yes, one name, one Throne, each separate role
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Not only is Jesus God but God is Jesus
- Thread starter loDebar
- Start date
Acts2.21
Member
So you are anti-trinitarian? and believe in a uni-personal God? this is rank heresy!
only Jesus but verified as God
Acts2.21
Member
Jesus Christ is the God-Man, 100% God and 100% Man. God Incarnate, God manifested in the flesh. It was ONLY Jesus Christ, Who is known as the Second Person in the Holy Trinity, Who was on the cross. Not either the Father or Holy Spirit
Nope one GOD shown to us as three persons but verified Jesus as GOD shown in the OP
Yes, As God, He yielded His Spirit from the physical As God He paid for SIN shown by the separation from GOD
We call Him Second. HE was not in a secondary place. I never said Only Jesus. The OP says GOD on the cross. Jesus is GOD . Other personalities we know of GOD were not on the cross.
Questions
So the Spirit of God is not the First Person's Spirit?
And the Spirit of Christ is not the Second Person's Spirit?
Answer
I think the response indicates each Person of the Trinity does not have an individual Spirit. And I think that claim is wrong. This requires an answer to the verses that say "one Spirit."
So the Spirit of God is not the First Person's Spirit?
And the Spirit of Christ is not the Second Person's Spirit?
Answer
I think the response indicates each Person of the Trinity does not have an individual Spirit. And I think that claim is wrong. This requires an answer to the verses that say "one Spirit."
Acts2.21
Member
"one GOD shown to us as three persons" is exactly what modalism teaches!
I think each Person of the Trinity exists in their own Spirit, thus three Spirits which share common attributes.
There is the Eternal Sonship of God the Son!
Jesus is as much God, made up of the same "stuff" that makes one Gpod, as much as the Father and Holy Spirit!
Hi Acts 2:21, I believe the Holy Trinity is comprised of three Persons, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. Now each Person in their eternal form is Spirit, not physical, not flesh and bones. For sake of discussion, lets call them entities. Each has (1) intellect, (2) emotion, and (3) will, thus the requirements of "personhood." Now each of these "entities" can manifest themselves to humans such as the burning bush, or "like a dove."
When Jesus died on the cross, He commended His spirit to God. Thus a separate spirit from the Spirit of God or the Holy Spirit. I am willing to listen and learn if I have gone down the wrong track.
When Jesus died on the cross, He commended His spirit to God. Thus a separate spirit from the Spirit of God or the Holy Spirit. I am willing to listen and learn if I have gone down the wrong track.
GoodTidings
Well-Known Member
Yes. That is not in dispute. All I am saying is that it is unbiblical to say, "God is Jesus." The Oneness holiness groups claim that God is Jesus; they deny the Trinity, and that is heresy in the formal theological use of the word.
Acts2.21
Member
In the first place, there was the Angel of the Lord (Yahweh) Who was present in the burning bush, Who spoke to Moses from it. The actual "bush" was not in any way "the Lord". Likewise, the dove at Jesus' Baptism only "symbolized" the Holy Spirit, Who is invisible, and was therefore the "visibility" of the Holy Spirit. The "dove" itself was not the Holy Spirit.
In the Old Testament, prior to His Incarnation, the Lord Jesus Christ appeared in some "bodily form", as the Angel of the Lord. He spoke with people, ate with them, wrestled with one, etc, etc.
Jesus Christ at His death on the cross, "commended" His human spirit, which was His human "life" (breath) to the Father. This has nothing to do with the Holy Spirit, Who Himself is also eternally Almighty God, and a separate Person to the Father and Jesus Christ.
You are right that each member of the Holy Trinity is "Personal", but not in the same sense as we use the word, as the Father and Holy Spirit do not have material "bodies", as does Jesus, even now in heaven.
There is only one Holy Spirit, Who, as John tells us in his Gospel, "proceeds παρά the Father" (15:26), where the Greek preposition shows a distinction in Persons.
Acts2.21
Member
I come back to John 1:1, "Ἐν ἀρχῇ ἦν ὁ λόγος, καὶ ὁ λόγος ἦν πρὸς τὸν θεόν, καὶ θεὸς ἦν ὁ λόγος."
There are some very important truths in this verse on the Godhead, and the Two Persons mentioned here.
