my responses, I believe, are quite clear...I have not deliberately and intentionally misstated the truth (definition of a lie). Your accusation will not hold water, when I have shown your words indicating a position you held. Now...if I misunderstood your position, then fne. But the accusation of lying is over the top, and not appreciated.

I think I said "Why bother?" not "Why brother" though most people are not saved, even in church imo. I don't care about that, have many unbelieving friends. I don't recall that ever coming to mind, so you are fixating on a typo. A strawman

.

Ummm....if it's a typo, then fine. I'm not fixating on anything. Here was the original context, and your words:

Hey folks... I took some good advice. I invited her husband out for lunch and we discussed it and some other concerns in the church. He said his wife was really sorry (said she was "sick over it") and that it would never happen again.

I think its ok. Couldn't have asked for a better result. The church didn't split. I won my brother. Didn't have to take witnesses or even bring it up to the church. When you give things over to God, He'll take care of them.

You responded with:

Except I am curious....What brother?
The husband (Deacon) who is married to the lady who tried to kill your wife? What in the world would he have to be angry at you about? He is likely going to be sweet as pie to you. His wife could be prosecuted!

Joe, if you meant, "why bother?" then OK, I take your word for it....but the context, and your own words, didn't originally lead me that way.

My asking a legitimate question based on this exchange is not "fixating" on a "straw man."

Now let's let it rest, this arguing is only derailing the thread and not edifying to anyone.

Joe, I never was arguing. I'm not upset. I'm trying to get clarification on what you said....I'm not really sure why any of this is a problem. Most of the harshest statements on this thread have come from you, not others.

 

[Joe]

"Except I am curious....What brother? "
This was my one sentence you assumed I questioned someone's salvation over? far reaching...

It meant the opposite.
Otherwise.. What brother in the church was he speaking of.
But yes, the post could have been worded better. I wanted him to realize the seriousness of it.
Even poor Bucks wife, the victim, got accused of similar in the beginning of this thread.
One or more posters said she was "yelling" at the flower lady when she called her on the phone. I pointed out the post never indicated such.
Now, can we please stop this arguing. let it rest. Thanks