NIV problem, part II

[carajou]

I'm telling people how to get saved by showing them clearly how to do it in the English language. The average person couldn't care less how to get saved in the Greek language because he doesn't know the Greek language, and I'm not about to waste my time and his teaching him Greek before he can read how to do it in English. When you get before your congregation, Pastor, do you speak Greek? Or do you speak English? Do you tell people to get saved by speaking Greek? It makes sense if you're going to fly to Greece, but you're not flying to Greece anytime soon, are you? All I see are people here telling others to start researching what they think is supposed to be right in the Greek language. That's fine. But I'll trust in James Strong, W.E. Vine, Merril F. Unger. I think they did a lot more work in researching New Testament Greek than any of the modern scholars are doing now. Too many of them are Jesus Seminar apologetics.

As far as me being a KJVO, as stated by some others, why don't you look at my past postings? Not once did I make that claim. I will go for any Bible written in modern English, PROVIDED IT HASN'T BEEN DISTORTED AND PERVERTED BY MAN.

Baptist in Richmond said (about the NKJV triqueta symbol):

"That symbol IS NOT a "Satanic/occultic/pagan symbol."

If the good Baptist ever bothered to watch the tv series "Charmed", he'd see the symbol gracing the cover of their Book of Shadows, "witch" is hardly a Bible (pun intended). This symbol also graces the cover of "The Book of Craft: a Witches Book of Shadows" by Dorothy Morrison. Is she a Christian? Or are you going to make a case that a good witch can be a successful Jesus follower at the same time?

The Triqueta is used as the centerpiece for the logo for The Institute of Transpersonal Psychology (ITP). The ITP is a new age school following the Jungian Psychology [occultist Carl Jung]. One of their stated goals is ". . . to reach the recognition of divinity ithin" (www.itp.edu/about/tp.html) (see Genesis 3:5, "...ye shall be as gods...").

The same symbol (with a circle) is displayed by the rock group Led Zeppelin (before the NKJV was even an inkspot on the publisher's table). Members of Led Zeppelin are deeply involved in satanism and the occult. Guitarist Jimmy Page, so consumed with satanism, actually purchased satanist Aleister Crowley's mansion. Most believe the symbol is from the teachings of Crowley and represents 666. "The Hierophant" is a card taken from a Tarot deck set designed by Crowley. "Hierophant" is a priest in the occult and Eleusinian and his staff bears the symbol at the top.

And I didn't get into the text of the NKJV, did I? But that's later.

Your business as Christians, I remind you all, is to GET PEOPLE SAVED. Your responsibility in getting people saved, is to show the individual THE CORRECT WAY TO DO IT! It means you DON'T pull out the Textus Receptus to the homeless guy who speaks only English.

Just remember, if you do it the wrong way, if you muddled someone's salvation opportunity because you chose the wrong work, you'll be explaining it to God. If you really want to be in that kind of position, then go for it.

 

[RaptureReady]

NIV - 1 THES 1:10 ...and to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead--Jesus,
who rescues us from the coming wrath.
(future tense)

NASV - 1 THES 1:10 ...and to wait for His Son from heaven, whom He raised from the dead, that is Jesus, who rescues us from the wrath to come. (future tense)

NKJV - 1 THES 1:10 ...and to wait for His Son from heaven, whom He raised from the dead, even Jesus who delivers us from the wrath to come. (future tense)

KJV - 1 THES 1:10
And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come.
(past tense)


According to NIV, NASV, and NKJV Jesus is going to rescue us from the wrath to come. Sounds like it is the future tense of salvation, whatever that is.

According to KJV, he has already rescued us from the wrath to come.
ALL WRATH

 

[Pastor Larry]

Originally posted by HomeBound:
NIV - 1 THES 1:10 ...and to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead--Jesus,
who rescues us from the coming wrath.
(future tense)

NASV - 1 THES 1:10 ...and to wait for His Son from heaven, whom He raised from the dead, that is Jesus, who rescues us from the wrath to come. (future tense)

NKJV - 1 THES 1:10 ...and to wait for His Son from heaven, whom He raised from the dead, even Jesus who delivers us from the wrath to come. (future tense)

KJV - 1 THES 1:10
And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come.
(past tense)


According to NIV, NASV, and NKJV Jesus is going to rescue us from the wrath to come. Sounds like it is the future tense of salvation, whatever that is.

According to KJV, he has already rescued us from the wrath to come.
ALL WRATH

INteresting case. Did you check the what Paul wrote before you posted?? Unfortunately, you did not. If you had, you would have not posted this.

