NIV 2011 Revision…Thoughts?

[StephenUSAFVet]

So let me start off by saying that I really do not wish for this post to become a text source debate and why you do or do not think the source of the texts is good or bad in your opinion.

I simply want to get other believers input on the NIV 2011. It’s at the top of the charts for sales in 2021, with the KJV at #2. I’ve read some criticism regarding the 2011 revision, and wondering if anyone has any input on it, or can further discuss the pros and cons of the revision.

For the record, I currently read and study out of four translations: KJV, NASB1995, ESV2016, and NIV2011.

Thank you.

 

[Martin Marprelate]

I dislike the NIV 2011, and my church still uses the 1984 version. If we change, I expect we shall move to the ESV.
I dislike all 'Gender Neutral' Bibles, and I concede that the NIV is not the worst, but I also dislike the wretchedly jerky way it tries to straddle the Gender fence. For example. John 11:25. “I am the resurrection and the life. The one who believes in me will live, even though they die.” Job 33:26. ‘Then that person can pray to God and find favour with him, they will see God’s face and shout for joy; he will restore them to full well-being.' Yuk!
More important are the places where the Person of Christ is obscured. Hebrews 2:6-9, quoting Psalm 8 is a case in point. I wrote an article on this about 8 years ago: The F.I.E.C. and the N.I.V. 2011

As Gender issues become more and more prominent, I think it's important for churches to make a stand, and the best way to do that is to eschew Gender Neutral Bibles and go with the NKJV, ESV or NASB.

 

[Ziggy]

I have often wondered why "progressive" gender-neutralization politics should override good grammar, particularly in Bible translations.

The simple solution would be to provide a note explaining (as now apparently necessary) the biblical and traditional use of the English "he" as a generic pronoun, inclusive in contexts where a specific male individual is not in view.

So why should the evangelical believer or evangelical translation committees ever capitulate to the secular liberal progressives on this matter?

 

[Van]

For your consideration:
Flaws found in the NIV

1) 1 Thessalonians 4:9, love for one another should read "sibling love."
2) Mark 1:41 Jesus was indignant should read, "moved with anger."
3) John 1:16 should read, "...grace after grace."
4) John 21:5 friends should read, "children."
5) Acts of the Apostles 13:50 "leaders" should be italicized to indicate an addition to the text.
6) Romans 3:25 sacrifice of atonement should read, "propitiatory shelter."
7) 1 Corinthians 16:13 "be courageous" should read, "act like men."
8) Ephesians 2:3 deserving of wrath should read, "children of wrath."
9) Colossians 1:28 the omission of "every man" (or every person) reduces the force of the teaching that the gospel is understandable to every person.
10) 2 Thessalonians 2:13 to be saved should read, "for salvation."
11) 2 Thessalonians 3:6 who is idle should read, "who leads an undisciplined life"
12) 1 Timothy 3:16 appeared in the flesh should read, "revealed in the flesh."
13) Titus 3:4 love should read, "love for mankind."
14) Hebrews 10:14 sacrifice should read, "offering."
15) James 2:5 to be rich in faith should read, "yet rich in faith."
16) 1 Peter 4:6 those who are now dead should read, "those who are dead."
17) 1 John 2:2 atoning sacrifice should read, "propitiation."
18) 1 John 4:10 atoning sacrifice should read, "propitiation."
19) Revelation 13:8; 17:8 from the creation should read, "since the foundation." And Matthew 25:34 and Hebrews 4:3 since the creation should read "since the foundation."
20) Revelation 22:21 be with God's people should read, "be with all."
21) 1 Samuel 15:19 the Lord should read "the voice of the Lord."
22) 1 Samuel 15:20 the Lord should read "the voice of the Lord."
23) 1 Samuel 15:22 the Lord should read "the voice of the Lord."
24) Philemon 1:6 the verse should read as follows: "I pray that your participation in the faith may be effective in deepening your understanding of every blessing that belongs to all of you in Christ Jesus."
25) 1 Corinthians 14:29 should read "Let two or three prophets speak, and the others evaluate." The NIV added "carefully" and "what is said."
26) 1 Corinthians 6:19 "your bodies are temples of the Holy Spirit, who is in you" should read "your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit in all of you.
27) Matthew 3:11 should read, ""As for me, I baptize all of you with water for repentance, but He who is coming after me is mightier than I, and I am not fit to remove His sandals; He will baptize some of you with the Holy Spirit and others with fire.
28) Matthew 11:12 should read, ""Since the days of John the Baptist until now, the kingdom of the heavens has been forcefully sought, and forceful people are laying hold of it."
29) 1 Corinthians 2:14 does not say all things that come from the Spirit, therefore the verse should read: The person without the Spirit does not accept some of the things of the Spirit of God but considers them foolishness, and cannot understand them because they are discerned only through the Spirit,
30) Titus 2:11 "Offer" has been added which alters the message, the verse should read: For the grace of God, who provides salvation, has appeared to all people.
31) 1 Corinthians 3:1: Siblings I could not speak to you as people with the Spirit, but as to people without the Spirit, as babes in Christ who have yet to learn from the Spirit.
32) Acts of the Apostles 13:48: When the Gentiles heard this, they were glad and honored the word of the Lord and as many as accepted direction to eternal life believed.
33) Revelation 14:3, redeemed should read purchased.
34) 2 Peter 2:4, "hell" should be translated "Tartarus."
35) Romans 12:10, "love" should be translated "sibling love"
36) Acts of the Apostles 28:2, unusual kindness should be "love for humankind."
37) 1 Peter 2:3 should read "kindness of the Lord."
38) Luke 6:4 should read "lawful for Priests alone."
39) Luke 9:18 "praying in private" should read "praying alone"
40) Luke 10:40 "doing the work by myself" should read "doing the work alone."
41) Matthew 11:30 should read "My yoke is beneficial."
42) 1 Corinthians 15:33 should read "beneficial character."
43) John 6:29 should read "the work God requires of you."



