Yeah, well, you just used the wrong word.
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Noah's flood Scripturally...
- Thread starter BenWest
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Yeah, well, you just used the wrong word.
The ark was only so big. And caged animals still hafta eat, & still "bathroom". There wasn't enough room for cages to hold all the animals.
God simply placed them all in estivation, so they didn't hafta eat or bathroom. And He sent young, small specimens.
USE COMMON SENSE !
I regretfully disagree! I read it on the internet
Amen!!!!
This character has made so many totally, completely, idiotic over-the-top claims, that it’s amazing he/she is still around. One blatant example: “I'm just a man, a no body anyone should listen to but I know the secret of unlocking Genesis and ALL of the rest of the Bible.”
This is kinda like I used to watch “HOWDY-DOODY” as a kid, NOT because I liked it, but simply because I knew something so out of left field was coming & I wanted to see what it was.
Same here!!!
Sadly, you are correct their posts on here are like watching the proverbial train wreck. I was determined not to read this thread because I knew that it would make outlandish claims.
Even sadder, I could not restrain myself.
The poster is one bound to stir up srife, they might want to check out the NT on people who do that
Grace and peace
Dr. John Whitcomb, co-author of the book from 1961 called Genesis Flood (also, Henry Morris) did not use the royal cubit to calculate the size of the Ark but still it held so many boxcars of cargo. Answers in Genesis used the royal cubit (20.5 inches I think) and constructed an Ark 510 feet long, 85 feet wide at the top and 51 feet high with three decks. So that is about 1500 feet of walking from the entrance up the decks to the top. The people that I was with took the elevator to the top and walked down because the distance is so great.
From Ken Ham:
Unbelievers often mock the account of Noah’s Flood by saying there is no way Noah could have fit millions of species on the Ark. But the Bible doesn’t say Noah needed to take two of every species. After all, species is a modern word.
Instead, Genesis says Noah took two of every “kind.”
Now researchers have discovered that “kind” is usually equivalent to “family” in our modern classification scheme. And Noah only had to take land-dwelling, air-breathing kinds on the Ark.
Including known extinct kinds, there are only about 1,400 kinds Noah had to take with him. Accounting for two of every kind, and seven pairs of some, he only needed a few thousand animals.
How Many Animals Were on the Ark?
How Could Noah Fit the Animals on the Ark and Care for Them?
Roby, you really should go and see for yourself the size of the Ark, how many animals zoologists think would have to be on it, how they were fed, the mechanism built in for the distribution of water to the animals and the removal of waste. Contrary to what some have posted here, the costs are about half of your average theme park. Food is made from scratch in a restaurant that seats about 1200 people and an all you can eat lunch was about $12 for senior citizens a couple of years ago. It is a ministry so there are many people who can answer your questions in detail or find someone who can. There are many highly educated scientists on staff. Many people are employed there as there are several food venues, there is a zoo, there are little shops, there is a bookstore, there is ice skating this time of year on artificial glice skating rink, the largest in the USA. There are gardens, very clean restrooms, zip lines, a playground for children of all abilities, camel rides, power wheel chairs, and the list goes on. There is an auditorium that seats 2,500 people that is new and has concerts and movies, some of which are free. There are priceless Bibles from the time of the invention of the printing press. There is security, buses from the parking lot to the entrance of the Ark, and there is medical help. It is in rural Kentucky and Kentuckians are very friendly and kind people. They can answer your questions better than I can because I was only there for a few hours with a senior tour and have not been able to get back in the last 2 years even though Indianapolis and Cincinnati are quite close in all respects and so is Louisville as the three cities form a perfect triangle with all of the cities about the same distance apart from each other.
Still banking on "kind" ? Still forgetting that the current meaning of "species" is a fairly-recent development, that it wasn't used in ancient times for that meaning? The KJV shows that "kind" also meant "species", among other meanings. Remember, it says that each animal reproduced "after its own KIND". Thus, when 2 Chihuahuas breed, they produce more chis, not beagles or yorkies. When people of the same race breed, they produce children of the same race.
