No dead babies, little children, infants in Hell?

[standingfirminChrist]

You don't believe Christians should cry out to the Lord to avenge the deeds of the wicked?! Notice I said for the Lord to avenge.The Lord will indeed give justice to His elect.

I guess Psalm 73:17-20 is foreign to you :

"Then I went into your sanctuary, O God, and I finally understood the destiny of the wicked. Truly, you put them on a slippery path and send them sliding over the cliff to destruction. In an instant they are destroyed,
completely swept away by terrors.When you arise, O Lord,you will laugh at their silly ideass as a person laughs at dreams in the morning."

But you are still being evasive SFiC.Face the text and try to square it with your notions.

I fail to see in that verse where the psalmist said all of God's children were to cry out for vengeance.

I do however find in the gospels where Jesus Christ Himself told us to love our enemies... to bless them.

Doesn't sound like 'cry out for vengeance' to me.

Boy you Cal's need to study more.

 

[standingfirminChrist]

Whose names are written in The Lamb's Book of Life? Yes, the names of the elect alone are written there.No names of the non-elect are thus inscribed.Ya' got a heap of explaining ta do.

Funny, I cannot find one solitary Scripture verse that says 'The elect alone are in the Book of Life".

Methinks you are twisting the Word of God, Rippon.

 

[standingfirminChrist]

Yes...but what I keep asking is this...

are not the 144,000 believers? Therefore they are the elect.

Scripture nowhere states that the 144,000 are believers. Only that they are sealed servants. They are sealed for protection during the tribulation period. Sealed for a purpose.

Or do you think God seals non-believers for this job?

Where is your proof text that those sealed in Revelation 7 (the 144,000) are sealed because of being believers?

So far every group you have brought up are believers as I see it. Believers...the Church....the Bride is the elect of God.

I cannot find one verse that would say other wise

When you read the Word with the preconceived notion that only the elect are saved, you won't find any of the verses that speak otherwise. When you read with your own natural understanding and are not open to the spiritual truth, you won't see the truth.

 

[Thinkingstuff]

I heard (while in the US Air Force) that all Marines are going to heaven because they haven't reached the age of accountability yet! :laugh:

 

[webdog]

How does augustinian original sin fit with Ephesians?

Eph 2:1 You used to be dead because of your offenses and sins,
Eph 2:2 in which you once lived according to the ways of this present world and according to the ruler of the power of the air, the spirit that is now active in those who are disobedient.

 

[Amy.G]

I heard (while in the US Air Force) that all Marines are going to heaven because they haven't reached the age of accountability yet! :laugh:

:laugh: I thought all men were going to heaven for the same reason! :laugh:


Sorry guys! I couldn't resist!

You know what they say is the difference between men and boys.....just the price of their toys.

 

[Amy.G]

How does augustinian original sin fit with Ephesians?

Eph 2:1 You used to be dead because of your offenses and sins,
Eph 2:2 in which you once lived according to the ways of this present world and according to the ruler of the power of the air, the spirit that is now active in those who are disobedient.

How about we combine that verse with:
Rom 7:9 I was alive once without the law, but when the commandment came, sin revived and I died.

I do not believe we are born "dead".

 

[Rippon]

Funny, I cannot find one solitary Scripture verse that says 'The elect alone are in the Book of Life".

I guess you do not sing the grand hymn :"When The Roll Is Called Up Yonder". Or, if you do sing it -- you do not agree with it -- your singing is really fibbing.

A line from it goes :

"When his chosen ones shall gather to their home beyond the skies, And the roll is called up yonder I'll be there."

What roll is being referenced? It's the register of the names of His elect ones. The names were written before the world began.

But your roll is composed of not only the elect ( and you don't even think all of their names are inscribed), but the names of the non-elect. Well, the non-elect are the reprobates. They will abide in everlasting misery. You have to think this one through SFiC. Do you honestly insist that those who will not be in glory nevertheless have their names in the Lamb's Book of Life? Perish the thought!

 

[standingfirminChrist]

When His chosen ones are called, I will be there... along with many other saved who are not of the elect.

Elect were those who were called to specific services.

John clearly shows in his epistles that not all the saved are elect when he refers to some as 'elect' and some as 'in the truth.'

 

[Jarthur001]

When His chosen ones are called, I will be there... along with many other saved who are not of the elect.

Elect were those who were called to specific services.

John clearly shows in his epistles that not all the saved are elect when he refers to some as 'elect' and some as 'in the truth.'

and again I ask...

So the blessing found in Eph 1 to the chosen/elect of God do not apply to all believers?

 

[Rippon]

All Scripture Cited Is From The ESV

When His chosen ones are called, I will be there... along with many other saved who are not of the elect.

Elect were those who were called to specific services.

Election is to salvation SFiC."Specific services" is so much fluff.

Saved but not elect. That's quite the contradiction.

So you consider yourself non-elect? Ephesians 1:4,5 is not something that applies to you? You take no comfort it it?Or you reduce it demote it to calling to a special service?! Look at it again.

"even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blamless before him.In love he predestined us for adoption through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will"

Matthew 25:34;2 Thessalonians 2:13 and 2 Timothy 1:9 should be looked at also.

 

[standingfirminChrist]

Election is to salvation SFiC."Specific services" is so much fluff.

Saved but not elect. That's quite the contradiction.

So you consider yourself non-elect? Ephesians 1:4,5 is not something that applies to you? You take no comfort it it?Or you reduce it demote it to calling to a special service?! Look at it again.

"even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blamless before him.In love he predestined us for adoption through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will"

Matthew 25:34;2 Thessalonians 2:13 and 2 Timothy 1:9 should be looked at also.

Paul was speaking to specific people in Ephesus. He did not say to all saints all over the world, but 'to the saints which are in Ephesus".

