Not Everyone

[Silverhair]

He is found by multitudes in the pages of Holy Scripture, he is available to everyone believing.

Believing a doctrine that has it's basis in pagan philosophy brought into the church by Augustine.

No thanks, I will just believe the word of God as found in His Holy Word.

 

[Silverhair]

Notwithstanding God's predestination is most certain and unalterable, so that no elect person can perish nor any reprobate be saved, yet it does not follow from thence that all precepts, reproofs and exhortations on the part of God, or prayers on the part of man, are useless, vain and insignificant.

Now there is a grand piece is failed logic.

If everything is set in stone then all the reproofs and exhortations on the part of God, or prayers on the part of man, are useless, vain and insignificant as nothing will change.

Your man Zanchius does not do to well when thinking things through to the logic end does he. Perhaps it is time you started getting your views from a better source.

 

[Zaatar71]

It just takes one verse to show that view is wrong.

1Ti 2:3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior,
1Ti 2:4 who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.

It would seem that Zanchius did not have that verse in his bible or more likely he just ignored it. But in either case his view is worthless and not biblical.

Sorry SH, It seems as if you did not read his accurate quote correctly. Slow down, take a moment and read what he actually said, not what your mind is trying to twist it into.

 

[Zaatar71]

Believing a doctrine that has it's basis in pagan philosophy brought into the church by Augustine.

No thanks, I will just believe the word of God as found in His Holy Word.

This is a deflection , having nothing to do with scripture once again

 

[Zaatar71]

Now there is a grand piece is failed logic.

If everything is set in stone then all the reproofs and exhortations on the part of God, or prayers on the part of man, are useless, vain and insignificant as nothing will change.

Your man Zanchius does not do to well when thinking things through to the logic end does he. Perhaps it is time you started getting your views from a better source.

Sorry you still do not understand what he is saying. Try again tomorrow after you get a good nights sleep!

 

[Silverhair]

The Spirit gives a new heart, enabling a person to repent and believe

Actually the Holy Spirit gives a new heart in response to the person repenting and believing.

 

[Silverhair]

Sorry SH, It seems as if you did not read his accurate quote correctly. Slow down, take a moment and read what he actually said, not what your mind is trying to twist it into.

Is this not what the quote says?
"Therefore, say we, God never designed to save every individual, since, if He had, every individual would and must be saved, for "His counsel shall stand, and He will do all His pleasure."

This is what the bible says
1Ti 2:3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior,
1Ti 2:4 who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.

Sure looks like Zanchius missed the boat on that one.

He is reading his religion into the text rather than getting it from the text.

 

[Silverhair]

This is a deflection , having nothing to do with scripture once again

The view you are presenting via Zanchius's words do not have anything to do with the word of God but do reflect the views that Augustine brought into the church from his pagan teachings.

 

[Silverhair]

Sorry you still do not understand what he is saying. Try again tomorrow after you get a good nights sleep!

Not hard to understand once you take off the distorted glasses you seem to have.

Notwithstanding God's predestination is most certain and unalterable, so that no elect person can perish nor any reprobate be saved, yet it does not follow from thence that all precepts, reproofs and exhortations on the part of God, or prayers on the part of man, are useless, vain and insignificant.

It is obvious that Zanchius got his view from the WCF or LBCF as they attempt to use the same failed logic. God determines all things but then He does not determine all things.

Care to explain how precepts, reproofs and exhortations on the part of God, or prayers on the part of man can alter something that is certain and unalterable.

It should be about now that you tell me I do not understand Calvinism or some other such silliness.

It would seem it is you that needs the sleep so you can have a clear head as you do not appear to understand what Zanchius is saying.

If you want to believe the errant word of a man, no matter how well intended, over the word of God then do so but I will trust the word of God.

 

[Charlie24]

Yes, we sure did choose our own way, just as Paul told the believers at Rome under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit:

" And even as they did not like to retain God in [their] knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
29 being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
30 backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
31 without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:
32 who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them." ( Romans 1:28-32 )

His word says that He does ( Daniel 4:35 ).

Adam made that choice, and it only went downhill from there.
What's more, we would have done the same thing in his place.

Please read Romans 1, Romans 2 and Romans 3 again, Charlie. We really have put ourselves in a no-win situation, as a race...
We took that free choice to obey Him or to choose our own way, and look what it got us;
This is a miserable world, Charlie, and it's all our fault.

I'm also very glad that I have a new one to go to and it's all His doing... because He was not willing that any of the beloved perish, but that they all come to repentance. ( 2 Peter 3:8-9 )

We agree on so much here, except that God always gets His way with man.

You know that it's not God's will that man rejects His Son. You won't admit it here but in your heart you know the truth.

God allows man to do the things He has revealed to us is wrong, even to the point of rejecting of His Son.

Man chooses his own way in this miserable life, and yes, it is all our own fault.

Man does not control God's salvation, he controls his own destiny by a God-given choice.

 

[Craigbythesea]

Therefore, say we, God never designed to save every individual, since, if He had, every individual would and must be saved, for "His counsel shall stand, and He will do all His pleasure."

It is extremely unfortunate to find such tripe as this on a Christian message board!

The “quote” Is NOT a quote from the Bible! Rather it is sloppy paste job from ancient Hebrew poetry and a doxology.

Psalms 115:3. Our God is in the heavens;
he does whatever he pleases. (NRSV)

Isaiah 46:10. declaring the end from the beginning
and from ancient times things not yet done,
saying, “My purpose shall stand,
and I will fulfill my intention,” (NRSV)

Ephesians 1:11. In Christ we have also obtained an inheritance, having been destined according to the purpose of him who accomplishes all things according to his counsel and will, (NRSV)

Ancient Hebrew poetry does NOT express objective information—it expresses feelings and emotions. Doxologies from the New Testament do NOT express objective information any more than do eulogies at a funeral. However, ancient Hebrew prose when found in the genre of literature known as the historical narrative does express objective information;

1. The word of the Lord came to Jonah a second time, saying,
2. “Get up, go to Nineveh, that great city, and proclaim to it the message that I tell you.”
3. So Jonah set out and went to Nineveh, according to the word of the Lord. Now Nineveh was an exceedingly large city, a three days' walk across.
4. Jonah began to go into the city, going a day's walk. And he cried out, "Forty days more, and Nineveh shall be overthrown!"
5. And the people of Nineveh believed God; they proclaimed a fast, and everyone, great and small, put on sackcloth.
6. When the news reached the king of Nineveh, he rose from his throne, removed his robe, covered himself with sackcloth, and sat in ashes.
7. Then he had a proclamation made in Nineveh: "By the decree of the king and his nobles: No human being or animal, no herd or flock, shall taste anything. They shall not feed, nor shall they drink water.
8. Human beings and animals shall be covered with sackcloth, and they shall cry mightily to God. All shall turn from their evil ways and from the violence that is in their hands.
9. Who knows? God may relent and change his mind; he may turn from his fierce anger, so that we do not perish."
10. When God saw what they did, how they turned from their evil ways, God changed his mind about the calamity that he had said he would bring upon them; and he did not do it. (NRSV)