New Birth before and Unto Faith !

[savedbymercy]

Jn 11:26

And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?

Now notice here that life precedes activity, in that living goes before believing. Now ask yourself, what kind of living does Jesus mean here as it precedes believing ? It is spiritual life which precedes believing, being born of God. We know this is true because hearing also precedes believing, and life must precede hearing, for Jesus says Himself this Jn 8:47

He that is of God[Born of God] heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.

And He tells some in the same vein "ye therefore hear[Spiritually of course] them not, because ye are not of God." or Born of God ! So Jesus must be consistent with Himself, so Living must be spiritual living as in being born of God or born of the Spirit Jn 3:6

That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

Spirit hears spiritual things which the Gospel is. Paul calls the Gospel, those Spiritual Things 1 Cor 9:11

If we have sown unto you spiritual things, is it a great thing if we shall reap your carnal things?

Spiritual things here Paul means the Gospel, the ministration of the Spirit 2 Cor 3:6-8

Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.

7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:

8 How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?

 

[savedbymercy]

New Birth is a Promise of the New Covenant !



What many in organized religion do not understand is that New Birth is a promise New Covenant Blessing. Here it is stated Jer 31:33

33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

Yes, the promise is here clearly stated, that God will given New Birth to all for whom Christ died for, because He satisfied by His Blood all the conditions of the New Covenant that procured for them a New Life dedicated to God ! Matt 26:28

28 For this is my blood of the new testament or covenant, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

When God says " I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts, He is speaking of the components of New Birth !

This is why all for whom Christ died, by His Resurrection they shall be begotten again ! 1 Pet 1:3

3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

The word begotten again means:

to produce again, be born again, born anew

2) metaph. to have one's mind changed so that he lives a new life and one conformed to the will of God

New Birth must be effected by the Blood of the Covenant for the many it was shed for Matt 26:28

 

[savedbymercy]

Faith when connected to Salvation and Conversion is that spiritual grace given to all for whom Christ died and redeemed by His Blood, it is given as a means to which the redeemed one comes to know of their personal interest in Christ's redeeming or saving death; hence all who have hijacked faith from its Holy Purpose, and have made it a condition to perform to get saved, shall not be innocent in the day of Judgment !

Also:




That Faith or Belief is the fruit of God's enablement is seen here if we understand Paul aright in his writing on how God deals with ethnic Israel and that nation being set aside, Paul says it was because of or due to their unbelief Rom 11:20

20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:

Notice Paul said that you [gentile believers] standest by Faith !

Now how does one stand by Faith ? Rom 14:4

4 Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.

That word make stand is the greek word histēmi:


to cause or make to stand, to place, put, set

to make firm, fix establish

1) to cause a person or a thing to keep his or its place

2) to stand, be kept intact (of family, a kingdom), to escape in safety

3) to establish a thing, cause it to stand

to be of a steadfast mind

3) of quality, one who does not hesitate, does not waiver

One's standing by Faith Paul tells the gentiles is God's doing,m so you have no reason to boast or to be highminded you gentile believers, and its true to jewish believers also, their faith in God and Christ was not by their freewill ability.

So the natural jews were broken off because of unbelief, broken off of the Covenant Standing in Covenant Israel, Pictured as the Olive Tree Rom 11:17

17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert grafted in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;

Now notice what Paul says in vs 23 to let us know where Faith or belief comes from Rom 11:23

23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be grafted in: for God is able to graft them in again.

Even some of the natural branches, ethnic jews can be grafted[an operation of God], if they abide not in unbelief, which God is able or has the power to graft them in again, that is, if God so enables them, they shall be delivered from their state of unbelief, by which Paul spoke by experience, for he himself once did abide in jewish pride and unbelief as Per 1 Tim 1:16

13 Who was before a blasphemer, and a persecutor, and injurious: but I obtained mercy, because I did it ignorantly in unbelief.

So He Praises God for His Grace 1 Tim 1:14

14 And the grace of our Lord was exceeding abundant with faith and love which is in Christ Jesus.

So God by His abundant operation of Grace grafted Paul into the believing Olive Tree Israel, and so it is with all natural jews and gentiles which are of the Election of Grace, they have hope of being grafted in the same way, by the Grace and Power of God, by the Holy Spirit ! BTW this is how all Israel shall be Saved, by the grafting in of the gentile branches of the wild olive tree, and the grafting in of the natural branches that were broken off the good Olive Tree !

For thou standest by Faith, which is by the Power and Operation of God, and by your freewill !

 

[savedbymercy]

The Faith of Jesus Christ !



Rom 3:22

Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:

Gal 2:16

Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

The Faith of Jesus Christ, meaning Faith from Jesus Christ, as in how the Spirit gives Faith to the His Body the Church.

The word Faith is in the genitive case in both of the above scriptures, which describes the kind of Faith it is or the class of the Faith. Its used to denote possession. This simply means that is not of ourselves but is from or out of Jesus Christ, for He is both the Author of it and the finisher of it through His Spirit.

Its given to each member of His Body to profit 1 Cor 12:4-9

4 Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit.

5 And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord.

6 And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all.

7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal.