Not everyone that is saved is elect. Get over it.

 

[Jarthur001]

Scripture nowhere states that the 144,000 are believers. Only that they are sealed servants. They are sealed for protection during the tribulation period. Sealed for a purpose.

If they are not sealed believers, they must be sealed non-believing sinners that are enemy of God. If this be the case, this is nothing but pure election 101.

If they are believers, then you case falls apart for this is another "group you were hoping to show were NOT believers, yet were elected.

No matter what your view holds no water.

Where is your proof text that those sealed in Revelation 7 (the 144,000) are sealed because of being believers?

I would NEVER say they were chosen because they believe. This is a view of a free-willer.

I am a Calvinist that holds that they were chosen TO believe, just as the Bible shows us. And yes..they became believers which are the elect.

When you read the Word with the preconceived notion that only the elect are saved, you won't find any of the verses that speak otherwise.

Christ does not have two brides. He chose the bride and bride come along that he was unfaithful to his chosen bride.

One church..chosen by God.

When you read with your own natural understanding and are not open to the spiritual truth, you won't see the truth.

Are you saying i'm blinded to the truth as are the lost? This is not allowed on the BB.

With each idea and each verse you want to twist....like saying chosen is not the same as election....you have been shown to be wrong.

What will you try next? Is it not easier to just believe the Bible as it is?

Even the great free-will hero john wesley believed believers were the elect.

John Wesley’s Explanatory Notes..

As he hath chosen us — Both Jews and gentiles, whom he foreknew as believing in Christ, 1 Peter 1:2.

even the beloved free-willer Adam Clark says we are the elect.

Verse 4. According as he hath chosen us in him] As he has decreed from the beginning of the world, and has kept in view from the commencement of the religious system of the Jews, (which the phrase sometimes means,) to bring us Gentiles to the knowledge of this glorious state of salvation by Christ Jesus. The Jews considered themselves an elect or chosen people, and wished to monopolize the whole of the Divine love and beneficence. The apostle here shows that God had the Gentiles as much in the contemplation of his mercy and goodness as he had the Jews; and the blessings of the Gospel, now so freely dispensed to them, were the proof that God had thus chosen them,............

I could go on.

 

[Jarthur001]

Paul was speaking to specific people in Ephesus. He did not say to all saints all over the world, but 'to the saints which are in Ephesus".

Not everyone that is saved is elect. Get over it.

oh man....

this is getting even better now.

Are you saying that Eph 1 is not to all saints, but only to that one city?

Now we have a city chosen. :BangHead:

where will this folly end?

 

[Rippon]

oh man....

this is getting even better now.

Are you saying that Eph 1 is not to all saints, but only to that one city?

Now we have a city chosen. :BangHead:

where will this folly end?

Shh! He's setting us straight because he's done the necessary study and we haven't.We need to learn from such a gifted guy like SFiC.

 

[Jarthur001]

I often joke about saving a silly quote.

I joke not on this. This thread will be saved. I have never seen such silliness in all the threads I have been a part of.

In fact I will save it right now so I will not forget.

Priceless. :type:

 

[standingfirminChrist]

oh man....

this is getting even better now.

Are you saying that Eph 1 is not to all saints, but only to that one city?

Now we have a city chosen. :BangHead:

where will this folly end?

You must be upset that Paul did not write a letter to the inhabitants of West Virginia and so, must add that in the text so you can deem yourself one of the people he was writing to.

Amazing. When will your folly end?

 

[Jarthur001]

You must be upset that Paul did not write a letter to the inhabitants of West Virginia and so, must add that in the text so you can deem yourself one of the people he was writing to.

Amazing. When will your folly end?

So you do believe that Eph is only for that one city. And Romans is only for Rome?

Forget WV...what about your town?

 

[standingfirminChrist]

So you do believe that Eph is only for that one city. And Romans is only for Rome?

Forget WV...what about your town?

There is application throughout all of Paul's epistles that we can take to the bank, so to speak.

For instance, the truth Paul wrote of the rapture, all Christians can embrace.

But there are specific terms and titles that were given only to certain people. The title of elect were only given to specific people of the saved... not to all the saved.

The elect lady. she was given the title. There was a service she was called into.

Why were her children not said to be elect? Why not Gaius? or the many who were said to be saved and in the truth in Romans 16. They were never said to be 'elect'.

Not all the saved were elect. Get over it.

 

[Jarthur001]

There is application throughout all of Paul's epistles that we can take to the bank, so to speak.

For instance, the truth Paul wrote of the rapture, all Christians can embrace.

But there are specific terms and titles that were given only to certain people. The title of elect were only given to specific people of the saved... not to all the saved.

The elect lady. she was given the title. There was a service she was called into.

Why were her children not said to be elect? Why not Gaius? or the many who were said to be saved and in the truth in Romans 16. They were never said to be 'elect'.

Not all the saved were elect. Get over it.

The greating in Eph ends before the message starts.

Verse 3 begins the message and is to ALL believers no matter what you say.

3Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in the heavenly realms with every spiritual blessing in Christ. 4For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight. In love 5he[c] predestined us to be adopted as his sons through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure and will— 6to the praise of his glorious grace, which he has freely given us in the One he loves. 7In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, in accordance with the riches of God's grace 8that he lavished on us with all wisdom and understanding. 9And he[d] made known to us the mystery of his will according to his good pleasure, which he purposed in Christ, 10to be put into effect when the times will have reached their fulfillment—to bring all things in heaven and on earth together under one head, even Christ.

Verse 4 is the verse you want to twist. Why? I know why. It does not fit your mode.

This is only one verse. We could go to many that would crush your view.

Like this one we will address after you admit you are wrong in Eph 1....

2 Tim 2:10 Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.