While most breeds of dogs will mate if they have the chance, a Great Dane can't breed a chi, etc. Each breed is unique, and of greatly-varying size. Obviously, Noah didn't just take "a pair of dogs" on the ark!
Again, USE COMMON SENSE ! That many different kinds of animals together would be very unruly, with some trying to eat other kinds. For example, African elephants hate big cats, & would become very-violent if any were in proximity. Would Noah really wanna be in a confined space with angry elephants?
And three arks couldn't hold enough food for all the animals, for as long as the flood lasted, simple as THAT
Likely explanation is that when God brought them, He brought young animals that He'd placed in estivation. And GOD brought them; no doubt about it. Again, use COMMON SENSE: even in 120 years, Noah & his family could NOT have captured specimens of EVERY animal on earth & brought them to the ark. And they woulda had to have been cared for while Noah was out catching others. Again, likely explanation is that GOD brought them all to the ark. (Noah & his family could not have lifted large animals.)
And, of course, there are a bazillion animal species that can't breed with other species, not just a few thousand.
You should stop believing Sensationalists like Ham & use COMMON SENSE !
The reason many people don't believe the ark story is because some Christians make the story into nonsense insteada THINKING & using PRACTICALITY & COMMON SENSE. Now, we know we cannot keep such a collection of critters such as was on the ark together & care for them all & keep them from fighting or preying on each other. (or US!)
A little thinking & using common sense, as well as close Scripture-reading, has worked out a probable scenario for the ark story. First, when the ark was ready, GOD brought the animals to it, having placed them in estivation, bringing young, smaller animals. And he brought at least one pair of EVERY SPECIES.Thus, the animals didn't fight, hafta be fed, nor bathroom. And again, three arks wouldn'ta held enough food for all of them, for the duration of the flood. Then, there are the unique diets of manty animals. For example, most hummingbirds drink only nectar, eating no solids. And koalas eat only eucalyptus leaves.
And GOD removed mosta the animals & placed them where He intended for them to be, & then awakened them. For instance, there were no kangaroos near Ararat. (He had aroused some of the birds earlier.)
Scripture only briefly tells the story, so we must fill in the blanx, & use COMMON SENSE in the process. Now, some, like Ham, will say,"You weren't there, so howdya YOU know?" Well, HE wasn't there, either, so how does HE know ?
And it's known from fossils & remains that over 99% of all animal species that ever lived are extinct. But Scripture sez there was some of EVERY species of land animal on the ark. That means that many species were already extinct by then. The "young earth" theory is not correct.
And Ham says "researchers" have "proven" that "kinds" meant "families". But he doesn't NAME those "researchers"; most likely they were guesswork kings as HE is.
Again, let's look at the events of the flood and the age of the earth with COMMON SENSE & REALITY!
A little thinking & using common sense, as well as close Scripture-reading, has worked out a probable scenario for the ark story. First, when the ark was ready, GOD brought the animals to it, having placed them in estivation, bringing young, smaller animals. And he brought at least one pair of EVERY SPECIES.Thus, the animals didn't fight, hafta be fed, nor bathroom. And again, three arks wouldn'ta held enough food for all of them, for the duration of the flood. Then, there are the unique diets of manty animals. For example, most hummingbirds drink only nectar, eating no solids. And koalas eat only eucalyptus leaves.
And GOD removed mosta the animals & placed them where He intended for them to be, & then awakened them. For instance, there were no kangaroos near Ararat. (He had aroused some of the birds earlier.)
Scripture only briefly tells the story, so we must fill in the blanx, & use COMMON SENSE in the process. Now, some, like Ham, will say,"You weren't there, so howdya YOU know?" Well, HE wasn't there, either, so how does HE know ?
And it's known from fossils & remains that over 99% of all animal species that ever lived are extinct. But Scripture sez there was some of EVERY species of land animal on the ark. That means that many species were already extinct by then. The "young earth" theory is not correct.
