Not to bring up the Catholic thing again, but...

[Agnus_Dei]

Where does yours say baptism (works) saves?

...and where does the bible explicitly state that baptism is a "work"? the bible however is quite clear that baptism is for the remission of sins...see Acts 2:38, when St. Peter answered the question how they can be saved, after St. Peter's sermon...his answer...

"Repent, and let every one of you be bap*tized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit"...nuff said...

In XC
-

 

[annsni]

...and where does the bible explicitly state that baptism is a "work"? the bible however is quite clear that baptism is for the remission of sins...see Acts 2:38, when St. Peter answered the question how they can be saved, after St. Peter's sermon...his answer...

"Repent, and let every one of you be bap*tized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit"...nuff said...

In XC
-

Why does everyone miss the "repent" part of that verse?

 

[Zenas]

Why does everyone miss the "repent" part of that verse?

You're trying to make it say, "Repent [for the remission of sins] and let every one of you be baptized for the remission of sins," but the syntax just doesn't allow for it. Why is it so difficult to take it at face value rather than trying to force it into fitting your theology? Maybe you ought to adjust your theology so it conforms to what the Bible says.

 

[Matt Black]

Where does yours say baptism (works) saves?

I Peter 3:21 and Mark 16:16

 

[JohnDeereFan]

...and where does the bible explicitly state that baptism is a "work"? the bible however is quite clear that baptism is for the remission of sins...see Acts 2:38, when St. Peter answered the question how they can be saved, after St. Peter's sermon...his answer...

"Repent, and let every one of you be bap*tized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit"...nuff said...

In XC
-

Please pay attention to the grammar. Baptism is a response to salvation, not a means of salvation.

 

[Agnus_Dei]

Please pay attention to the grammar. Baptism is a response to salvation, not a means of salvation.

Sorry, but that's NOT how St. Peter answered the question regarding what one must do to be saved...

1) Repent
2) Be baptized for the remission of your sins
3) Recieve the gift of the Holy Spirit

To repent means to change our mind about how we have been, to turn from our sin and to commit ourselves to Christ.

To be baptized means to be born again by being joined into union with Christ. The experience of salvation is initiated in the waters of baptism. The Apostle Paul teaches in Romans 6:1-6 that in baptism we experience Christ's death and resurrection. In it our sins are truly forgiven and we are energized by our union with Christ to live a holy life.

And to receive the gift of the Holy Spirit means to receive the Spirit Who empowers us to enter a new life in Christ, to be nurtured in the Church, and to be conformed to God's image.

In XC
-

 

[BobRyan]

Why does everyone miss the "repent" part of that verse?

Because it does not fit the man made tradition for infant baptism.

Neither does the statement by pope Peter in 1Peter 3:21 where he says (in a loosely paraphrased fashion of course) "Baptism now saves you - NOT the special touch of magical sacramental water to the skin - but an APPEAL TO GOD for a clean conscience".

in Christ,

Bob

 

[JohnDeereFan]

Sorry, but that's NOT how St. Peter answered the question regarding what one must do to be saved...

1) Repent
2) Be baptized for the remission of your sins
3) Recieve the gift of the Holy Spirit

To repent means to change our mind about how we have been, to turn from our sin and to commit ourselves to Christ.

To be baptized means to be born again by being joined into union with Christ. The experience of salvation is initiated in the waters of baptism. The Apostle Paul teaches in Romans 6:1-6 that in baptism we experience Christ's death and resurrection. In it our sins are truly forgiven and we are energized by our union with Christ to live a holy life.

And to receive the gift of the Holy Spirit means to receive the Spirit Who empowers us to enter a new life in Christ, to be nurtured in the Church, and to be conformed to God's image.

In XC
-

And you just can't figure out why we think you're in a cult?

 

[Matt Black]

So, the EOC, in existence as one half of historic Christianity for nearly 2000 years, is a cult....:laugh: And Baptists aren't....:laugh::laugh:

 

[webdog]

I Peter 3:21 and Mark 16:16

Neither say works saves, in fact the very notion we are saved by works contradicts Ephesians 2:8-9

 

[webdog]

...and where does the bible explicitly state that baptism is a "work"? the bible however is quite clear that baptism is for the remission of sins...see Acts 2:38, when St. Peter answered the question how they can be saved, after St. Peter's sermon...his answer...

"Repent, and let every one of you be bap*tized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit"...nuff said...

