NHS: Starving Alfie to death was just 'redirecting care'

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Hadn’t considered this scenario, but seems totally plausable considering his replies!!!
This would be a terrible cloud hanging overhead. But this is exactly what WE would have under a progressive utopian dream.

Agreed...but interestingly enough it’s almost here in the guise of states rights. Over 25 years ago, the socialist state of New Jersey tried to take my Cerebral palsy sister away from us and make her a ward of the state...under NJ state law they thought they could do it, however not under Pennsylvania law ( some other states also )....we would have just moved. In our country, we have freedom to run if necessary....apparently not in the UK.

It was nothing to do with the Government: the courts adjudicated a dispute between the parents, the hospital and the representatives of Alfie as to what was in Alfie's best interests. Theresa May and her Government had no say in it whatsoever, being subject to the Courts the same as everyone else. The reason the Courts decided that it wasn't in Alfie's best interests to transfer him to Italy was that (a) all that the Italian hospital was offering was not a cure but palliative care coupled with artificially keeping him alive (equivalent to performing CPR endlessly on someone who's flatlined) and (b) because even moving someone being ventilated from one part of a hospital to another would have inflicted unnecessary pain and probably have hastened the end, let alone moving him from one country to another!

shouldnt that have been the decision of the parents, not the courts?

 

[David Kent]

Thanks for admitting that the courts make the determinations in these cases.

Th doctors decide on the best treatment for the patient . In this case the parents objected. The medical staff then applied to the court. The court had to decide. Withdrawing life support is not killing the child.

 

[Bro. Curtis]

Th doctors decide on the best treatment for the patient . In this case the parents objected. The medical staff then applied to the court. The court had to decide. Withdrawing life support is not killing the child.

In America they could go to another doctor. No court would prevent it.

 

[Matt Black]

Thanks for admitting that the courts make the determinations in these cases.

Of course they do. It is a matter of fact; there is nothing to 'admit' as if it were some kind of 'guilty secret'

 

[Matt Black]

shouldnt that have been the decision of the parents, not the courts?

IF the parents are medically qualified, perhaps.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

So you think threatening to kill doctors and nurses is Ok? Or forcing staff and patients (other children, remember) to run the gauntlet of a baying mob, telling said patients that the doctors are going to kill them, is Ok? You don't have a problem with that?

Dr Ravi Jayaram

I’d have a problem with his practicing medicine in the United States

 

[Bro. Curtis]

So if you have no medical training you should have no say in your child’s treatment ? Can’t get another opinion/ seek other treatment. Not unless you have (I’m sure state-sponsored) medical training.

Wow.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

IF the parents are medically qualified, perhaps.

Medically qualified, that’s a laugh. This kid was given a death sentence, so why not give the parents say where and when Allie died.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

So if you have no medical training you should have no say in your child’s treatment ? Can’t get another opinion/ seek other treatment. Not unless you have (I’m sure state-sponsored) medical training.

Wow.

Socialized medicine Curtis

 

[Matt Black]

So if you have no medical training you should have no say in your child’s treatment ? Can’t get another opinion/ seek other treatment. Not unless you have (I’m sure state-sponsored) medical training.

Wow.

Of course they had a say: they were a party to the court case for goodness sake! Haven't you read the judgements?

 

[Bro. Curtis]

Socialized medicine Curtis

Remember, he said, even with the parents being trained, that “perhaps” the parents can decide treatment.

 

[Matt Black]

Medically qualified, that’s a laugh. This kid was given a death sentence, so why not give the parents say where and when Allie died.

They did: they had several days in court. The condition gave him the death sentence not the doctors.

My sister is a consultant paediatrician and, frankly, I find people making political capital out of this tragic case by trading her profession to be disgusting.

 

[Bro. Curtis]

And now he’s claiming the parents “did” have say in the treatment which is absolute hogwash. The parents were prevented from even taking him home.

 

[Matt Black]

Remember, he said, even with the parents being trained, that “perhaps” the parents can decide treatment.

I didn't say "have no say", I said it shouldn't be their sole decision.

If the parents were the medical experts you imply then surely they could have treated Alfie themselves rather than take him to a hospital

 

[Bro. Curtis]

They did: they had several days in court. The condition gave him the death sentence not the doctors.

My sister is a consultant paediatrician and, frankly, I find people making political capital out of this tragic case by trading her profession to be disgusting.

Gee that’s too bad.

Some of us see this garbage coming here. Nothing wrong with discussing it and warning each other.

 

[church mouse guy]

Of course they do. It is a matter of fact; there is nothing to 'admit' as if it were some kind of 'guilty secret'

That's right. That's what I said earlier in the thread. Once you check into the NHS, you are treated like government property. You cannot even leave and you are threatened with arrest and felony conviction if you do. The British doctors and judges have decided that they are the supreme medical authorities in the world--which contradicts the Cuban authorities, who say the same thing about the Cuban medical system, deemed the finest in the world by Michael Moore.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

They did: they had several days in court. The condition gave him the death sentence not the doctors.

My sister is a consultant paediatrician and, frankly, I find people making political capital out of this tragic case by trading her profession to be disgusting.

So what are you saying, that the parents were held incompetent in making life and death decisions for their own child?

 

[church mouse guy]

Th doctors decide on the best treatment for the patient . In this case the parents objected. The medical staff then applied to the court. The court had to decide. Withdrawing life support is not killing the child.

Do you even read what you are posting? That is just about what Americans have been saying about your socialized medicine for years.

 

[Matt Black]

And now he’s claiming the parents “did” have say in the treatment which is absolute hogwash. The parents were prevented from even taking him home.

So, what, are you saying they DIDN'T have a say in the proceedings. Weird how they're a party to the court action
..

 

[church mouse guy]

So if you have no medical training you should have no say in your child’s treatment ? Can’t get another opinion/ seek other treatment. Not unless you have (I’m sure state-sponsored) medical training.

Wow.

Socialized medicine owns people.