NIV 2011 Revision…Thoughts?

[Van]

Consolidated Potential Improvements in the NIV's Translation of the New Testament [Part 1 or 2]

1) Matthew 3:11 should read, ""As for me, I baptize all of you with water for repentance, but He who is coming after me is mightier than I, and I am not fit to remove His sandals; He will baptize some of you with the Holy Spirit and others with fire.

2) Matthew 5:22, 5:29, 5:30, 10:28 "hell" should be translated as "Gehenna."

3) Matthew 11:12 should read, ""Since the days of John the Baptist until now, the kingdom of the heavens has been forcefully sought, and forceful people are laying hold of it."

4) Matthew 11:30 should read "My yoke is beneficial."

5) Matthew 18:19, 23:15, 23:33 "hell" should be translated as "Gehenna."

6) Matthew 25:34 “since the creation” should read "since the foundation."

7) Mark 1:41 Jesus was indignant should read, "moved with anger."

8) Mark 9:43, 9:45, 9:47 "hell" should be translated as "Gehenna."

9) Luke 6:4 should read "lawful for Priests alone."

10) Luke 6:36 be merciful, just as your Father is merciful should read be compassionate, just as your Father is compassionate

11) Luke 9:18 "praying in private" should read "praying alone"

12) Luke 10:40 "doing the work by myself" should read "doing the work alone."

13) Luke 11:50 should read "since the foundation..."

14) Luke 12:5, hell should read Gehenna

15) Luke 15:7 reads do not need to repent (turning the noun into a verb) rather than who needs no repentance.

16) Luke 18:13, "be merciful" should read "be propitious"

17) John 1:16 should read, "...grace after grace."

18) John 6:29 should read "the work God requires of you."

19) John 21:5 friends should read, "children."

20) Acts of the Apostles 2:4, tongues should read foreign languages.

21) Acts of the Apostles 13:48: When the Gentiles heard this, they were glad and honored the word of the Lord and as many as accepted direction to eternal life believed.

22) Acts of the Apostles 13:50 "leaders" should be italicized to indicate an addition to the text.

23) Acts of the Apostles 28:2, unusual kindness should be "love for humankind."

24) Romans 1:6 - rather than "called to belong to" should read "positionally sanctified in."

25) Romans 1:7 called to be his holy people should read "positionally sanctified as saints."

26) Romans 3:22 “through faith in Jesus” should read “through the faithfulness of Jesus”

27) Romans 3:25 sacrifice of atonement should read, "propitiatory shelter."

28) Romans 8:15, "brought your adoption to sonship should read "brought God's pledge to your promised benefits as children of God.

29) Romans 8:28 called according to his purpose should read "positionally sanctified according to His purpose."

30) Romans 12:1, "...in view of God's mercies should read "in view of God's compassions..

31) Romans 12:10, "love" should be translated "sibling love"

32) 1 Corinthians 1:2 "to those sanctified in Christ Jesus and called to be his holy people," should read "to those positionally sanctified in Christ Jesus and set apart as His holy people.

33) 1 Corinthians 1:24 "to those who are the called" should read "to those positionally sanctified"

34) 1 Corinthians 2:14 does not say all things that come from the Spirit, therefore the verse should read: The person without the Spirit does not accept some of the things of the Spirit of God but considers them foolishness, and cannot understand them because they are discerned only through the Spirit,

35) 1 Corinthians 3:1: Siblings I could not speak to you as people with the Spirit, but as to people without the Spirit, as babes in Christ who have yet to learn from the Spirit.

36) 1 Corinthians 6:19 "your bodies are temples of the Holy Spirit, who is in you" should read "your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit in all of you.

37) 1 Corinthians 14:29 should read "Let two or three prophets speak, and the others evaluate." The NIV added "carefully" and "what is said."

38) 1 Corinthians 15:33 should read "beneficial character."

39) 1 Corinthians 16:13 "be courageous" should read, "act like men."

 

[Van]

Improvements fro Consideration continued: [Part 2 or 2]

40) Galatians 2:16 should read, ""knowing that a person is not justified by the works of the Law, but by the faithfulness of Jesus Christ, we have put our faith in Christ Jesus so that we may be justified by the faithfulness of Christ, and not by the works of the Law, because by the works of the Law no one will be justified."

41) Ephesians 2:3 “deserving of wrath” should read, "children of wrath."

42) Colossians 1:28 the omission of "every man" (or every person) reduces the force of the teaching that the gospel is understandable to every person.

43) 1 Thessalonians 4:9, love for one another should read "sibling love."

44) 2 Thessalonians 2:13 to be saved should read, "for salvation."

45) 2 Thessalonians 3:6 who is idle should read, "who leads an undisciplined life"

46) 1 Timothy 3:16 appeared in the flesh should read, "revealed in the flesh."

47) Titus 2:11 "Offer" has been added which alters the message, the verse should read: For the grace of God, who provides salvation, has appeared to all people.

48) Titus 3:4 ”love” should read, "love for mankind."

