Need alittle Help Here

[steaver]

This is a mystery, as the bible does not directly address issue, so based upon nature of God and the provisions of the Cross..

Those whom God lnows shall fall into that category have their sins atoned for in Cross...

I don't really want to get sidetracked here from my thus far unanswered question, but according to the doctrines of TULIP, all babies/young children cannot be declared saved until any make believe age of accountability. If you hold to TULIP then some babies are elect and some are not, for if they be elect before the foundation of the world, and as a baby, they will Persevere according to TULIP. Obviously not all are elect, thus not all babies can be automatically saved until further notice. In the TULIP model that is.

 

[Winman]

I don't really want to get sidetracked here from my thus far unanswered question, but according to the doctrines of TULIP, all babies/young children cannot be declared saved until any make believe age of accountability. If you hold to TULIP then some babies are elect and some are not, for if they be elect before the foundation of the world, and as a baby, they will Persevere according to TULIP. Obviously not all are elect, thus not all babies can be automatically saved until further notice. In the TULIP model that is.

If you believe babies are born dead in sin, then you must believe that all babies who die go to hell. The only alternative is to teach that a person can be saved by other means than faith in Jesus Christ. A stillborn baby cannot possibly believe on Jesus, and neither can a newborn.

One error leads to another, when you teach all men are born in sin, then you must teach that babies who die are saved without faith in Jesus.

The real truth is that babies are not sinners, Paul said that Esau and Jacob had done no evil in their mother's womb.

Rom 9:11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth; )

If Jacob and Esau had died in their mother's womb (as millions of babies have died in their mother's womb), they would have been no sinners. This explains the 99 just persons who needed no repentance Jesus spoke of.

Mat 18:12 How think ye? if a man have an hundred sheep, and one of them be gone astray, doth he not leave the ninety and nine, and goeth into the mountains, and seeketh that which is gone astray?
13 And if so be that he find it, verily I say unto you, he rejoiceth more of that sheep, than of the ninety and nine which went not astray.
14 Even so it is not the will of your Father which is in heaven, that one of these little ones should perish.

Jesus had just told his disciples they must be converted and become as little children to enter the kingdom of heaven. We know that no unclean thing enters heaven, so obviously little children are not sinners.

Jesus repeated this in Luke 15;

Luk 15:7 I say unto you, that likewise joy shall be in heaven over one sinner that repenteth, more than over ninety and nine just persons, which need no repentance.

Here Jesus spoke of 99 just persons who need no repentance. If a baby dies, they are without sin and need no repentance.

The only other option is to believe Jesus was speaking of IMAGINARY persons which could not possibly exist. I refuse to believe this, Jesus DID NOT SPEAK NONSENSE!!

 

[The Biblicist]

If you believe babies are born dead in sin, then you must believe that all babies who die go to hell. The only alternative is to teach that a person can be saved by other means than faith in Jesus Christ.

Are you privy to what goes on in the womb between the baby and God? Are you privy to what goes not between John the Baptist in his mother's womb and God BEFORE he leaped for joy? If God can preach the gospel to Abraham, and if angels can preach the gospel then who are you to say it cannot be done in the womb to all dying infants?

 

[annsni]

I don't really want to get sidetracked here from my thus far unanswered question, but according to the doctrines of TULIP, all babies/young children cannot be declared saved until any make believe age of accountability. If you hold to TULIP then some babies are elect and some are not, for if they be elect before the foundation of the world, and as a baby, they will Persevere according to TULIP. Obviously not all are elect, thus not all babies can be automatically saved until further notice. In the TULIP model that is.

This is kind of the conclusion I've come to but bottom line, God is good, God is just and God is right. Whatever happens to infants/babies/children/mentally handicapped, is right.

 

[annsni]

Are you privy to what goes on in the womb between the baby and God? Are you privy to what goes not between John the Baptist in his mother's womb and God BEFORE he leaped for joy? If God can preach the gospel to Abraham, and if angels can preach the gospel then who are you to say it cannot be done in the womb to all dying infants?

Exactly. What about people who are completely mentally handicapped? Will they ever raise a hand, walk an aisle or pray a prayer? Can they? I leave them in God's hands and know that God can communicate effectively to whoever He wills.

 

[steaver]

Exactly. What about people who are completely mentally handicapped? Will they ever raise a hand, walk an aisle or pray a prayer? Can they? I leave them in God's hands and know that God can communicate effectively to whoever He wills.

Amen!

There are two options;

1) Armenian POV; God is just and somehow, someway, all will hear the gospel of Jesus Christ and make their choice.

2) TULIP POV; God will save some no matter what age or state of mind and God will not save some no matter what age or state of mind. And there will be no free-will choice in the matter.

 

[steaver]

If you believe babies are born dead in sin, then you must believe that all babies who die go to hell. The only alternative is to teach that a person can be saved by other means than faith in Jesus Christ. A stillborn baby cannot possibly believe on Jesus, and neither can a newborn.

One error leads to another, when you teach all men are born in sin, then you must teach that babies who die are saved without faith in Jesus.

The real truth is that babies are not sinners, Paul said that Esau and Jacob had done no evil in their mother's womb.

Rom 9:11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth; )

If Jacob and Esau had died in their mother's womb (as millions of babies have died in their mother's womb), they would have been no sinners. This explains the 99 just persons who needed no repentance Jesus spoke of.

Mat 18:12 How think ye? if a man have an hundred sheep, and one of them be gone astray, doth he not leave the ninety and nine, and goeth into the mountains, and seeketh that which is gone astray?
13 And if so be that he find it, verily I say unto you, he rejoiceth more of that sheep, than of the ninety and nine which went not astray.
14 Even so it is not the will of your Father which is in heaven, that one of these little ones should perish.

Jesus had just told his disciples they must be converted and become as little children to enter the kingdom of heaven. We know that no unclean thing enters heaven, so obviously little children are not sinners.

Jesus repeated this in Luke 15;

Luk 15:7 I say unto you, that likewise joy shall be in heaven over one sinner that repenteth, more than over ninety and nine just persons, which need no repentance.

Here Jesus spoke of 99 just persons who need no repentance. If a baby dies, they are without sin and need no repentance.

The only other option is to believe Jesus was speaking of IMAGINARY persons which could not possibly exist. I refuse to believe this, Jesus DID NOT SPEAK NONSENSE!!

Winman, we are commanded to go and preach the gospel to all creation, those who believe and are baptized shall be saved. However, let's not put the Almighty God in a box that He did not create. God is not bound by our actions or lack thereof.

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

Sorry, but I believe what God expects of me is just, and is nothing but nothing conditional but all, of grace. THAT is TULIP. TULIP for no moment is answered or explained with speculation--whether speculation of physically or mentally handicapped, whether handicapped before birth or after birth. It not only is silly to speculate about such things; it is the fruit of unbelief--of only unbelief in every heart that ever beat in any man elect or damned. Faith never contemplates divine impossibilities; only the human impossibility that anyone at all could be saved from perdition.