Examples 1, 9, 13, 21, 22, 23, and 35 document omission of words or parts of words.
Examples 5, 15, 16, 25, 29 and 30 document addition of words.
Examples 2, 3, 4, 6, 7, 8, 10, 11, 12, 14, 17, 18, 19, 20, 26, 33, 34, 37, 38, 39, 40, 41, and 42 document replacement of the inspired historical meaning with a different meaning.
Example 24 and 28 documents a translation devoid of meaning, just an array of disconnected phrases.
Example 27 clarifies the confusion produced by the Greek plural "you."
Examples 31, 32 and 43 present an unambiguous correction to the NIV translations.

When translators "add" words or phrases, "omit" words or phrases, or translate words or phrases outside of the historical-grammatical meaning unnecessarily, in order to make doctrine driven choices, they are presenting a flawed translation in my opinion. All translations have flaws, the product of fallible people, but the NIV flaws seem abundant to me.

 

[Van]

More logs for the fire:
While the NIV translates Hades as Hades, it fails to translate Gehenna as Gehenna (the NIV goes with Hell) or Tartarus as Tartarus (again going with Hell).

Thus the following verses should read Gehenna instead of Hell:
Matthew 5:22, 5:29, 5:30, 10:28, 18:9, 23:15 and 23:33;
Mark 9:43, 9:45, and 9:47
Luke 12:5;
James 3:6

And 2 Peter 2:4 should read Tartarus instead of Hell. (item # 38)

 

[Van]

Consolidated Potential Improvements in the NIV's Translation of the New Testament [Part 1 or 2]

1) Matthew 3:11 should read, ""As for me, I baptize all of you with water for repentance, but He who is coming after me is mightier than I, and I am not fit to remove His sandals; He will baptize some of you with the Holy Spirit and others with fire.

2) Matthew 5:22, 5:29, 5:30, 10:28 "hell" should be translated as "Gehenna."

3) Matthew 11:12 should read, ""Since the days of John the Baptist until now, the kingdom of the heavens has been forcefully sought, and forceful people are laying hold of it."

4) Matthew 11:30 should read "My yoke is beneficial."

5) Matthew 18:19, 23:15, 23:33 "hell" should be translated as "Gehenna."

6) Matthew 25:34 “since the creation” should read "since the foundation."

7) Mark 1:41 Jesus was indignant should read, "moved with anger."

8) Mark 9:43, 9:45, 9:47 "hell" should be translated as "Gehenna."

9) Luke 6:4 should read "lawful for Priests alone."

10) Luke 6:36 be merciful, just as your Father is merciful should read be compassionate, just as your Father is compassionate

11) Luke 9:18 "praying in private" should read "praying alone"

12) Luke 10:40 "doing the work by myself" should read "doing the work alone."

13) Luke 11:50 should read "since the foundation..."

14) Luke 12:5, hell should read Gehenna

15) Luke 15:7 reads do not need to repent (turning the noun into a verb) rather than who needs no repentance.

16) Luke 18:13, "be merciful" should read "be propitious"

17) John 1:16 should read, "...grace after grace."

18) John 6:29 should read "the work God requires of you."

19) John 21:5 friends should read, "children."

20) Acts of the Apostles 2:4, tongues should read foreign languages.

21) Acts of the Apostles 13:48: When the Gentiles heard this, they were glad and honored the word of the Lord and as many as accepted direction to eternal life believed.

