No person can come to Christ by their own freewill ! 2

[Van]

Gods word teaches that Gods purpose in election is not conditioned on the will of man, good or bad, its made before they were born, God specifically emphasized that point, and people disregard it to their shame, Rom 9:11

11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth)

Its according to Gods own Sovereign call from within Himself.

On and on, as if God only chooses people for salvation and not for another purpose, such as schooling Judas as the betrayer. Everyone knows Jacob and Esua were not chosen for salvation because they were not chosen through faith in the truth, 2 Thessalonians 2:13.

 

[Brightfame52]

Are you calling pagan philosophy good?

I havent mentioned anything about that, so dont start with your usual false accusations.

 

[Brightfame52]

What's the lame excuse BF?

BF you pull verses out of the context in which they are found in the vain attempt to support philosophical views that have a pagan source.

When you continue to ignore context you are presenting your own views not the views of the original writer.

Quite often you actually contradict what the writer intended.

When you are shown a scripture truth from a particular context, to reject it by claiming, you need to know the context that's from . Like folk suppose to give you a book survey study b4 they can use a verse out of any given context. Not happening, you'll just be guilty of rejecting scripture.

 

[Brightfame52]

On and on, as if God only chooses people for salvation and not for another purpose, such as schooling Judas as the betrayer. Everyone knows Jacob and Esua were not chosen for salvation because they were not chosen through faith in the truth, 2 Thessalonians 2:13.

Gods word teaches that Gods purpose in election is not conditioned on the will of man, good or bad, its made before they were born, God specifically emphasized that point, and people disregard it to their shame, Rom 9:11

11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth)

Its according to Gods own Sovereign call from within Himself. The entire context of Rom 9 is about Salvation

 

[Silverhair]

I havent mentioned anything about that, so dont start with your usual false accusations.

Your the one that promotes a philosophy from the 4 th century that has it's roots in pagan teachings.

You call augustine's teachings good and we know he got those views from Stoicism, Neoplatonism, Gnosticism, and Manicheanism which are all pagan philosophies.

 

[Van]

Gods word teaches that Gods purpose in election is not conditioned on the will of man, good or bad, its made before they were born, God specifically emphasized that point, and people disregard it to their shame, Rom 9:11

11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth)

Its according to Gods own Sovereign call from within Himself. The entire context of Rom 9 is about Salvation

More nonsense, more misdirection. Did anyone say Esau and Jacob, chosen while in the womb, were chosen because of their will? No, but this poster blathers on. They were chosen conditionally, so the older would serve the younger and were not chosen for salvation through faith in the truth. This is the issue!!!

 

[Brightfame52]

Your the one that promotes a philosophy from the 4 th century that has it's roots in pagan teachings.

You call augustine's teachings good and we know he got those views from Stoicism, Neoplatonism, Gnosticism, and Manicheanism which are all pagan philosophies.

More false accusations, I guess thats all you can think of now

 

[Brightfame52]

More nonsense, more misdirection. Did anyone say Esau and Jacob, chosen while in the womb, were chosen because of their will? No, but this poster blathers on. They were chosen conditionally, so the older would serve the younger and were not chosen for salvation through faith in the truth. This is the issue!!!

Romans 9 is about Salvation, so is Rom 10 and Rom 11 and the purpose of election is discussed in Rom 9. Gods election of men to salvation isnt based upon anything they do or dont do, in fact the selection of them was b4 they exist. God makes that point perfectly clear, then folks like yourself, disregard it.

 

[Silverhair]

More false accusations, I guess thats all you can think of now

BF you are the one who holds to a 4 th century philosophy so those are not false accusations.

Denying the truth does not alter the truth BF.

Have you ever checked out the foundations of your religious view? I doubt that you have.

 

[Silverhair]

Romans 9 is about Salvation, so is Rom 10 and Rom 11 and the purpose of election is discussed in Rom 9. Gods election of men to salvation isnt based upon anything they do or dont do, in fact the selection of them was b4 they exist. God makes that point perfectly clear, then folks like yourself, disregard it.

Rom 9:30 What then will we say? That the Gentiles, who did not pursue righteousness, have obtained it, a righteousness that is by faith;
Rom 9:31 but Israel, who pursued a law of righteousness, has not attained it.
Rom 9:32 Why not? Because their pursuit was not by faith, but as if it were by works. They stumbled over the stumbling stone,

The Romans 9 passage is Paul’s answer to the Jewish objections of, ‘Why must one believe in Jesus if one is physically descended from Abraham, given God’s blessings on Abraham?’ and also, ‘How can it be that God will show favour on the Gentiles?’ Rom. 9 accentuates that belief in Jesus is for salvation.