First you made a very simple mistake. Rescues and delivers are not future tense. A future tense is "will rescue" or "will deliver." "Rescues" and "delivers" are present tenses. Just check your sixth grade English that you think teh KJV is written in.

But let's move on to what Paul wrote. Paul used the word ruomenov. It is a present participle. That is right -- it is a present tense, not a past tense. Paul did not say that he "delivered us." Paul said that he "delivers us" or "rescues us." Now confer with your translations above and tell us which version or versions most accurately communicates what Paul actually said. Please be honest when you do because there are a number of people here who will see whatever it is that you write.

Sooner or later you will have to realize you are fighting a losing battle. Your attempts to attack God's word simply will not stand up under scrutiny. As we have all said, in every single version there are things that could be translated differently. But that does not undermine the authority of God's word. These attacks that you level against God's word show only how true God's word is and how good most translations are.

By the way, there is a future tense of salvation. Peter talks about it in 2 Peter 1 when he talks of a salvation ready to be revealed.

 

[Pastor Larry]

Originally posted by carajou:
I'm telling people how to get saved by showing them clearly how to do it in the English language. The average person couldn't care less how to get saved in the Greek language because he doesn't know the Greek language, and I'm not about to waste my time and his teaching him Greek before he can read how to do it in English.

No one is suggesting that you tell anyone how to get saved in Greek.

When you get before your congregation, Pastor, do you speak Greek? Or do you speak English?

English.

Do you tell people to get saved by speaking Greek?

Nope.

All I see are people here telling others to start researching what they think is supposed to be right in the Greek language. That's fine. But I'll trust in James Strong, W.E. Vine, Merril F. Unger. I think they did a lot more work in researching New Testament Greek than any of the modern scholars are doing now. Too many of them are Jesus Seminar apologetics.

Most modern scholars in language predate the Jesus seminar era. And their specialty is linguistics and lexicography. You trust in STrong, Vine, and Unger, but realize that they do not discuss grammar. If they are all you used, you would have missed the point of 1 Thess 1:10 like Homebound did. That was a simple failure to do your homework. It was shoddy handling of the word of God.

The reason we refer to Greek is because that is what God inspired. Translations come from the Greek and it is possible to understand different things different ways.

Your business as Christians, I remind you all, is to GET PEOPLE SAVED.

Actually your business first and foremost is to glorify God. Properly handling his word is an important part of that.

 

[Baptist in Richmond]

Originally posted by Sola_Scriptura:
In reference to the symbol on the cover of the NKJV, it is satanic and occult. How do I know this? I use to practice ceremonial magick and perform kabbalist rituals years ago and it is a common symbol signifying the goddess trinity. It is also used by Luciferians as it is a stylized 666. This is similar to the way groups of three witches or three ceremonial magicians stand to summon power.

Might you provide links to this extraordinary information?
BTW, just because the usage has been perverted by "ceremonial and kabbalist rituals" does not mean that the origins are Satanic.

 

[Baptist in Richmond]

Originally posted by carajou:

Baptist in Richmond said (about the NKJV triqueta symbol):

"That symbol IS NOT a "Satanic/occultic/pagan symbol."

If the good Baptist ever bothered to watch the tv series "Charmed", he'd see the symbol gracing the cover of their Book of Shadows, "witch" is hardly a Bible (pun intended). This symbol also graces the cover of "The Book of Craft: a Witches Book of Shadows" by Dorothy Morrison. Is she a Christian? Or are you going to make a case that a good witch can be a successful Jesus follower at the same time?

The Triqueta is used as the centerpiece for the logo for The Institute of Transpersonal Psychology (ITP). The ITP is a new age school following the Jungian Psychology [occultist Carl Jung]. One of their stated goals is ". . . to reach the recognition of divinity ithin" (www.itp.edu/about/tp.html) (see Genesis 3:5, "...ye shall be as gods...").

The same symbol (with a circle) is displayed by the rock group Led Zeppelin (before the NKJV was even an inkspot on the publisher's table). Members of Led Zeppelin are deeply involved in satanism and the occult. Guitarist Jimmy Page, so consumed with satanism, actually purchased satanist Aleister Crowley's mansion. Most believe the symbol is from the teachings of Crowley and represents 666. "The Hierophant" is a card taken from a Tarot deck set designed by Crowley. "Hierophant" is a priest in the occult and Eleusinian and his staff bears the symbol at the top.

And I didn't get into the text of the NKJV, did I? But that's later.

