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Non-lordshippers
- Thread starter Luke2427
- Start date
convicted1
Guest
:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbs::thumbs:
Be prepared for the "question begging" and "logical fallacies" to be flying in 10, 9, 8........
That's not the confession. The confession is "the Lord Jesus." It is a confession of an eternal truth, for there is never a time on one's life that Jesus is not his Lord.
It's just as John's confession, "Behold the Lamb of God."
I hope you're making sure all those who come to Christ under your tutelage (and I have to be honest, if your posts here are any indication, it's an event hard to imagine) that they're using just the right words.
It's just as John's confession, "Behold the Lamb of God."
I hope you're making sure all those who come to Christ under your tutelage (and I have to be honest, if your posts here are any indication, it's an event hard to imagine) that they're using just the right words.
Yall keep saying that and it, in fact, does nothing to speak to whether or not we should confess Him as Lord.
OK, so what?
Just the right words? No, just the right understaning of who God is and the salvation He provides? You bet.
Faith without works is dead, but....
What does "dead" mean? Does dead ever mean fake, spurious, non-existent, not real, etc?
When James asked his famous rhetorical question, what did he mean by "saved" ??
Saved from what? Are there any clues?
Confessing with the mouth. Very interesting that only 3 verses later, Paul says "Call on" instead of confessing with the mouth. But for both, he says it brings "salvation"
First, saved from what?
Second, is this confession a one-time deal, or a continual confession, or something different?
That's not what lordship salvation is about. It's about being saved by obedience.
Confessing one is as effectual as confessing the other.
Well, here we go. Just wondering how well newborn infants know their parents.
No its not. That is a misrepresentation.
Ok?
Not a legitimate comparison. If I can share the gospel and communicate that Jesus dies on the cross I can also communicate that we must be willing to obey and make God a priority. In fact I just did that Sunday and a 17 year old teen gave their heart to Christ.
Does God reqwuire us toobey and submit ourselves fully to Him before getting saved by him then?
Well, let's see. If obedience isn't required, then it's a certain knowledge. Not all men have the same knowledge. The sins of those who can only bring the tenth part of an ephah of fine flour are atoned for as well as those who are able to bring a lamb.
It is a Person that saves, not a doctrine, and when that Person is called upon, by whatever name by which He is revealed, that Person saves him.
See above.
Absolutely is. Carnal cognition is no substitute for ears to hear.
That's actually what the OP was :thumbsup:
The Archangel
Well-Known Member
Not knowing whether I've jumped into a long-standing feud, I have to say that the above statement--as stated here--is incorrect.
Lordship salvation does deal with "obedience," and it deals with it rightly from a biblical standpoint. However, the statement posted here isn't right because no one is saved "by obedience."
A better statement of the obedience that Lordship proponents talk about is this: Lordship is about obedience because one has [already] been saved. And, if the obedience isn't there, if we see nothing but rebellion against God and the Bible, then there is sufficient evidence to suggest that salvation never occurred in the first place.
The Archangel
Aaron, there are no right words to use. Any outward expression of saving faith is just that; an outward expression of an internal reality. The person who repents of their sins and trusts in Christ will display evidence of true conversion (2 Cor. 5:17; Eph. 2:10). That is their true confession.
If you simply take the term literally: salvation by submitting to Christ as Lord, then perhaps you are right. But that is not what LS means.
Please do a search on Paul Washer + Lordship Salvation and you will find out what the term means, and what is taught as Lordship salvation.
It does turn out to be salvation by works or by obedience.
One of Washer's favorite invitations is "Repent of your sins and believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you shall be saved."
But how does a person repent of his sins? No one can remember all his sins much less repent of them. No such command is given in the NT.
That is gospel of works.
Taking up one's cross is only possible after regeneration. It is made possible by a work of grace having already taken place in the life of the individual.
John MacArthur, arguably the most prolific proponent of Lordship Salvation in the 20th and early 21st centuries says this about Lordship Salvation:
"Repentance is a turning from sin (Acts 3:19; Luke 24:47) that consists not of a human work but of a divinely bestowed grace (Acts 11:18; 2 Tim. 2:25). It is a change of heart, but genuine repentance will effect a change of behavior as well (Luke 3:8; Acts 26:18-20)."
Taking the mantle of a true disciple (i.e taking up one's cross) is not a human work. It is a work of grace given by God. The proof that the work of grace is present in the individual is actually taking the mantle of a true disciple.
Lordship Salvation was not known before the mid-20th century. It is a new doctrine. You won't find that term in older commentaries.
First, note that one who is not a Calvinist is not bound to accept a Calvinistic definition of "repentance." I don't agree with it.
You still have sanctification and salvation confused.
Here is a better definition of regeneration:
“God regenerates (John 1:13) according to His will (James 1:18) through the sovereign work of the Holy Spirit (John 3:5) when a person believes (John 1:12) the gospel as revealed in the Word of God (1 Peter 1:23).”
― Charles C. Ryrie, The Holy Spirit
Note that regeneration takes place at the same time as salvation. One is not regenerated before salvation. The requirement for salvation is not repentance (works) but rather faith (sola fide).
No such thing as a Calvinistic version of repentance. As a non cal I can tell you that many, many people all over this country have the same version of repentance. In fact your version is not all that common.
To be specific there are many unbiblical definitions of repentance.
Paul Washer uses one. MacArther implies another.
When Washer states that in order to be saved you must repent of your sins, he shows his lack of understanding of repentance. No one can repent of their sins. No one can remember all their sins, much less repent of them all. The Bible does not demand that an unsaved person repent of his sins.
I agree that taking up your cross is post regeneration and entails discipleship not justification, but LS confuses the two.
“Anyone who wants to come after Jesus into the Kingdom of God, anyone who wants to be a Christian, has to face three commands: 1) deny himself, 2) take up his cross daily, and 3) follow him.” (Hard to Believe, p. 6.)