New survey: Only one-third of Catholics believe in Real Presence

[Reformed1689]

Christ explicitly states that He is the bread of life and that the bread He will give is His flesh. It doesn't get more explicit that that.

metaphor
■ noun a figure of speech in which a word or phrase is applied to something to which it is not literally applicable.
▶ a thing regarded as symbolic of something else.

If you believe His flesh was but a symbol and not actual flesh, then you are rehashing Docetism.

Strawman. I never said his flesh was a symbol. What I am saying is not even close to Docetism.

 

[Reformed1689]

Christ defines the bread as His flesh.

“I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.” - John 6:51

metaphor
■ noun a figure of speech in which a word or phrase is applied to something to which it is not literally applicable.
▶ a thing regarded as symbolic of something else.

 

[Adonia]

Again, symbolism. Apparently Catholics don't understand symbolism.

We understand what was given unto us through the ages which is the "Real Presence", not some silly grape juice and crackers. This is the understanding of those who came before us - the Apostles, the Early Church Fathers, theologians, the Bishops, Martin Luther - everyone right up to a renegade named Zwingli. Even when the great schism occurred between the East and West in the 11th century the Eastern Church never abandoned this truth.

So congratulations, you follow the lead of one man (Zwingli) and reject all the rest of Christendom, so how does it feel to be the odd man out?

 

[Reformed1689]

We understand what was given unto us through the ages which is the "Real Presence", not some silly grape juice and crackers.

Based on what?

This is the understanding of those who came before us - the Apostles

Prove it. Paul said you are doing it in remembrance. No Apostle said in Scripture that the Bread and Wine are the actual body and blood of Christ.

So congratulations, you follow the lead of one man (Zwingli) and reject all the rest of Christendom, so how does it feel to be the odd man out?

The Apostles never taught this. I go with them.

 

[Adonia]

No - once again: Comparing Himself to a Door and a Shepherd and a Vine is symbolism.
Calling Himself the "Bread of Life" was quite literal.

"This IS my Body."
"This IS my Blood."

Doesn't get much clearer than that . . .

That's right! Jesus said it, the Apostles believed it, the Scriptures record it and the Church teaches it. End of story! You would think that those who claim to love Jesus so much would accept this and flock to Him as He exists in the Holy Eucharist. This is plain for all to see, the highlight of Baptist worship is the pulpit while the highlight of the Catholic worship is the true communion with Him.

 

[Reformed1689]

That's right! Jesus said it, the Apostles believed it, the Scriptures record it and the Church teaches it. End of story! You would think that those who claim to love Jesus so much would accept this and flock to Him as He exists in the Holy Eucharist. This is plain for all to see, the highlight of Baptist worship is the pulpit while the highlight of the Catholic worship is the true communion with Him.

metaphor
■ noun a figure of speech in which a word or phrase is applied to something to which it is not literally applicable.
▶ a thing regarded as symbolic of something else.

 

[Adonia]

Based on what?

The Scriptures and Jesus's own words.

Prove it. Paul said you are doing it in remembrance. No Apostle said in Scripture that the Bread and Wine are the actual body and blood of Christ.

The Scriptures proves it, the historical record of 99% acceptance by all of Christendom through the ages proves it. I can't help it if you are stuck on stupid.

The Apostles never taught this. I go with them.

No, you are going with one man Zwingli and you just err in your interpretation of what they believed.

Remember St. Paul said in Corinthians: "26 For as often as you eat this bread and drink this cup, you proclaim the Lord’s death until He comes. 27Therefore, whoever eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of sinning against the body and blood of the Lord. 28Each one must examine himself before he eats of the bread and drinks of the cup.…

That passage cannot be read intelligently by anyone and then come to the conclusion that the "Real Presence" is what the truth is scripturally.

 

[Reformed1689]

That passage cannot be read intelligently by anyone and then come to the conclusion that the "Real Presence" is what the truth is scripturally.

EXACTLY!

 

[Reformed1689]

The Scriptures and Jesus's own words.

Jesus own words were easily understood as a metaphor.

The Scriptures proves it, the historical record of 99% acceptance by all of Christendom through the ages proves it. I can't help it if you are stuck on stupid.

The Scriptures do not prove it. I can't help it if Catholics can't understand symbolism. It is convenient that:

I am the door - Not literal
I am the vine - Not literal
I am the shepherd of the sheep - Not literal
I am the bread - ALL OF A SUDDEN THIS IS LITERAL!

This makes NO sense. Not logical sense, not textual sense, not scientific sense, not theological sense.