And Ham says "researchers" have "proven" that "kinds" meant "families". But he doesn't NAME those "researchers"; most likely they were guesswork kings as HE is.
Again, let's look at the events of the flood and the age of the earth with COMMON SENSE & REALITY!
You know that you don't know anything about genetics so why do you continue to post such foolishness? As to the size of the Ark, it resembles an ocean liner.
AiG has spent a couple hundred million dollars on the Ark Encounter & the Creation Museum. Since Whitcomb & Morris published in 1961, it has been 60 years of the scientific investigation onto Biblical Creation. Whitcomb fought in the Battle of the Bulge and then graduated from Yale. He is still alive here in Indianapolis. Do you really think that you can debate him?
What Are “Kinds” in Genesis?
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Your opinion is really boring because there is no scientific evidence to back it up. Why don't you drive to Williamstown and cough up the price of admission and examine the scientific evidence and then refute it?
What you are doing over & over is attributing things to AiG that they do not say. They are a small think tank and they do have a lot of PhDs on staff so they can explain what exactly they are saying in detail. You seem to think that the Greens, the Whitcombs, the Hams, AiG, ICR, CMI, and others such as John Baumgardner who worked many years at Los Alamos have no scientific background or research so you side with the atheists and Darwinists and Deep Timers. All you give is your personal opinion.
On the point about kinds, what you read was a summary of Biblical Creation thinking. If you want detail, try ICR or even search AiG for detail. I linked detail about food, water, and waste, but you ignored it. Also, note that most animals are small, especially as juveniles. The Ark was huge and could easily cage a few thousand animals. I can't find the number of people Kentucky allows in the building, but I think it is 7 thousand. It is almost 2 football fields long & has 3 decks and is 85 feet wide. It is 51 feet high or several stories high. Whitcomb said in a video that it was something like 400 boxcars in cubic feet--I don't recall exactly.
BenWest
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Amen. The present Earth was made on the 5th Day, some 4.53 Billion years ago, in man's time. This was more than 9 Billion years from the Big Bang. Noah's Ark was released from Adam's firmament some 11,000 ;years ago, in man's time, arriving in Lake Van, Turkey bringing the first descendants of Adam (Humans) to the present world of the sons of God. (descendants of Apes)
Pure Darwinism.
You're still using fantasy insteada reality & common sense. How mant KINDS of dogs are there? There are 344 recognized breeds. Now while I realize many breeds have been developed in fairly-recent times, & all are of the family canis lupus familiaris, there are such vast differences in many breeds that they could not have come from a common ancestor.
And elephants? How many KINDS are there? Two very-different kinds, African & Indian. They are too-different to have had a common ancestor., same as breeds of horses, rhinos, crocodiles, snakes, & many other familiar animals.
Your guru Ham could shut us up by capturing a pair of every known land animal, insect, & bird, placing them all in his ark, & feeding them all & removing their bilge for 7 months.
Horse Feathers.
Yes, the PLANET was made long ago, but God has re-arranged the surface a number of times, with the last one being several thousand years ago. And He did so by some sorta disaster, as many animals better-suited to survival than their modern counterparts are now extinct. That includes the well-known woolly mammoth, which could live in a several different climates, unlike modern elephants, & had much-harder teeth that didn't wear out too quickly so it couldn't chew, the leading cause of natural elephant death.
And once again, Adam lived on THIS world. Your "Adam's world" nonsense has destroyed your credibility.
There's nothing to refute that COMMON SENSE didn't make stillborn before it was hatched. We have observed animal behavior for millenia. We know what mose t of them eat, & how much. We know what they need to survive. We pretty well know their behavior toward us & other animals. We know God made specific animals for specific environments, & these animals can't survive in any other one. And many would die if placed awake & as adults in an ark the size of Noah's.
So, please stop trying to remove the miraculous aspects of Noah's "voyage".