49) Philemon 1:6 the verse should read as follows: "I pray that your participation in the faith may be effective in deepening your understanding of every blessing that belongs to all of you in Christ Jesus."

50) Hebrews 4:3 “since the creation should read “since the foundation”

51) Hebrews 10:14 “sacrifice” should read, "offering."

52) Hebrews 10:28, "without mercy should read "without compassion"

53) Hebrews 12:17 "he could not change what he had done" should read "he could not find the occasion for repentance."

54) James 2:5 to be rich in faith should read, "yet rich in faith."

55) James 3:6, "hell" should be translated as "Gehenna."

56) James 5:11, "... The Lord is full of compassion and mercy" should read "The Lord is tenderhearted and full of compassion"

57) 1 Peter 2:3 should read "kindness of the Lord."

58) 1 Peter 4:6 those who are now dead should read, "those who are dead."

59) 2 Peter 2:4, "hell" should be translated "Tartarus."

60) 1 John 2:2 atoning sacrifice should read, "propitiation."

61) 1 John 4:10 atoning sacrifice should read, "propitiation."

62) Jude 1:1 "To those who have been called, who are loved in God the Father and kept for Jesus Christ" should read "To those who have been "positionally sanctified," who are loved by God the Father and kept by Jesus Christ.

63) Revelation 13:8 and 17:8 "from the creation" should read, "since the foundation.

 

[Van]

Are there any translations that provide a literal translation of "Gehenna" rather than "hell?" Of course, see YLT. Therefore the claim that selected translations do not have the rendering is valid, but the inference the choice cannot found in other translations is twaddle. There are at least 10 translations that use Gehenna rather than "Hell" such as YLT and the World English Bible (WEB).


The NIV could be greatly improved if many of the proposed improvements were adopted, and where valid misses are identified, even better remedies are open for consideration.

 

[George Antonios]

So why not "siblings" when the spiritual relationship is in view?

Angels are spirits. Have you ever noted a holy angel spoken of as female in the Bible?

 

[RipponRedeaux]

Angels are spirits. Have you ever noted a holy angel spoken of as female in the Bible?

I'm not usually on Van's side, but obviously he was referencing Christians in spiritual kinship with other Christians. Angels are not human.

 

[Van]

Angels are spirits. Have you ever noted a holy angel spoken of as female in the Bible?

The issue is the use of siblings as the translation of choice when the reference is to born anew believers. I believe "siblings" is a better translation of the intended meaning of the word because there is no difference in Christ. The relationship referenced is spiritual not physical.

If your object is to claim brothers or brethren used in the KJV does not need to be changed, your objection is non-germane, as I am addressing improvement in the NIV translation.

 

[Van]

Let us consider Acts 6:3. The NIV has brothers and sisters, but the KJV has brethren. Did the ladies vote or voice choices concerning the election of people within the early church? Or was the culture Patriarchal? In this case we (or at least I) do not know if ladies voted or voiced their choice of deacons. I suggest "brethren" covers the ambiguity in the absence of evidence for the participation of ladies.

 

[Van]

Acts of the Apostles 21:17
When we arrived at Jerusalem, the brothers and sisters received us warmly.

Here the NIV uses brothers and sisters to translate a masculine plural form of a Greek word. Our first question is Paul referring to Jews, those he shares a blood line relationship, or to believers, some of which are Gentile? I think a mixed group. Thus believers in Christ, and so "siblings" could be used.

Acts of the Apostles 28:14
There we found some brothers and sisters who invited us to spend a week with them. And so we came to Rome.
Here I think only the voice (by letter) was heard were male leaders. Thus brethren seems superior. Some believers also might be better, leaving to the reader to decide if only males expressed their opinion. And of course "some siblings" allows the reader to decide if females voiced the invitation.

 

[George Antonios]

I'm not usually on Van's side, but obviously he was referencing Christians in spiritual kinship with other Christians. Angels are not human.

Point remains the same.

 

[RipponRedeaux]

Point remains the same.

I have no idea what your point is.

 

[Van]

Here is the NIV rendering of Matthew 3:11:

“I baptize you with water for repentance. But after me comes one who is more powerful than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.
Footnotes explain that "with" could also be rendered "in."​

The confusion is that some interpret this verse as saying Jesus will baptize individuals both with the Holy Spirit and with fire. Others believe (as I do) that those He baptizes with the Holy Spirit will not also baptized with fire, but those not baptized with the Holy Spirit, He will baptizes them (at the Great White Throne Judgment) with the fire of Gehenna.

Two very different interpretations. Thus the proposed improvement according to the second viewpoint is

“I baptize you with water for repentance. But after me comes one who is more powerful than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry. He will baptize some of you with the Holy Spirit and others with fire.

 

[Martin Marprelate]

What is the Greek word which you are translating as 'some of' and which Greek word are you translating as 'others'?

 

[Van]

What is the Greek word which you are translating as 'some of' and which Greek word are you translating as 'others'?

Thanks for at least participating in the discussion of scripture. Which view do you hold? The World English Bible solves the issue by omitting "and fire." Verse 12 then address Jesus burning the chaff with unquenchable fire.