In XC
-

Is baptism faith, or is it a response to faith? If the latter, it is a work. Abraham believed God and it was credited for righteousness...the act of taking Isaac to be sacrificed was a response to his faith. The same applies to baptism.

 

[Matt Black]

Neither say works saves, in fact the very notion we are saved by works contradicts Ephesians 2:8-9

I thought we were talking about baptism, not works?

 

[annsni]

OK - So let's say that baptism saves. Then God lies in Acts 2 -

Acts 2:21 "And it shall come to pass that everyone who calls upon the name of the Lord shall be saved."


Paul and Silas lied in Acts 16 -

Acts 16:30-33 "Then he brought them out and said, "Sirs, what must I do to be saved?" And they said, "Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household." And they spoke the word of the Lord to him and to all who were in his house. And he took them the same hour of the night and washed their wounds; and he was baptized at once, he and all his family."

** Note that he told them to believe and they will be saved - and THEN they were baptized.

Finally, Paul lies to all of the Romans and to us -

Romans 10:10 "For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved."

 

[Thinkingstuff]

OK - So let's say that baptism saves. Then God lies in Acts 2 -

Acts 2:21 "And it shall come to pass that everyone who calls upon the name of the Lord shall be saved."


Paul and Silas lied in Acts 16 -

Acts 16:30-33 "Then he brought them out and said, "Sirs, what must I do to be saved?" And they said, "Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household." And they spoke the word of the Lord to him and to all who were in his house. And he took them the same hour of the night and washed their wounds; and he was baptized at once, he and all his family."

** Note that he told them to believe and they will be saved - and THEN they were baptized.

Finally, Paul lies to all of the Romans and to us -

Romans 10:10 "For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved."

depends on how you call on the Lord.

 

[Amy.G]

The only baptism that we need for salvation is the baptism of the Holy Spirit.


Mt*3:11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:

 

[webdog]

I thought we were talking about baptism, not works?

Baptism is a work. It is a response to faith...obedience. Still a work nonetheless.

 

[Thinkingstuff]

Baptism is a work. It is a response to faith...obedience. Still a work nonetheless.

Is faith a work?

 

[DHK]

Ok use Bob in place of Mary that was my intention anyway. Now re read the post with Bob. See if that makes more sense. There is a vehicle to communication. Talking. If I use this english word talking in context with God then the implication is a special reverance. If I use that same word in context with talking to Bob the significance is different and reverance that is given to God is not included in the understanding of what I am saying. The english word prayer is like that.
If I'm talking to God or man the hebrew word is the same להתפלל like the english word pray or talk so it depends which context the speach is in. However, if I worship God and give reverance to him the Hebrew word is לסגוד or if I want to be more fervant I would use חיה כדי לסגוד

Does one talk to Bob in the same way that he talks to God? Absolutely not. They are both means of communication, that is true. If I were to approach the Queen of England I wouldn't say: "Hey queenie, how are you doing today? Gitta' a good nite sleep last nite, did ya?" That is a vehicle of communication also. The Queen deserves a better protocol than that, and more respect.
How much more does the King of kings and Lord of lords? He alone deserves our worship, honour, praise, adoration. To him we address our prayers and to no other. We address the Lord much differently than we address our friend Bob. It is apples and oranges.

Psalms 100:4 Enter into his gates with thanksgiving, and into his courts with praise: be thankful unto him, and bless his name.

 

[Thinkingstuff]

Does one talk to Bob in the same way that he talks to God? Absolutely not. They are both means of communication, that is true. If I were to approach the Queen of England I wouldn't say: "Hey queenie, how are you doing today? Gitta' a good nite sleep last nite, did ya?" That is a vehicle of communication also. The Queen deserves a better protocol than that, and more respect.
How much more does the King of kings and Lord of lords? He alone deserves our worship, honour, praise, adoration. To him we address our prayers and to no other. We address the Lord much differently than we address our friend Bob. It is apples and oranges.

Psalms 100:4 Enter into his gates with thanksgiving, and into his courts with praise: be thankful unto him, and bless his name.

Which exactly is my Point. Catholics claim that their prayer to Mary is the lesser form of communication than their prayer to God.

 

[PamelaK]

In Acts 2:38 the baptism is in response to the remission of sins gained by repentance. The key word is for. If you "jump for joy", are you jumping in order to become joyful or because you already have joy? The grammar in the verse is the same. (Sorry if this point has already been brought up - have been skimming quickly here..)