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No person can come to Christ by their own freewill ! 3

Brightfame52

Well-Known Member
BF, the question is what did Paul say about how we are called and who is eligible for that calling?

It's contrary to RT, and you don't won't to face it.

The Father calls/draws all men to Christ, but there's this thing called God-given free will.

Even the Pharisees knew it was possible for all men to believe in Him.

John 11:48

"If we let him thus alone, all men will believe on him: and the Romans shall come and take away both our place and nation."
If the Father doesn't Draw a person could they come to believe on Christ with their own free wil according to Jn 6:44?
 

Charlie24

Well-Known Member
If the Father doesn't Draw a person could they come to believe on Christ with their own free wil according to Jn 6:44?

Of course not! But the Father does draw all men. As Paul said, "for the Grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men...'

How has salvation appeared to all men, BF, according to the Scripture? What did Paul say about this?
 

cjab

Member
First, man cannot come to Him for life. He stated, “No man can come to Me, except the Father which hath sent Me draw him” (6:44). Again he says, “Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto Me, except it were given unto Him of My Father” (6:65). The ability to come to Christ for eternal life has two aspects: (1) an inner compelling or “drawing” by the Father to the Son, and (2) the gift or “grant” of the Father of the ability to come to Christ. He taught also that those who come to Him have been given to Him by the Father (6:37) RBS 10
I believe you are reading John 6:44 & 6:65 the wrong way. These verses are articulating the judgement of God on unrepentant sinners, in the first instance, and so do not deny the "perfect law that gives freedom" (James 1:25), as given by Moses to them. For the character of the Father is impartiality "They will all be taught by God" Is 54:13 etc.

The idea in John 6:44 & 6:65 is sourced in Isaiah 6:10 "Make the heart of this people fat, and make their ears heavy, and shut their eyes; lest they see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and convert, and be healed."

The preaching of Isaiah was intended as judgement on unrepentant sinners who had used their free will under the law (cf. Deut 30) to abandon (i.e. apostatize from) Moses, resulting in the hardening of their hearts and preventing God giving anything more to them. As Jesus said, "For whoever has, to him more shall be given, and he shall have abundance; but whoever has not, from him even what he has shall be taken away." Matt 13:12. This includes even "free will" that when forfeited through sin prevents the unrepentant coming to Christ.

So even if John 6:44 & 6:65 seem to demonstrate lack of free will, much more so, vis-a-vis the Jews, do they demonstrate the consequences of men culpably exercising their free will given to them under Moses in the wrong direction. With God, mercy and judgement are commonly juxtaposed: Hab 3:2. In John 12:48, etc, Jesus infers that his words would judge every man, which is to say, God was using Christ to apportion his grace - his grace appearing to all and made available to all indiscrimately - as between different categories of sinner: the lost sheep versus satan's sheep - into which categories men place themselves according to how they engage their free will.
 
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