8 For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit;

9 To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit;

Each Member of Christ's Mystical Body, the Church that He gave Himself for Eph 5:25 are given by the Spirit a measure of Faith Rom 12:3

For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.

The Triune God has dealt to every man of the Body of Christ a measure of faith. The word dealt is the greek word merizō and means:


to divide

a) to separate into parts, cut into pieces

1) to divide into parties, i.e. be split into factions

b) to distribute

1) a thing among people

2) bestow, impart

And the word measure means the determined extent !

This wording is very similar to Peters writings as to where Faith is from and how it is received 2 Pet 1:1

Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ:

The word obtained is the greek word lagchanō and means:


to obtain by lot

a) to receive by divine allotment, obtain

2) to cast lots, determine by lot

Allotment means to portion something, just as in Rom 12:3 to measure or to deal out !

Precious Faith is dealt out measure out to each member of the Body of Christ, those He died for. So its called many times in scripture, the Faith of Jesus Christ !

False Teachers have corrupted Faith and teach that its a product of the flesh and something man conjures up out of the flesh and by doing so, God rewards them with Salvation, folks that is Antichrist teaching at its best !

 

[savedbymercy]

In the Regeneration !



The New Birth and Regeneration are distinct, but yet they go hand in hand and cannot be really divided. One is a Noun in scripture, a Place in Christ, that is Regeneration, and the other is the Effect of being in that Place, New Birth !

The fact is this, everyone Christ died for, His Body the Church Eph 5:23-25

23 For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the Saviour of the body.

24 Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing.

25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;

Has been or are Regenerated, or in the Regeneration ! Its a Place ! Matt 19:28

28 And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

 

[savedbymercy]

The Faith of Jesus Christ !



Rom 3:22

Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:

Gal 2:16

Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

The Faith of Jesus Christ, meaning Faith from Jesus Christ, as in how the Spirit gives Faith to the His Body the Church.

The word Faith is in the genitive case in both of the above scriptures, which describes the kind of Faith it is or the class of the Faith. Its used to denote possession. This simply means that is not of ourselves but is from or out of Jesus Christ, for He is both the Author of it and the finisher of it through His Spirit.

Its given to each member of His Body to profit 1 Cor 12:4-9

4 Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit.

5 And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord.

6 And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all.

7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal.

8 For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit;

9 To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit;

Each Member of Christ's Mystical Body, the Church that He gave Himself for Eph 5:25 are given by the Spirit a measure of Faith Rom 12:3

For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.

The Triune God has dealt to every man of the Body of Christ a measure of faith. The word dealt is the greek word merizō and means:


to divide

a) to separate into parts, cut into pieces

1) to divide into parties, i.e. be split into factions

b) to distribute

1) a thing among people

2) bestow, impart

And the word measure means the determined extent !

This wording is very similar to Peters writings as to where Faith is from and how it is received 2 Pet 1:1

Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ:

The word obtained is the greek word lagchanō and means:


to obtain by lot

a) to receive by divine allotment, obtain

2) to cast lots, determine by lot

Allotment means to portion something, just as in Rom 12:3 to measure or to deal out !

Precious Faith is dealt out measure out to each member of the Body of Christ, those He died for. So its called many times in scripture, the Faith of Jesus Christ !

False Teachers have corrupted Faith and teach that its a product of the flesh and something man conjures up out of the flesh and by doing so, God rewards them with Salvation, folks that is Antichrist teaching at its best !

Shall live by Me




Jn 6:57

As the living Father hath sent me, and I live by the Father: so he that eateth me, even he shall live by me.

All for whom Christ died shall live by or because of him, for as it is written, the Just [ made so by Christ's obedience unto death Rom 5:19] shall live by Faith Rom 1:17

17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith. Or Shall live by me.

Faith here in Rom 1:17 can very well be Christ, who is called Faith else where Gal 3:23, So the Righteousness of God is Revealed from Christ[Faith] to God given Faith of the born again one ! And so because of Christ, His Finished work, they shall by Him Live by Faith !

 

[Yeshua1]

Shall live by Me




Jn 6:57

As the living Father hath sent me, and I live by the Father: so he that eateth me, even he shall live by me.

All for whom Christ died shall live by or because of him, for as it is written, the Just [ made so by Christ's obedience unto death Rom 5:19] shall live by Faith Rom 1:17

17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith. Or Shall live by me.

Faith here in Rom 1:17 can very well be Christ, who is called Faith else where Gal 3:23, So the Righteousness of God is Revealed from Christ[Faith] to God given Faith of the born again one ! And so because of Christ, His Finished work, they shall by Him Live by Faith !

yes, as its faith to faith, as faith in jesus gets ones saved to strat, and we need to keep walking in it unto the finish....

 

[savedbymercy]

yes, as its faith to faith, as faith in jesus gets ones saved to strat, and we need to keep walking in it unto the finish....

Works Salvation !

 

[DHK]

Works Salvation !

Faith is not, never was, a work.

Salvation is by faith alone, in Christ alone, by grace alone.

No other salvation can save.

 

[savedbymercy]

Faith is not, never was, a work.

