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New Birth before and Unto Faith !

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DHK

<b>Moderator</b>
savedbymercy said:
dhk



Maybe your god, but not the One I serve, if we believe not, He abideth faithful 2 Tim 2:13

If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful[To His Own Promises]: he cannot deny himself.
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That is a promise to Timothy, one of the faithful.
Timothy had already believed in Christ, by faith.
He grew up in the faith.
If there were times in his life when he got discouraged as a believer sometimes does, and his faith faltered God would still remain faithful, as God did with Peter, when Peter denied him. That is a promise to believers.

That is not a promise to unbelievers; to those who have never believed.

If you have never put your faith in Christ you are not saved, and Christ has no obligation to be faithful to you. You are under his wrath and condemnation, and even now the wrath of God remains upon you.
 
The Biblicist

The Biblicist

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DHK said:
Quote:
Originally Posted by savedbymercy
Did you not say a while back that Christ's Death in and of itself saved no one ? - SBM


Perhaps. Its a long thread. I'd have to review it.
But this I know, Faith in the death of Christ, and his atoning works, is what saves--faith and faith alone; not simply the dean in and of itself. The Muslims know about his death, but they are not saved.
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I am the one who said that. SBM's doctrine of justification is due to his confusion of several Bibical doctrines and confusion of the individual covenant works of the Godhead with each other.

1. He does not distinguish between what God purposed versus the implentation of that purpose - Isa. 46:11 - "What I have purposed, I will do it." - Hence, he comes up with the doctrine of eternal justification, eternal new birth, eternal glorification, and thus the actual eternal existence of the elect in spiritual union with the Son even before they are created in time and space.

2. He does not distinguish between the LEGAL BASIS of redemption by the Son versus the APPLICATION of redemption by the Spirit. Thus he comes up with the belief that the elect were never subject to wrath at any time either in eternity past or in time prior or after new birth. Here is where his doctrine of faith as works and faith being merely the realization that they are already justified. Thus he denies justification by faith in Christ in time and space.

3. He does not realize or recognize that each Person of the Godhead has a covenant work of redemption and that they are inseparably interdepdent upon each other's work to accomplish full redemption. Here is where I made the statement that the Son's work in and of itself accomplishes nothing apart from interpedence upon the works of both the Father and the Spirit.

He cannot respond intelligently to these objections and so he simply ignores them and repeats his mantra as though the objections never existed.
 
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savedbymercy

New Member
dhk

That is a promise to Timothy, one of the faithful.
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It does not matter who was being spoken to, its God's Character, He will not deny Himself, He is Faithful to His Promises, He swares by no greater than Himself.

Heb 6:13-14

13 For when God made promise to Abraham, because he could swear by no greater, he sware by himself,

14 Saying, Surely blessing I will bless thee, and multiplying I will multiply thee.

This is the God I serve and Worship !
 
D

DHK

<b>Moderator</b>
savedbymercy said:
dhk
It does not matter who was being spoken to,
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Yes it does. You used a verse written by Paul directed to Timothy to try to prove a truth that doesn't exist. You twisted the Scriptures saying that God will remain faithful to you, which is not necessarily the case. I have no evidence that says God will remain faithful to you, and don't see any promise in the Bible that says God will remain faithful to you.

Here is what Paul wrote in context, the verse you quoted:

2 Timothy 2:12 If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:
13 If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself.
14 Of these things put them in remembrance, charging them before the Lord that they strive not about words to no profit, but to the subverting of the hearers.

Notice the number of first person plural pronouns used here "we." Paul is writing to Timothy, the pastor of the church at Ephesus, someone he knows he is a believer.

The believer suffers, but we will also reign.
If the believer may lapse if faith God will remain faithful to the believer.
Therefore Timothy, put these things in remembrance.

This is not written to you. Why?
Because, unlike Timothy, you have not put your faith and trust in Christ.
Salvation is by faith alone in Christ alone through grace alone.
 
D

DHK

<b>Moderator</b>
savedbymercy said:
dhk



No it does not. God is Faithful regardless , at least the One I serve !
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No, you simply can't repeat over and over again a statement without Scriptural evidence.

God promises faithfulness to those who have put their faith in him.
 
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savedbymercy

New Member
DHK said:
No, you simply can't repeat over and over again a statement without Scriptural evidence.

God promises faithfulness to those who have put their faith in him.
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No it does not. God is Faithful regardless , at least the One I serve !

2 Tim 2:13

If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful[To His Own Promises]: he cannot deny himself.
 
D

DHK

<b>Moderator</b>
savedbymercy said:
No it does not. God is Faithful regardless , at least the One I serve !

2 Tim 2:13

If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful[To His Own Promises]: he cannot deny himself.
Click to expand...
1 Corinthians 10:13 There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it.
14 Wherefore, my dearly beloved, flee from idolatry.

God is faithful to his dearly beloved. That is the context here.
He has no such promise to those that fall outside "his dearly beloved," or those that have not put their faith and trust in Christ.
 
S

savedbymercy

New Member
God is Faithful to Himself !

DHK said:
1 Corinthians 10:13 There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it.
14 Wherefore, my dearly beloved, flee from idolatry.

God is faithful to his dearly beloved. That is the context here.
He has no such promise to those that fall outside "his dearly beloved," or those that have not put their faith and trust in Christ.
Click to expand...

2 Tim 2:13

If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful[To His Own Promises]: he cannot deny himself.
 
D

DHK

<b>Moderator</b>
savedbymercy said:
2 Tim 2:13

If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful[To His Own Promises]: he cannot deny himself.
Click to expand...
That is not a promise to you SBM; it is a promise to Timothy, a pastor of the church of Ephesus in the first century. You have to be in his position to be able to receive such a promise. Timothy was a believer in Christ. He had trusted Christ as his Savior. He had acted on faith, believed in Christ. In fact if his own faith wavered, Christ would remain faithful to Timothy, not to you.
 
D

DHK

<b>Moderator</b>
savedbymercy said:
dhk



That is a declaration of God's Character !


2 Tim 2:13

If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful [To His Own Promises]: he cannot deny himself.
Click to expand...
Not in that particular verse; it is a promise to believers.
Believers are those who have put their faith in Christ.
Have you done that?
 
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