In the first place we have the words, "Ἐν ἀρχῇ", "in the beginning". This is not referring to the same "beginning" as found in Genesis 1:1, when Elohim began the creation of the universe. The words in John 1:1, go back to eternity past, as creation is mentioned later in verse 3. This is what Jesus meant in John 17:5, "And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was", where He speaks of His eternal Glory with He shared with the Father, "from eternity past". This clause thus affirms the eternity of The Word, the Lord Jesus Christ.
Secondly, we then read that this "Word", Who is from eternity, and therefore uncreated, is "with God". This tells us two things. That the Logos is not the "God" mentioned in this clause, and, that He is a distinct Person from this "God". This is clear from the use of the definite Greek article (ὁ and τὸν), which in this sentence, shows that there cannot be one Person that is meant, Also, we have the Greek preposition, "πρὸς", (with), which has the meanings, "along with", "in the presence of", "besides", etc. Again, showing distinction is meant.
Thirdly, in the final sentence, John writes, "καὶ θεὸς ἦν ὁ λόγος.". Those like the Jehovah's Witnesses, for their theological bias against Jesus as Yahweh, have rendered this, "and the Logos was a god". This is not what the Greek says here. They argue, with not grammatical justification, that, had John wished to write, "and the Logos was God", that he would have written in the Greek, "καὶ ὁ θεὸς ἦν ὁ λόγος.", where the Greek article "ὁ" is also used with "God". As I said, the JW's do so, not because the Greek grammar says so, but they cannot admit that the Bible does teach that Jesus is Almighty God. As things stand in this verse in the Greek, John could not have written, "καὶ ὁ θεὸς ἦν ὁ λόγος.", for two reasons. 1. had John written, "and the Word was the God", this would have made the nouns here convertible, that is, that he would have made "the Word" to be "the God", both would be identical Persons, and all of God would be only in the Word! 2. by writing "καὶ ὁ θεὸς ἦν ὁ λόγος.", John would have also made nonsense of his previous words, "καὶ ὁ λόγος ἦν πρὸς τὸν θεόν", because here he shows that "the Word" and "the God", were not one and the same person, as one is said to be WITH the other!
Here we have very clear teaching of the Godhead, where Two distinct (not separate) Persons are shown, Who are EQUALLY Almighty God!
There are some very important truths in this verse on the Godhead, and the Two Persons mentioned here.
In the first place we have the words, "Ἐν ἀρχῇ", "in the beginning". This is not referring to the same "beginning" as found in Genesis 1:1, when Elohim began the creation of the universe. The words in John 1:1, go back to eternity past, as creation is mentioned later in verse 3. This is what Jesus meant in John 17:5, "And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was", where He speaks of His eternal Glory with He shared with the Father, "from eternity past". This clause thus affirms the eternity of The Word, the Lord Jesus Christ.
Secondly, we then read that this "Word", Who is from eternity, and therefore uncreated, is "with God". This tells us two things. That the Logos is not the "God" mentioned in this clause, and, that He is a distinct Person from this "God". This is clear from the use of the definite Greek article (ὁ and τὸν), which in this sentence, shows that there cannot be one Person that is meant, Also, we have the Greek preposition, "πρὸς", (with), which has the meanings, "along with", "in the presence of", "besides", etc. Again, showing distinction is meant.
Thirdly, in the final sentence, John writes, "καὶ θεὸς ἦν ὁ λόγος.". Those like the Jehovah's Witnesses, for their theological bias against Jesus as Yahweh, have rendered this, "and the Logos was a god". This is not what the Greek says here. They argue, with not grammatical justification, that, had John wished to write, "and the Logos was God", that he would have written in the Greek, "καὶ ὁ θεὸς ἦν ὁ λόγος.", where the Greek article "ὁ" is also used with "God". As I said, the JW's do so, not because the Greek grammar says so, but they cannot admit that the Bible does teach that Jesus is Almighty God. As things stand in this verse in the Greek, John could not have written, "καὶ ὁ θεὸς ἦν ὁ λόγος.", for two reasons. 1. had John written, "and the Word was the God", this would have made the nouns here convertible, that is, that he would have made "the Word" to be "the God", both would be identical Persons, and all of God would be only in the Word! 2. by writing "καὶ ὁ θεὸς ἦν ὁ λόγος.", John would have also made nonsense of his previous words, "καὶ ὁ λόγος ἦν πρὸς τὸν θεόν", because here he shows that "the Word" and "the God", were not one and the same person, as one is said to be WITH the other!
Here we have very clear teaching of the Godhead, where Two distinct (not separate) Persons are shown, Who are EQUALLY Almighty God!