Your business as Christians, I remind you all, is to GET PEOPLE SAVED. Your responsibility in getting people saved, is to show the individual THE CORRECT WAY TO DO IT! It means you DON'T pull out the Textus Receptus to the homeless guy who speaks only English.

Just remember, if you do it the wrong way, if you muddled someone's salvation opportunity because you chose the wrong work, you'll be explaining it to God. If you really want to be in that kind of position, then go for it.

First of all, I don't watch that show, nor will I ever watch that how. Am I to assume that you do, given your detailed analysis?
Just because the pagans have used the symbol does not make it exclusively occultic.
As for your information of Jimmy Page, that is OLD NEWS. I am a little astonished that you did not include the fact that Bonzo Bonham, the drummer for the group, died in the aforementioned house, nor did you include the claim by Page that the house was built on the site of a church that burned down with the congregation in the sanctuary.

As for our "business as Christians," thanks for enlightening us. Actually, I have not seen anyone claim that they break out the TR and witness to the homeless. As you have failed to make a case that any of us are doing things "the wrong way" I really cannot make any comments to this statement.

 

[Scott J]

Originally posted by carajou:
I'm telling people how to get saved by showing them clearly how to do it in the English language. The average person couldn't care less how to get saved in the Greek language because he doesn't know the Greek language, ... All I see are people here telling others to start researching what they think is supposed to be right in the Greek language. That's fine.

Without the Greek, you do not have the English to witness with. The reason the Greek has greater authority is because it was divinely chosen by God Himself as the original human language of His Word.

But I'll trust in ...W.E. Vine...

Good. You are making some progress. Vine's commentaries and word studies are primarily linked to the RV with secondary references to the KJV.

Too many of them are Jesus Seminar apologetics.

Remarkably... or maybe not, KJVOnlyism and the liberalism behind the "Jesus Seminar" have a common origin... their departure from historic, fundamental Christianity as defended by RA Torrey et al. around the turn of the 20th century.

Baptist in Richmond said (about the NKJV triqueta symbol):

"That symbol IS NOT a "Satanic/occultic/pagan symbol."

If the good Baptist ever bothered to watch the tv series "Charmed", he'd see the symbol gracing the cover of their Book of Shadows, "witch" is hardly a Bible (pun intended). This symbol also graces the cover of "The Book of Craft: a Witches Book of Shadows" by Dorothy Morrison. Is she a Christian? Or are you going to make a case that a good witch can be a successful Jesus follower at the same time?

The Triqueta is used as the centerpiece for the logo for The Institute of Transpersonal Psychology (ITP). The ITP is a new age school following the Jungian Psychology [occultist Carl Jung]. One of their stated goals is ". . . to reach the recognition of divinity ithin" (www.itp.edu/about/tp.html) (see Genesis 3:5, "...ye shall be as gods...").

The symbol is probably celtic in origin then Christianized around 1000 AD. It like symbols such as the cross, blood, triangle, circle, various stars, etc. have been used by various groups to mean different things. The NKJV editors said they used it to represent the Trinity.

Amazingly, people who go nuts over a symbol ON THE OUTSIDE of the NKJV usually will defend tooth and nail the use of a pagan term (Easter, Acts 12:4) in the KJV.

The same symbol (with a circle) is displayed by the rock group Led Zeppelin (before the NKJV was even an inkspot on the publisher's table). Members of Led Zeppelin are deeply involved in satanism and the occult. Guitarist Jimmy Page, so consumed with satanism, actually purchased satanist Aleister Crowley's mansion. Most believe the symbol is from the teachings of Crowley and represents 666. "The Hierophant" is a card taken from a Tarot deck set designed by Crowley. "Hierophant" is a priest in the occult and Eleusinian and his staff bears the symbol at the top.

Madonna when asked why she has such an affinity for jewelry with crosses stated that she found the idea of a man being naked on a cross sexy.

Are we to stop using the cross now?

Your business as Christians, I remind you all, is to GET PEOPLE SAVED. Your responsibility in getting people saved, is to show the individual THE CORRECT WAY TO DO IT! It means you DON'T pull out the Textus Receptus to the homeless guy who speaks only English.

Just remember, if you do it the wrong way, if you muddled someone's salvation opportunity because you chose the wrong work, you'll be explaining it to God. If you really want to be in that kind of position, then go for it.

If this is really your view then your problems go alot deeper than views on the NKJV.

We don't save people. God does. Period. We cannot prevent nor cause someone to believe. Our job is to proclaim the gospel in submission to Christ for the glory of God.