Not attending all services

[Paul33]

Larry,

You are so full of hot air.

You misstated my position when you said that I only give God Sunday morning.

What in the world does that mean or imply? The implication was that the rest of the week was mine to do as I please and apparently ignore God.

Your whole arguement has been that my desire to worship on Sunday until 11 a.m. sounded bad. Why?

What goes on in that mind of yours?

I'm just wondering, does your wife ever slap you silly?

 

[Paul33]

Larry,

Why do you misstate people's positions, and then when challenged, project your problems and propensities back onto others?

 

[Pastor Larry]

Paul,

This conversation, according to the title of the thread, is about attending services at the church. It is not about what you do with the rest of your life. Therefore, when I said you give God Sunday morning till 11:30 and one night a week, I said exactly what you said in the context of this conversation. You do not give God Sunday night in the context of the body of Christ. I can't see how that is confusing. I certainly did not intend for this to be misunderstood. There was absolutely no implication about what you do with the rest of the week, unless you were not paying attention to the context of the conversation.

I did not misstate your position, and I did not project anything back on you. I merely said what you said, made an observation about it, within the context of this conversation. If the conversation was about what you do with the rest of your week, then your objections will be valid. By failing to talk about this topic, you misunderstood what I said, and turned it personal against me. That was disappointing. I wish you would not do that.

As for your position sounding bad, I think I already talked about that. It sounds bad because it sounds like you are limiting what you will allow God to do in your life through the corporate body of Christ. What if God chooses to work until noon? What if God chooses to work on a Sunday night? What if he chooses to work on two nights during the week?

This all comes down to the questions I asked you originally, which you ignored. I then asked them again, in my last post, and you ignored them again. If you would answer the questions, or give a perspective, you would not have needed to make this personal.

Here they are again and I am hoping you will actually talk about the issues rather than me.

By what criteria do we judge when we have fellowshipped enough with God's people, worshipped enough in Christ's body, and learned enough from the corporate teaching of God's word?

(Mind you, I am not being judgmental of you or anyone else. My point is to probe your reasoning for such a statement, and the reasoning of anyone else who cares to contribute.)

How does one decide when they have attended church enough for a given week?

 

[Pastor Larry]

Why do we assume that fellowship with Christians only takes place inside the walls of the church?

I don't think we do. First, I think there is a definite command for the gathering of the body of Christ as formally united, whether in four walls, or small groups. The kind of fellowship you are talking about sets apart the modern church from the NT church. It isn't wrong, but it doesn't take the place of the NT church and fellowship within it.

 

[av1611jim]

For all concerned;
I really don't care what you choose to do. This is what my house had to deal with.
How many hours are spent in front of the TV?
How many hours are spent fishing?
How many hours are spent at secular work?
How many hours are spent gardening?
How many hours are spent at kids' ball games?
How many hours are spent on the internet?
How many hours are spent at various (non church) meetings?
Finally; How many hours are spent in church with the body of believers?

For other families, perhaps this list could be expanded but you get the drift, I suppose.

From the answers to these questions, we made our decisions. What, where, and WHO is our priority?

In HIS service;
Jim

 

[TexasSky]

Jim,

Interesting question.
I've been in some amazing churches where the priority, no matter what, was Christ. I tend to spend a lot of time at those churches too.

However - I've also seen churches lose their focus. They start worrying more about "high attendance," and "putting on a great Easter production," and such things. They have tons of activities going on all the time, but the activities may be more like club meetings than Christian fellowship. Some of the worst-case scenarios I have seen first hand:

I was at a large church, working in Children's Music Ministry, and this hit me full in the face. It began with a meeting about an upcoming social for choir children. A proposal to have the kids in t-shirts. M recommended a $15 variety. K said, "That can be pretty expensive. (Person's name) has five kids that fall into the children's choir ranges. $75.00 is a lot of money." M responded, "Well - it isn't our fault they don't practice birth control! Why should we look like trash just because they can't control their sexual urges." (From a children's director.)

I was a bit flaggergasted, but it got worse.

As the Christmas pagent got closer, the main children's director's nerves got frayed. At one point she was screaming at the kids, putting some of them in tears. I tapped her on the shoulder and said, "I know this is frustrating, but remember we need to show these kids the love of Christ." She screamed, "I don't love these brats!"

Needless to say, the Senior Pastor and Music Minister gave her an extended leave of absence soon after.

 

[Paul33]

Larry,

Perhaps you could share your answers to these questions you have posed. We were talking about service times, and you think that I wouldn't stay in church past 11:30 a.m. if God were working? The same question you posed to me needs to be posed to you. You worship on Sunday at 6:00 p.m. Using your logic, I will now ask you what you asked me. That sounds bad, Larry. You don't want to give God Sunday morning? What if God were working on Saturday night or Tuesday night or Sunday afternoon? It seems like you are limiting God's work in your life.