Salvation is by faith alone, in Christ alone, by grace alone.

No other salvation can save.

Did you not say a while back that Christ's Death in and of itself saved no one ?

 

[DHK]

Did you not say a while back that Christ's Death in and of itself saved no one ?

Perhaps. Its a long thread. I'd have to review it.
But this I know, Faith in the death of Christ, and his atoning works, is what saves--faith and faith alone; not simply the dean in and of itself. The Muslims know about his death, but they are not saved.

 

[savedbymercy]

dhk

But this I know, Faith in the death of Christ, and his atoning works, is what saves

Thats works , salvation by what man does. Faith is an act of obedience by man, which is also to believe, so , yes you do teach that Christ's death in and of itself does not save, but only after man does something.

My position is that Faith in Christ is the fruit of Christ saving one, that is we believe in Him because He saved us from our unbelief by His Death.

You teach that faith or belief in Christ is a condition to get saved that man performs, that is salvation by works all day and everyday !

 

[Yeshua1]

dhk



Thats works , salvation by what man does. Faith is an act of obedience by man, which is also to believe, so , yes you do teach that Christ's death in and of itself does not save, but only after man does something.

My position is that Faith in Christ is the fruit of Christ saving one, that is we believe in Him because He saved us from our unbelief by His Death.

You teach that faith or belief in Christ is a condition to get saved that man performs, that is salvation by works all day and everyday !

jesus death upon the cross was a propiation powerful enough, complete in itself to save ALL persons, but ONLY those who place faith in him and that act SHALL be reconciled and saved by God!

 

[DHK]

dhk



Thats works , salvation by what man does. Faith is an act of obedience by man, which is also to believe, so , yes you do teach that Christ's death in and of itself does not save, but only after man does something.

My position is that Faith in Christ is the fruit of Christ saving one, that is we believe in Him because He saved us from our unbelief by His Death.

You teach that faith or belief in Christ is a condition to get saved that man performs, that is salvation by works all day and everyday !

John wrote his entire gospel centered around "believing" or "faith (see John 3:16,18,36; 5:24, etc.). And then he concluded his book with this concluding verse and theme of the entire gospel:

John 20:31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

In order to have eternal life you must believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God.

I don't have it backwards; you do, and in so doing you are denying the Word of God. Belief in Jesus Christ, and who he is and what he has done comes first. Faith is confidence. I must be confident of whom I am believing and what he has done.

Yes, that is the proper order. If I am not confident that what I am believing is the true and accurate message then my faith is in vain. The word of God defines faith most accurately in Romans 4, giving the example of Abraham:

Romans 4:20 He staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God;
21 And being fully persuaded that, what he had promised, he was able also to perform.

There is faith: "being fully persuaded that what God had promised he was able to do." Abraham was strong in faith and fully convinced that God was going to keep his promise to him. His faith was before the promise came true.

Our faith is before the promise. We must have faith in what God says is true. The action is completed, but is what he says (forgiveness of sins, and the granting of eternal life based on the gospel, true?). In order to be saved I must be convinced (have faith) that that message is true, otherwise I will not believe it.
However faith is not a work. You may say it is a condition of salvation if you so desire, but faith is not a work (Romans. 4:1-5).

 

[savedbymercy]

dhk

However faith is not a work.

Yes it is, Believing is something man does, its an act of the mind or heart ! Its a doing well. James wrote in James 2:19

19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.

You claim salvation by your doing well, that is salvation by works !

 

[savedbymercy]

dhk

His faith was before the promise came true.

Yes, but the Promise being fulfilled was not conditioned on his faith or believing it !

 

[DHK]

dhk

Yes, but the Promise being fulfilled was not conditioned on his faith or believing it !

Of course not. Neither was the cross. God in his grace has provided both. He provided the work on the cross, that we, believing in that work, might have eternal life. That is the only way salvation can be obtained. Romans 4:1-5 is very clear. Faith is not a work.

Romans 4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

"works not but believes," faith is not a work.

 

[savedbymercy]

dhk

Of course not.

So that overthrows your argument, why bring that point up ? None of God's promises about salvation are conditioned on whether one believes them.

Believing is a work, a doing well or well doing, you base your salvation on your well doing, which is works !

 

[DHK]

dhk



So that overthrows your argument, why bring that point up ? None of God's promises about salvation are conditioned on whether one believes them.

Believing is a work, a doing well or well doing, you base your salvation on your well doing, which is works !

That is where you err. ALL of God's promises are conditioned on whether or not one believes. If not then God has created a group of automatons that are programmed to do his will, and have no will in and of themselves. They may of well have no mind, soul, spirit, etc. They just function purely in a mechanical way to praise God. Man can make a robot to do the same thing to praise himself. But God did much better than that. He created man in his own image--with responsibility, a mind, the ability to choose between good and evil. You can deny that if you want, but it still remains the truth.

 

[savedbymercy]

dhk

That is where you err. ALL of God's promises are conditioned on whether or not one believes.

Maybe your god, but not the One I serve, if we believe not, He abideth faithful 2 Tim 2:13

If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful[To His Own Promises]: he cannot deny himself.