No man perishes for want of an atonement

Yes, thank you Allan. Needless to say, I agree absolutely.

Steve

 

No, as the sins for all were laid upon Jesus on Cross, but the means to access that grace and become saved is through Faith alone, and ONLY those whom God elected to be saved will be supplied means to get saved!

 

Let's see if I have this straight. Joe was on Christ's mind on the Cross. The debt of Joe's sins were paid. Not just Joe's sins in general, but Joe's sins distinctly. Each count. Those days as a teen looking at porn, his fornication throughout college, his love of money—every transgression. Jesus took those very acts upon Himself, and satisfied his debt. But Joe doesn't believe in Christ. So God is going to exact again from Joe what Christ already paid?

 

The Calvinist "penal substitution" is simply a stalking horse for "limited atonement." Inexcusable misrepresentation" describes the whole canard.

 

OK Skan when you look at 2 Peter 3:9 ....what do you see? Are we talking all here?

2 Peter 3:9

New International Version (NIV)

9 The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. Instead he is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance.

 

Van,

Would you say "Canard" has the same weight as "Boon-dongle"?

 

OK well this is how John Owen saw it:

Now , who are these of whom the apostle speaks , to whom he writes ? Such as had received "great and precious promises ," chap.1:4 , whom he calls "beloved," chap. 3:1 ; whom he opposeth to the "scoffers" of the "last days," verse 3; to whom the Lord hath respect in the disposal of these days ; who are said to be "elect," Matt.24:22 . Now , truly, to argue that because God would have none of those to perish , but all of them to come to repentance , therefore he hath the same will and mind towards all and every one in the world ( even those to whom he never makes known his will , nor ever calls to repentance , if they never once hear of his way of salvation ) , comes not much short of extreme madness and folly.

 

Is that a yes? (Answer yes or answer no, please.)

If the answer is yes, just to be more sure: let's pretend it were possible for Joe to have done just one evil thing his whole life besides disbelieve the Gospel. Let's say he disobeyed his mother. You're saying God has poured out His wrath upon His son for that one act. Justice has been met. That act has been dealt with. It no longer exists.

So, if Joe never comes to faith in Christ, the wrath that He faces, is it for his disbelief only, or is it also for the act of disobedience to his mother?

 

No, I think what I said is canard has the same weight as limited atonement.
Boon - dongle has more substance.

 

:laugh:fiddlesticks:laugh: you once again deny a complete ,full, perfect ,covenant redemption.:laugh:fiddlesticks:applause:

 

The perishing in 2 Thess 2:10 is NOT in reference to the final judgment, and besides, these folks stand in stark contrast to those in v 13, “that God chose you from the beginning unto salvation in sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth”.

 

"even those in heaven did evil deeds"

You care to explain what you mean by this? I don't get it.

 

I'll post again on this subject after church, but what Scripture do you suppose that I'd bring to the forum that says that Christ's blood can be wieghed out and valued at so many souls per fluid ounce or whatever? The idea is ridiculous which is why Hodge rejects it so contemptuously.

Steve

 

Mat 13:44 Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto a treasure hid in a field; the which when a man hath found, he hideth, and for joy thereof goeth and selleth all that he hath, and buyeth that field.

Jesus is the man, the treasure is the elect, and the field is the world (all men). The field does not belong to him, as all men are sold under sin. To obtain the treasure (the elect) hidden in this field (all men), he goes and sells all he has (his blood) and buys the entire field so he can obtain the treasure hidden in the field.

Mat 13:47 Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto a net, that was cast into the sea, and gathered of every kind:
48 Which, when it was full, they drew to shore, and sat down, and gathered the good into vessels, but cast the bad away.
49 So shall it be at the end of the world: the angels shall come forth, and sever the wicked from among the just,
50 And shall cast them into the furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

Jesus here is the net, the sea is the world, and the fish of every kind is men. The net caught fish of every kind, Jesus's blood paid for all men's sins. Those who believe (the just) are kept, those who are evil and do not believe are cast away.