Sounds rediculous, doesn't it, Larry?

You go first Larry. Answer your questions:

By what criteria do we judge when we have fellowshipped enough with God's people, worshipped enough in Christ's body, and learned enough from the corporate teaching of God's word?

(Mind you, I am not being judgmental of you or anyone else. My point is to probe your reasoning for such a statement, and the reasoning of anyone else who cares to contribute.)

How does one decide when they have attended church enough for a given week?

 

[Pastor Larry]

You don't want to give God Sunday morning? What if God were working on Saturday night or Tuesday night or Sunday afternoon?

We give God Sunday mornings for the corporate meeting of the body, along with her visitors. Sunday mornings here are largely an outreach service for the unconvinced and the uncommitted. God has been working during that time in a great way with some people. It is applicable to all, but the preaching is directed at the "lower end" of spiritual maturity. On Sunday morning, I assume little or no spiritual knowledge and background. Sunday night is a worship service for believers. Wednesday nights is a small group type Bible study on a doctrinal or practical matter, usually topical in nature. (Sunday AM and PM are expository.) At times we spend the whole midweek time in corporate prayer. As for the other times, we don't meet at those times currently, though we have some home Bible studies that go on during those times on a monthly basis. I would love to have some more home small groups going on during those times. I would love to make that change, but it takes time. What we are doing here is largely a work in progress, trying to become more effective in doing the things that the body of Christ is supposed to be doing.

So no, it doesn't sound ridiculous at all. My point is that God works through the body and when the body is gathered, it seems to me that the believer should be there. I find it hard to conceive of choosing a church on the basis that it doesn't ask very much ... That just seems odd to me.

As for answering the questions, I quite honestly don't have answers. That is why I haven't volunteered any. I really don't know. As I said, my point was to probe your reasoning, or the reasoning of anyone else. That, strangely enough, was why I asked them.

 

[gb93433]

Originally posted by av1611jim:
For all concerned;
I really don't care what you choose to do. This is what my house had to deal with.
How many hours are spent in front of the TV?
How many hours are spent fishing?
How many hours are spent at secular work?
How many hours are spent gardening?
How many hours are spent at kids' ball games?
How many hours are spent on the internet?
How many hours are spent at various (non church) meetings?
Finally; How many hours are spent in church with the body of believers?

For other families, perhaps this list could be expanded but you get the drift, I suppose.

From the answers to these questions, we made our decisions. What, where, and WHO is our priority?

In HIS service;
Jim

The biblical view of those is not the same as the Greek philosophical view that most in the American culture have lived under and been taught. The biblical view is that God is a part of everything we do. He is there whether we like it or not. The Greek view is that everyththing is compartmentalized. The answer to every one of those things should be the same. Everything is done to the glory of God. When I was a kid I spent about six hours a day just in the milk barn and the rest of the day studying and at school. Not much time for anything else. During the summer it was 8 hours in the milk barn and the rest of the day on other things such as farm work. Weekends were spent milking for eight hours, scraping manure and studying. We didn't have time for anyone of the things you wrote down. What to do was never a problem.

If you don't milk those cows you won't have a pay check because they cows will get sick soon with mastitis.

 

[Paul33]

Larry said:

"I find it hard to conceive of choosing a church on the basis that it doesn't ask very much ... That just seems odd to me."

----------------------------------------------

You make this statement on the basis of my desire to seek out a church that does ministry the way I believe. The implication is that I or others who do this aren't putting a high priority on church, or meeting together with the saints, or seeking a church that doesn't ask very much, etc.

It's beyond me how you can continue to think like this. You have now admitted that you have church services on Sunday morning, Sunday night and Wednesday night. That is the framework from which you appear to evaluate what others say.

 

[Pastor Larry]

Paul,

The question is not whether you seek out a ministry on hte basis of what you believe. The question is whether or not your beliefs are correct. The same is true with me.

However, I have directly answered the issue of framework for evaluation several times already. I have been very clear about how we do things here, and I have said that there are some things I would like to change. That is not new information you just got. I have also said that not everyone has to do it the way we do, and that I am not judging people or ministries that do it differently. If you don't want me to think that way, then how should I think?

Finally, I can't help but notice yet again that you haven't offered an answer to the questions. Do you have no opinion?

 

[Paul33]

And I have answered repeatedly that all of my time belongs to God and I would prefer to worship on Sunday morning for an extended period of time and during the week for another extended period of time.

If you don't have an answer to your own questions, then neither do I.

 

[av1611jim]

GB;
Since you missed my point totally, I will remain quiet.
C ya'.

In HIS service;
Jim