22) Acts of the Apostles 13:50 "leaders" should be italicized to indicate an addition to the text.

23) Acts of the Apostles 28:2, unusual kindness should be "love for humankind."

24) Romans 1:6 - rather than "called to belong to" should read "positionally sanctified in."

25) Romans 1:7 called to be his holy people should read "positionally sanctified as saints."

26) Romans 3:22 “through faith in Jesus” should read “through the faithfulness of Jesus”

27) Romans 3:25 sacrifice of atonement should read, "propitiatory shelter."

28) Romans 8:15, "brought your adoption to sonship should read "brought God's pledge to your promised benefits as children of God.

29) Romans 8:28 called according to his purpose should read "positionally sanctified according to His purpose."

30) Romans 12:1, "...in view of God's mercies should read "in view of God's compassions..

31) Romans 12:10, "love" should be translated "sibling love"

32) 1 Corinthians 1:2 "to those sanctified in Christ Jesus and called to be his holy people," should read "to those positionally sanctified in Christ Jesus and set apart as His holy people.

33) 1 Corinthians 1:24 "to those who are the called" should read "to those positionally sanctified"

34) 1 Corinthians 2:14 does not say all things that come from the Spirit, therefore the verse should read: The person without the Spirit does not accept some of the things of the Spirit of God but considers them foolishness, and cannot understand them because they are discerned only through the Spirit,

35) 1 Corinthians 3:1: Siblings I could not speak to you as people with the Spirit, but as to people without the Spirit, as babes in Christ who have yet to learn from the Spirit.

36) 1 Corinthians 6:19 "your bodies are temples of the Holy Spirit, who is in you" should read "your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit in all of you.

37) 1 Corinthians 14:29 should read "Let two or three prophets speak, and the others evaluate." The NIV added "carefully" and "what is said."

38) 1 Corinthians 15:33 should read "beneficial character."

39) 1 Corinthians 16:13 "be courageous" should read, "act like men."

 

[Van]

Improvements continued: [Part 2 or 2]

40) Galatians 2:16 should read, ""knowing that a person is not justified by the works of the Law, but by the faithfulness of Jesus Christ, we have put our faith in Christ Jesus so that we may be justified by the faithfulness of Christ, and not by the works of the Law, because by the works of the Law no one will be justified."

41) Ephesians 2:3 “deserving of wrath” should read, "children of wrath."

42) Colossians 1:28 the omission of "every man" (or every person) reduces the force of the teaching that the gospel is understandable to every person.

43) 1 Thessalonians 4:9, love for one another should read "sibling love."

44) 2 Thessalonians 2:13 to be saved should read, "for salvation."

45) 2 Thessalonians 3:6 who is idle should read, "who leads an undisciplined life"

46) 1 Timothy 3:16 appeared in the flesh should read, "revealed in the flesh."

47) Titus 2:11 "Offer" has been added which alters the message, the verse should read: For the grace of God, who provides salvation, has appeared to all people.

48) Titus 3:4 ”love” should read, "love for mankind."

49) Philemon 1:6 the verse should read as follows: "I pray that your participation in the faith may be effective in deepening your understanding of every blessing that belongs to all of you in Christ Jesus."

50) Hebrews 4:3 “since the creation should read “since the foundation”

51) Hebrews 10:14 “sacrifice” should read, "offering."

52) Hebrews 10:28, "without mercy should read "without compassion"

53) Hebrews 12:17 "he could not change what he had done" should read "he could not find the occasion for repentance."

54) James 2:5 to be rich in faith should read, "yet rich in faith."

55) James 3:6, "hell" should be translated as "Gehenna."

56) James 5:11, "... The Lord is full of compassion and mercy" should read "The Lord is tenderhearted and full of compassion"

57) 1 Peter 2:3 should read "kindness of the Lord."

58) 1 Peter 4:6 those who are now dead should read, "those who are dead."

59) 2 Peter 2:4, "hell" should be translated "Tartarus."

60) 1 John 2:2 atoning sacrifice should read, "propitiation."

61) 1 John 4:10 atoning sacrifice should read, "propitiation."

62) Jude 1:1 "To those who have been called, who are loved in God the Father and kept for Jesus Christ" should read "To those who have been "positionally sanctified," who are loved by God the Father and kept by Jesus Christ.

63) Revelation 13:8 and 17:8 "from the creation" should read, "since the foundation.

 

[StephenUSAFVet]

Thank you for the lengthy thoughts and providing your input. I don’t know why gender accuracy has become such a big ticket item in modern translations. I wish that a modern translation would stick with something and not change it every decade. But the Bible market is big and people will pay. All we have to do is follow the money.