Yikes. What do you think that animals ate in the Garden of Eden? We know that man did not eat meat until after the flood--what about animals? We have already noted that the animals were not adults because adults would not have had a long reproductive life after the flood. Geologist John Woodmorappe said, "Studies of non-mechanized animal care indicate that eight people could have fed and watered 16,000 creatures." So it was only for a short time and there were cages and water could have been distributed through wooden pipes to troughs. Waste could have gone to the bottom and then have been removed with pullies. When I was in Williamstown, that was the system that they had in place as an illustration but there was so many bays of exhibits that I did not study that point.
Ken Ham has said that if there were 10,000 animals on the Ark, that still would have only taken up half the space, so there was plenty of room on the Ark and lots of storage space.
Here is some more info on the size of the Ark:
- The Ark was twice as long as an early Boeing 747-100B airliner.
- It would take nearly one and a half football fields to equal the Ark’s length.
- Sixty-two Smart Cars parked bumper to bumper would stretch from the Ark’s bow to stern.
- NASA could lay three space shuttles—nose to tail—upon the Ark’s deck.
- To float the Ark in an Olympic size swimming pool, you’d need to line up three of these large pools.
- The Ark would be well over one and a half times the length of a WWII Gato class submarine, or looked at another way, nearly half the length of a modern Nimitz class aircraft carrier!
- Noah’s Ark was a bit longer than twelve, forty-foot telephone poles laid end to end.
- Using the standard boxcar, it would require lining up ten of them to equal the Ark’s length.
Oh, Noah would only need two kinds of dogs for all of the dogs. And yes, genetically, all species can emerge from one kind. Horses and zebras have a common ancestor, and I think that they can still breed with each other. Your genetics is faulty. Another prime example is all of the different amounts of melanin humans have in their skin, not to mention all of the other variations in humans and yet we know that this all happened in the last 4300 years from only eight people, only the three sons and their wives having children after the flood, so really only from six people and really only from Noah and his wife. So you see, we are everyone descended from Noah.
Yikes. What do you think that animals ate in the Garden of Eden? We know that man did not eat meat until after the flood--what about animals? We have already noted that the animals were not adults because adults would not have had a long reproductive life after the flood. Geologist John Woodmorappe said, "Studies of non-mechanized animal care indicate that eight people could have fed and watered 16,000 creatures." So it was only for a short time and there were cages and water could have been distributed through wooden pipes to troughs. Waste could have gone to the bottom and then have been removed with pullies. When I was in Williamstown, that was the system that they had in place as an illustration but there was so many bays of exhibits that I did not study that point.
Ken Ham has said that if there were 10,000 animals on the Ark, that still would have only taken up half the space, so there was plenty of room on the Ark and lots of storage space.
Here is some more info on the size of the Ark:
Putting the Ark into Perspective
- The Ark was twice as long as an early Boeing 747-100B airliner.
- It would take nearly one and a half football fields to equal the Ark’s length.
- Sixty-two Smart Cars parked bumper to bumper would stretch from the Ark’s bow to stern.
- NASA could lay three space shuttles—nose to tail—upon the Ark’s deck.
- To float the Ark in an Olympic size swimming pool, you’d need to line up three of these large pools.
- The Ark would be well over one and a half times the length of a WWII Gato class submarine, or looked at another way, nearly half the length of a modern Nimitz class aircraft carrier!
- Noah’s Ark was a bit longer than twelve, forty-foot telephone poles laid end to end.
- Using the standard boxcar, it would require lining up ten of them to equal the Ark’s length.
You just can't face reality. The animals in Eden ate what their descendants eat now. And God made more than 2 kinds of dogs, placing them in diverse environments, from the Mexican deserts to the Arctic. A Chi can't live in the Arctic on its own; a Husky can't live on its own in a desert. two of the oldest-known dog breeds are Pharaoh's hounds & Japanese Akitas, & they're not a bit alike, except they're both dogs.
There were hundreds of thousands of critters on the ark, almost all juveniles,most in estivation, put there by GOD. The only food on board was people food, which ravens could eat, once awakened from their estivation state.(They weren't juvies; they were old enough to fly.)
You forgot all about Noah's daughters-in-laws They coulda been any race.
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