Newbie Questions

[tyndale1946]

You know brethren as the moderator we can debate this topic till we are blue in the face... The OSAS have no problem with this you just have to believe it. If you don't believe it so what... This book the KJV or any other version you use CANNOT give eternal life. Was never meant to that is not its purpose... I believe in Spiritual Regeneration not Gospel Regeneration... The reason you are spiritually regenerated is because you were elected before the foundation of the world.

Romans 8:[29] For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

[30] Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

[31] What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us?

[32] He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?

[33] Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

[34] Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.

Romans 9:[11] (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth

Not all Gods children can see and understand the doctrine of election but this doctrine does not belong to John Calvin... It was here long before Calvin came on the scene. To say that the many are called few are chosen illustration that some use apply to eternal salvation is to miss the point... I believe it applies to those who follow the Lord in discipleship here on earth and if it doesn't then heaven will be empty.

If it is election then God made the election by his foreknowledge and election and predestination go hand in hand. You can't have one without the other and you didn't have anything to do to get either one. One question for everyone here... Would the God of glory leave your eternal salvation in your hands to accept or reject after the sinful actions of our parents Adam and Eve?... NO WAY!... Where is eternal life?

John 5:[39] Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.
As with the doctrine of election God will save ALL his blood bought children and not lose a one.
So brethren I leave you with this thought as it is the Lord the enlightens and brings his children to his gospel truths.

II Timothy 2:[7] Consider what I say; and the Lord give thee understanding in all things... Brother Glen Of The Primitive Baptist Brethren

 

[romanbear]

Hi Pastor Larry;
While I respect your position I don't understand your fear of other ideas .Suggesting that you've ruined my day

.You couldn't ruin my day when my Joy comes from Jesus Christ . Besides this is a forum for debates and who wins is not that important to me. It's truth that's important and not our ideas.Don't you agree?

.
May God Bless you
Romanbear
Peace

 

[romanbear]

Hi Tyndale;
While you are convinced I am not. As brought to my attention just the other day.There seems to be no such thing as OSAS according to Mathew 18:23-35.You have no good answers for Jn 3:16 Act 16:31These next verses I had to cut and paste
Rom 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

Rom 10:10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

As I said in my other post on this same topic we first have to trust in Jesus.As you have said that you believe in regeneration so do I it's just that it doesn't happen till we first believe.

I have done what these verses I've quoted above say. Have you? and if you did why would you need to, if your saved already?. Why would Paul make such a statement and place it in this book of Romans.Was it to tempt those who cannot be saved?.These questions should be answered don't you think if you believe what you believe.All these verses tell us how to be born again. Why be born again of water and spirit if we don't need to be.Unconditional means no conditions necessary doesn't it?.Sometimes I have to ask myself when I read something that seems contradictive, which is which, (or are they all truth).Then I realize that some things in scripture can't be understood until the Father let's you understand. None of what you have posted supports what you say as I understand it. Which is why we have we this disagreement between calvinist and arminians actually 5 disagreements.I really do wish you would consider my questions Please. As I can't understand with out answers.

Quote from Tyndale;

________________________________________________________________

To say that the many are called few are chosen illustration that some use apply to eternal salvation is to miss the point... I believe it applies to those who follow the Lord in discipleship here on earth and if it doesn't then heaven will be empty.

_________________________________________________________________

Actually this statement suggest that we have to work our way to heaven by being a disciple.this one scripture proves this isn't so.

Rom 4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

May God bless

Romanbear

Peace

 

[tyndale1946]

Romanbear I will not beat TULIP in the ground as I have been here over a year and we have flip flopped this debate to fews satisfaction. You had no control over your natural birth and you certainly have no control over your spiritual birth. That is what I believe and also where I stand... You said that there are contradictions and then you take those and apply them to eternal salvation... There is also a salvation in time to the child of God on his way to glory. This salvation is not to gain eternal life but because he already has it. I thank the God of glory every day he didn't leave my Eternal Salvation in my hands but it is secured in Jesus never to be lost.
Ask any of my Primitive Baptist brethren about what I said and all will concur... Then again when we sing Amazing Grace we know exactly what the words mean!

II Timothy 2:[7] Consider what I say; and the Lord give thee understanding in all things... Brother Glen Of The Primitive Baptist Brethren

 

[romanbear]

Hi Tyndale;

I haven't been here for much more than a month. As far as being new, ("or a long timer to this site"). What does this have to do with what we were debating about?

.You are the one who approached me.Now you seem tired already.You tell me I base my eternal salvation on contradictions . When all I said about contradictions was that sometimes things seems contradictive. If you would have read my whole post, you may have been able to tell that this is what I was talking about.That God reveals to man what He wants him to know and seals up the rest.Which is why Christ spoke in parables which left many confused.

To be elected there has to be an election .To be a fair election somethings have to be known about the ones running.God new before hand, who and who would not believe in Him. Although God knows the out come before the beginning, man does not. Man had to first choose in order for God, To know who would choose.In other words God knew who would willingly choose to believe in Him.He did not force us to Believe. I find it intresting that you refuse to answer my questions. Is it because you don't have the answers?. All I'm asking for is a little compassion from you to answer my questions?, and you seem to be unconcerned and unjustly critical of me.Why?
The whole reason we enter in to debate is to offer some light to the given subject and have our faith challenged, we already know there is someone who will disagree.I look at a debate as a way to learn. I've learned a lot from them.What I hope to learn is if what I believe is truth.You see I believe that while sometimes truth is covered up for a while.Truth will eventually prevail.If you can't answer my questions I can't learn what I personally need to know.
I admit that no one has a perfect religon, not you nor me.Do you really want to turn out your light, because you have discussed it before?.
Romanbear
Peace

 

[Wisdom Seeker]

Okay, so to be Armenian is not what the PBS show last night was about as far as this forum then I guess you are saying. You are not speaking about the Christian Country that has gone through genoside by the Turkish and that has kept their Christian roots and heritage for 1,700 years no matter what country they have either willing become a part of or where moved against their will. You are not speaking about the people who started out in Armenia and Celicia then?

Okay...then I guess this forum is for sects of Christianity that I do not align with...so this will more than likely be my last post here.

It's weird how Christianity has devided, and devided, and devided so much that there are so many different titles and beliefs...makes my head spin.

 

[Pastor Larry]

Originally posted by romanbear:
While I respect your position I don't understand your fear of other ideas

I am not fearful of "other ideas" in the least. It's just that I have been there, studied Scripture, and can give scriptural responses to those other ideas. The truth of God is what is important.

.Suggesting that you've ruined my day

.You couldn't ruin my day when my Joy comes from Jesus Christ .

It was a tongue in cheek comment about the fact that what you said sounded very much like something a Calvinist would say. It was purely rhetorical, not personal.

 

[russell55]

Okay...then I guess this forum is for sects of Christianity that I do not align with...so this will more than likely be my last post here.

They are not really "sects" of Christianity. They are the two orthodox evangelical viewpoints on HOW we are saved. You probably do align more or less with one or the other viewpoint--unless you are unorthodox. Many people object to being labled one or the other, but they probably fall into one category or the other regardless.

 

[Rev. G]

Okay, so to be Armenian is not what the PBS show last night was about as far as this forum then I guess you are saying. You are not speaking about the Christian Country that has gone through genoside by the Turkish and that has kept their Christian roots and heritage for 1,700 years no matter what country they have either willing become a part of or where moved against their will. You are not speaking about the people who started out in Armenia and Celicia then?

Armenian - someone from Armenia.

Arminian - someone who holds to the theological precepts of Jacobus Arminius.