 

[Van]

SNIP

For the record, I currently read and study out of four translations: KJV, NASB1995, ESV2016, and NIV2011.

Thank you.

I find the CSB and the NET (with its abundant footnotes) very helpful as well as the KJV, NKJV, NASB95 and 20,

 

[StephenUSAFVet]

I find the CSB and the NET (with its abundant footnotes) very helpful as well as the KJV, NKJV, NASB95 and 20,

I also have the NET, but only consult it for the footnotes, not the actual translation.

 

[Van]

I also have the NET, but only consult it for the footnotes, not the actual translation.

Me too, except I like the NET John 6:29, and where they translate the genitive as subjective, as in Christ's faithfulness. Your good old KJV often has "faith of Christ!"

 

[StephenUSAFVet]

I dislike the NIV 2011, and my church still uses the 1984 version. If we change, I expect we shall move to the ESV.
I dislike all 'Gender Neutral' Bibles, and I concede that the NIV is not the worst, but I also dislike the wretchedly jerky way it tries to straddle the Gender fence. For example. John 11:25. “I am the resurrection and the life. The one who believes in me will live, even though they die.” Job 33:26. ‘Then that person can pray to God and find favour with him, they will see God’s face and shout for joy; he will restore them to full well-being.' Yuk!
More important are the places where the Person of Christ is obscured. Hebrews 2:6-9, quoting Psalm 8 is a case in point. I wrote an article on this about 8 years ago: The F.I.E.C. and the N.I.V. 2011

As Gender issues become more and more prominent, I think it's important for churches to make a stand, and the best way to do that is to eschew Gender Neutral Bibles and go with the NKJV, ESV or NASB.

The NASB2020 has included gender-accurate language however.

 

[Reynolds]

I have often wondered why "progressive" gender-neutralization politics should override good grammar, particularly in Bible translations.

The simple solution would be to provide a note explaining (as now apparently necessary) the biblical and traditional use of the English "he" as a generic pronoun, inclusive in contexts where a specific male individual is not in view.

So why should the evangelical believer or evangelical translation committees ever capitulate to the secular liberal progressives on this matter?

Anyone that does not know the proper usage of "he" should repeat second grade.

 

[rlvaughn]

Perhaps you are thinking of the 2nd grade when we went to school. They may not be teaching them that anymore!

 

[Martin Marprelate]

The NASB2020 has included gender-accurate language however.

I don't have a NASB 2020. Would you kindly give me some examples of what you consider 'gender-accurate' language? Thank you.

 

[Yeshua1]

So let me start off by saying that I really do not wish for this post to become a text source debate and why you do or do not think the source of the texts is good or bad in your opinion.

I simply want to get other believers input on the NIV 2011. It’s at the top of the charts for sales in 2021, with the KJV at #2. I’ve read some criticism regarding the 2011 revision, and wondering if anyone has any input on it, or can further discuss the pros and cons of the revision.

For the record, I currently read and study out of four translations: KJV, NASB1995, ESV2016, and NIV2011.

Thank you.

Would say not a bad translation, but was much better when it was not nearly as much into inclusive languages, such as in the 1984 version!

 

[Yeshua1]

I dislike the NIV 2011, and my church still uses the 1984 version. If we change, I expect we shall move to the ESV.
I dislike all 'Gender Neutral' Bibles, and I concede that the NIV is not the worst, but I also dislike the wretchedly jerky way it tries to straddle the Gender fence. For example. John 11:25. “I am the resurrection and the life. The one who believes in me will live, even though they die.” Job 33:26. ‘Then that person can pray to God and find favour with him, they will see God’s face and shout for joy; he will restore them to full well-being.' Yuk!
More important are the places where the Person of Christ is obscured. Hebrews 2:6-9, quoting Psalm 8 is a case in point. I wrote an article on this about 8 years ago: The F.I.E.C. and the N.I.V. 2011

As Gender issues become more and more prominent, I think it's important for churches to make a stand, and the best way to do that is to eschew Gender Neutral Bibles and go with the NKJV, ESV or NASB.

Just did not like them removing Jesus as the Son of man in the psalms!

 

[Yeshua1]

The NASB2020 has included gender-accurate language however.

Yes, as the nas now reads like the Csb, prefer 1977 and 1995 editions!

 

[StephenUSAFVet]

Yes, as the nas now reads like the Csb, prefer 1977 and 1995 editions!

I also prefer the 95. Totally different thread, but what do you think of the upcoming LSB?

 

[StephenUSAFVet]

I don't have a NASB 2020. Would you kindly give me some examples of what you consider 'gender-accurate' language? Thank you.

They’ve added “and sisters” in italics after the word “brothers” in MANY places. That’s probably the biggest example I can give you because it’s the one that stands out the most.