Here is the NET footnote:

With the Holy Spirit and fire. There are differing interpretations for this phrase regarding the number of baptisms and their nature. (1) Some see one baptism here, and this can be divided further into two options. (a) The baptism of the Holy Spirit and fire could refer to the cleansing, purifying work of the Spirit in the individual believer through salvation and sanctification, or (b) it could refer to two different results of Christ’s ministry: Some accept Christ and are baptized with the Holy Spirit, but some reject him and receive judgment. (2) Other interpreters see two baptisms here: The baptism of the Holy Spirit refers to the salvation Jesus brings at his first advent, in which believers receive the Holy Spirit, and the baptism of fire refers to the judgment Jesus will bring upon the world at his second coming. One must take into account both the image of fire and whether individual or corporate baptism is in view. A decision is not easy on either issue. The image of fire is used to refer to both eternal judgment (e.g., Matt 25:41) and the power of the Lord’s presence to purge and cleanse his people (e.g., Isa 4:4-5). The pouring out of the Spirit at Pentecost, a fulfillment of this prophecy no matter which interpretation is taken, had both individual and corporate dimensions. It is possible that since Holy Spirit and fire are governed by a single preposition in Greek, the one-baptism view may be more likely, but this is not certain. Simply put, there is no consensus view in scholarship at this time on the best interpretation of this passage.​

 

[Conan]

The World English Bible omites "and with fire", because it is not in the Majority Text. It's not in the Greek Text that it uses.

3:11. Omit "and [with] fire" after "Holy Ghost". HF

HF Hodges & Farstad 1982 as corrected in 1985

Matthew 1-15

 

[RipponRedeaux]

Let us consider Acts 6:3. The NIV has brothers and sisters, but the KJV has brethren. Did the ladies vote or voice choices concerning the election of people within the early church? Or was the culture Patriarchal? In this case we (or at least I) do not know if ladies voted or voiced their choice of deacons. I suggest "brethren" covers the ambiguity in the absence of evidence for the participation of ladies.

Even so, CSB, CEB and NASB agree with the NIV here.

 

[RipponRedeaux]

Acts of the Apostles 21:17
When we arrived at Jerusalem, the brothers and sisters received us warmly.


Acts of the Apostles 28:14
There we found some brothers and sisters who invited us to spend a week with them. And so we came to Rome.

Regarding Acts 21:17, CSB, CEB, NASB and NLT agree with NIV.
Concerning Acts 28:14, CSB, CEB and NASB agree with NIV. The NLT has 'believers.'

 

[Van]

What is the Greek word which you are translating as 'some of' and which Greek word are you translating as 'others'?

Those words were added to clarify the meaning and if the NIV used italics, would have been italicized.

 

[Martin Marprelate]

Those words were added to clarify the meaning and if the NIV used italics, would have been italicized.

The words, which of course are not in the Biblical text, were added by you to support your own interpretation of what the text says. You have been doing this over and over again.
This is exactly what the J.W.s do. If the Bible doesn't support their doctrines - no problem! Change the Bible!

As it happens, I agree with your interpretation of Matthew 3:11. I believe that verse 12 makes that clear.

But we dare not muck about with the word of God and adding to it or subtracting from it, or by changing singulars into plurals.

It is a fearful thing to be a preacher or Bible teacher (James 3:1). How much more so to be a Bible translator? I suggest that the greatest need of both teacher and translator is humility. To understand that one is handling the very words of the living God should make us cry out, "Who is sufficient for these things?"

 

[Van]

The words, which of course are not in the Biblical text, were added by you to support your own interpretation of what the text says. You have been doing this over and over again.
This is exactly what the J.W.s do. If the Bible doesn't support their doctrines - no problem! Change the Bible!

As it happens, I agree with your interpretation of Matthew 3:11. I believe that verse 12 makes that clear.

But we dare not muck about with the word of God and adding to it or subtracting from it, or by changing singulars into plurals.

It is a fearful thing to be a preacher or Bible teacher (James 3:1). How much more so to be a Bible translator? I suggest that the greatest need of both teacher and translator is humility. To understand that one is handling the very words of the living God should make us cry out, "Who is sufficient for these things?"

No need to make the practice of clarifying the translation by adding words seem like something that is not commonplace in many translations. Thanks for answering my question concerning your viewpoint. And the idea we should not strive to correctly understand scripture because that means we are mucking about with God's word is ludicrous.

 

[Van]

The World English Bible omits "and with fire", because it is not in the Majority Text. It's not in the Greek Text that it uses.

3:11. Omit "and [with] fire" after "Holy Ghost". HF

HF Hodges & Farstad 1982 as corrected in 1985

Matthew 1-15

Thanks

As you probably know, Mark 1:8 also does not have "and fire" but even in the MT, Luke 3:16 does have "and fire." And of course, those responsible for the CT thought the evidence for omission at Matthew 3:11 was insufficient. So the WEB/MT omission at Matthew 3:11 just moves the goal posts to Luke 3:16.