Remember St. Paul said in Corinthians: "26 For as often as you eat this bread and drink this cup, you proclaim the Lord’s death until He comes. 27Therefore, whoever eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of sinning against the body and blood of the Lord. 28Each one must examine himself before he eats of the bread and drinks of the cup.…

Paul also said in that same chapter that this is a remembrance. Paul rightly understood the bread and wine as symbols of what Christ's Body and Blood accomplished for us. So if you are taking that symbol and you are not right with God, you are sinning against the already sacrificed body and blood of Christ. This in no way supports your position.

 

[Walpole]

metaphor
■ noun a figure of speech in which a word or phrase is applied to something to which it is not literally applicable.
▶ a thing regarded as symbolic of something else.


Strawman. I never said his flesh was a symbol. What I am saying is not even close to Docetism.

Let's try to get you to come clean here...

“I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.” - John 6:51


---> What does Christ say the bread that He gives is?

a. His flesh
b. A symbol



---> Is Christ's flesh actual flesh?

a. Yes
b. No, it is just a symbol

 

[Reformed1689]

Let's try to get you to come clean here...

“I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.” - John 6:51


---> What does Christ say the bread that He gives is?

a. His flesh
b. A symbol



---> Is Christ's flesh actual flesh?

a. Yes
b. No, it is just a symbol

What does Christ say? A.
What is it? B.

Again, metaphor.

 

[Walpole]

What does Christ say? A.
What is it? B.

Again, metaphor.

I have always said Protestantism is merely a hodge-podge of previously condemned heresies. That you admit to believing Christ's flesh was merely symbolic is an astonishing admission and only confirms my assertion.

Thank you for your honesty. Docetism is alive and well...at least here in this forum.

 

[Reformed1689]

I have always said Protestantism is merely a hodge-podge of previously condemned heresies. That you admit to believing Christ's flesh was merely symbolic is an astonishing admission and only confirms my assertion.

Thank you for your honesty. Docetism is alive and well...at least here in this forum.

STRAWMAN again. You are flat out lying about what I have or have not said. Show me where I said Christ's flesh is merely symbolic? You are bearing false witness and need to repent. I have said NO such thing and this is not Docetism.

 

[Walpole]

STRAWMAN again. You are flat out lying about what I have or have not said. Show me where I said Christ's flesh is merely symbolic? You are bearing false witness and need to repent. I have said NO such thing and this is not Docetism.

And now the games and the "You're a liar schtick" begins...

Either there are two davidtaylorjr's posting here or your account has been hacked as the person posting as you answered, B ("No, it is just a symbol") to my question as to whether Christ's flesh was actual flesh.

---> www.baptistboard.com/threads/new-survey-only-one-third-of-catholics-believe-in-real-presence.112981/page-6#post-2542852

---> www.baptistboard.com/threads/new-survey-only-one-third-of-catholics-believe-in-real-presence.112981/page-6#post-2542854

 

[Reformed1689]

And now the games and the "You're a liar schtick" begins...

Either there are two davidtaylorjr's posting here or your account has been hacked as the person posting as you answered, B ("No, it is just a symbol") to my question as to whether Christ's flesh was actual flesh.

---> www.baptistboard.com/threads/new-survey-only-one-third-of-catholics-believe-in-real-presence.112981/page-6#post-2542852

---> www.baptistboard.com/threads/new-survey-only-one-third-of-catholics-believe-in-real-presence.112981/page-6#post-2542854

Sorry, I misread. Of course his actual flesh was flesh. HOWEVER, the bread was not and is not his actual flesh.

 

[Walpole]

Sorry, I misread.

No problem.

Of course his actual flesh was flesh. HOWEVER, the bread was not and is not his actual flesh.

Christ explicitly states the bread IS His actual flesh...

---> “I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.” - John 6:51

 

[Reformed1689]

No problem.





Christ explicitly states the bread IS His actual flesh...

---> “I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.” - John 6:51

Again, your argument doesn't hold water.

1. I am the Vine - Not literal
2. I am the gate/door - not literal
3. I am the shepherd of sheep - not literal
4. I am the bread - LITERAL.

This is nonsense and dishonest biblical interpretation.

 

[David Kent]

No problem.


Christ explicitly states the bread IS His actual flesh...

---> “I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.” - John 6:51

He also states that the cup is his blood, not the wine.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Again, your argument doesn't hold water.

1. I am the Vine - Not literal
2. I am the gate/door - not literal
3. I am the shepherd of sheep - not literal
4. I am the bread - LITERAL.

This is nonsense and dishonest biblical interpretation.

Not if taken in the way Catholics see it. Here David, you are fighting an up hill battle. Why fight them? The only one with the power to alter perceptions is the HS ( let him do His job ).

 

[Reformed1689]

Not if taken in the way Catholics see it. Here David, you are fighting an up hill battle. Why fight them? The only one with the power to alter perceptions is the HS ( let him do His job ).

Oh I am not trying to convince them. However, I do know others might read these posts and the arguments should be answered.