 

[Van]

Romans 9 is about Salvation, so is Rom 10 and Rom 11 and the purpose of election is discussed in Rom 9. Gods election of men to salvation isnt based upon anything they do or dont do, in fact the selection of them was b4 they exist. God makes that point perfectly clear, then folks like yourself, disregard it.

Now this poster denies that Esau and Jacob were chosen to father two nations and were chosen so the older would serve the younger, and were not chosen for salvation because they were not chosen through faith. Basically any passage that conflicts with his man-made doctrine does not mean what it says. Such a position is either irrational or dishonest.

 

[Brightfame52]

BF you are the one who holds to a 4 th century philosophy so those are not false accusations.

Denying the truth does not alter the truth BF.

Have you ever checked out the foundations of your religious view? I doubt that you have.

You dont do anything now but talk about men

 

[Brightfame52]

Rom 9:30 What then will we say? That the Gentiles, who did not pursue righteousness, have obtained it, a righteousness that is by faith;
Rom 9:31 but Israel, who pursued a law of righteousness, has not attained it.
Rom 9:32 Why not? Because their pursuit was not by faith, but as if it were by works. They stumbled over the stumbling stone,

The Romans 9 passage is Paul’s answer to the Jewish objections of, ‘Why must one believe in Jesus if one is physically descended from Abraham, given God’s blessings on Abraham?’ and also, ‘How can it be that God will show favour on the Gentiles?’ Rom. 9 accentuates that belief in Jesus is for salvation.

Rom 9 teaches unconditional election. And nothing in Romans contradicts mans inability to believe on Jesus with his freewill.

 

[Brightfame52]

Now this poster denies that Esau and Jacob were chosen to father two nations and were chosen so the older would serve the younger, and were not chosen for salvation because they were not chosen through faith. Basically any passage that conflicts with his man-made doctrine does not mean what it says. Such a position is either irrational or dishonest.

Faith has nothing to do with unconditional election to salvation, the elect are chosen for salvation b4 they existed.

 

[Silverhair]

You dont do anything now but talk about men

BF I keep trying to point out the foundation of your errors and you continue to ignore this. Why is that BF?

Are you afraid to investigate the foundations of the religion that you hold?

It is those men that have brought those false ideas into the church.

 

[Salty]

This thread will be closed no sooner than 0030 GMT / 830 pm EDT

 

[Silverhair]

Rom 9 teaches unconditional election. And nothing in Romans contradicts mans inability to believe on Jesus with his freewill.

But when you keep reading you find that salvation is conditional.

Rom 10:6 But the righteousness based on faith speaks as follows: "DO NOT SAY IN YOUR HEART, 'WHO WILL ASCEND INTO HEAVEN?' (that is, to bring Christ down),
Rom 10:7 or 'WHO WILL DESCEND INTO THE ABYSS?' (that is, to bring Christ up from the dead)."
Rom 10:8 But what does it say? "THE WORD IS NEAR YOU, IN YOUR MOUTH AND IN YOUR HEART"—that is, the word of faith which we are preaching,
Rom 10:9 that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved;
Rom 10:10 for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.

It always disheartens me when I see how hard you fight to deny the clear word of God.

Do you really think what you are doing is pleasing to Him.

Was Paul more merciful than Christ Jesus? Was Paul's desire for the lost greater that that of Christ Jesus?
Rom 10:1 Brethren, my heart's desire and my prayer to God for them is for their salvation.

What did Jesus say?
Joh 5:24 "Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

 

[Brightfame52]

BF I keep trying to point out the foundation of your errors and you continue to ignore this. Why is that BF?

Are you afraid to investigate the foundations of the religion that you hold?

It is those men that have brought those false ideas into the church.

More man talk

 

[Brightfame52]

But when you keep reading you find that salvation is conditional.

Rom 10:6 But the righteousness based on faith speaks as follows: "DO NOT SAY IN YOUR HEART, 'WHO WILL ASCEND INTO HEAVEN?' (that is, to bring Christ down),
Rom 10:7 or 'WHO WILL DESCEND INTO THE ABYSS?' (that is, to bring Christ up from the dead)."
Rom 10:8 But what does it say? "THE WORD IS NEAR YOU, IN YOUR MOUTH AND IN YOUR HEART"—that is, the word of faith which we are preaching,
Rom 10:9 that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved;
Rom 10:10 for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.

It always disheartens me when I see how hard you fight to deny the clear word of God.

Do you really think what you are doing is pleasing to Him.

Was Paul more merciful than Christ Jesus? Was Paul's desire for the lost greater that that of Christ Jesus?
Rom 10:1 Brethren, my heart's desire and my prayer to God for them is for their salvation.

What did Jesus say?
Joh 5:24 "Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

Rom 10 was written to believers , not unbelievers. Believing and confessing are evidences of salvation, good works

 

[Silverhair]

More man talk

So you still will not bother to check out the foundations of your false philosophy.

Your denial of the truth is truly saddening.