Not well with the soul

[agedman]

This is a really strange line of argumentation.

Then prove me wrong by Scriptures.

You cited Paul’s use of heathen’s in worship. Prove it.

 

[agedman]

I have read enough of it. I quit reading the trash at "rabid Arminian". I dont care who wrote the hymn. Is there anything un Scriptural about the Hymn?

Then you really have no part to add to the discussion.

Spafford was a heretic.

Yet, you would endorse his work?

Read the link, then think about what he really was communicating with the words.

 

[agedman]

If you discovered the owner of the building where your church meets gives money to Planned Parenthood, would you stop attending that church?

Yep.

 

[Reynolds]

Then you really have no part to add to the discussion.

Spafford was a heretic.

Yet, you would endorse his work?

Read the link, then think about what he really was communicating with the words.

I know what he communicates to me. I really dont care if Hitler wrote the song

 

[JonC]

I wonder how this will look in the distant future.

There are some who insist all aspects of worship must be biblically authorized. They reject any instrumental music.

Some see the piano as secular and profane. Others are OK with a piano and organ, but draw the line at stringed instruments.

Long ago many considered our traditional hymns secular and profane, Insisting only psalms were appropriate in worship.

Too much here is subjective. I would rather see someone sing contemporary songs I dislike in true worship than see people sing old hymns with a false pieity.

 

[agedman]

What of Balaam's pronouncements over the Israelites? Were they any less blessings because of his greed and treachery? And Caiaphas's prophecy as high priest? Was it any less true because that unbeliever was intent on murdering God's Son?

Perhaps those who have true spiritual discernment should be in charge of choosing verses and leading worship. Otherwise we risk applying whatever is sung in an ungodly way. Even Scripture can be misappropriated and misapplied. "The Bible tells me so."

Balsam was not attending nor involved in establishing the issues concerning a worship service.

Caiaphas was not in a worship service nor conducting a worship service at the time of prophecy.

Not a single song sung or played should not undergo thorough validation for Scripture approval. Every line, every phrase.

As Paul instructed the early church should be done.

 

[agedman]

I wonder how this will look in the distant future.

There are some who insist all aspects of worship must be biblically authorized. They reject any instrumental music.

Some see the piano as secular and profane. Others are OK with a piano and organ, but draw the line at stringed instruments.

Long ago many considered our traditional hymns secular and profane, Insisting only psalms were appropriate in worship.

Too much here is subjective. I would rather see someone sing contemporary songs I dislike in true worship than see people sing old hymns with a false pieity.

I’m not concerned about “the distant future” nor the rejection of instruments. Neither concern is part of the thread.

May I suggest that singing the words of Scripture in which there is divine inspiration and that in which the Holy Spirit uses to convict and confirm is not comparable to any written prose by those who have evidenced no truth from God in their character, life, and living.

To attempt such an alignment is fleshly motivated in my opinion.

 

[JonC]

I’m not concerned about “the distant future” nor the rejection of instruments. Neither concern is part of the thread.

May I suggest that singing the words of Scripture in which there is divine inspiration and that in which the Holy Spirit uses to convict and confirm is not comparable to any written prose by those who have evidenced no truth from God in their character, life, and living.

To attempt such an alignment is fleshly motivated in my opinion.

Thanks for replying.

I am trying to understand your position "on the ground".

In your opinion are traditional hymns wrong?

What about things not authorized by Scripture like pianos, collection plates, VBS, church camps, ect?

 

[agedman]

I know what he communicates to me. I really dont care if Hitler wrote the song

If that were truth, then you could enjoy “Mine Kampf” decades ago, I read it, and it does have its appeal to some even to this day.

How are they the same?

Spafford’s teaching is seen in the lives of folks such as Phoebe Palmer, Jim Jones, David Koresh,

Heretical teaching is as bad today, as it was in Paul.

He had the problem and of false teaching sneaking in and stated “a little leaven leaves the whole” and that is the same with Hitler and Spafford.

False teaching ruined the whole.

 

[agedman]

Thanks for replying.

I am trying to understand your position "on the ground".

In your opinion are traditional hymns wrong?

What about things not authorized by Scripture like pianos, collection plates, VBS, church camps, ect?

This is not about hymns, but one song sung by many and from the evil heart that it came from.

It is about Spafford and the heretical teaching he espoused.

Did you read the link?

 

[JonC]

This is not about hymns, but one song sung by many and from the evil heart that it came from.

It is about Spafford and the heretical teaching he espoused.

Did you read the link?

No, I could not open the link. I am trying to catch up through the responses.

But I like the song and it's theology. I do not care so much about its writer (I believe God a God of means).

 

[RighteousnessTemperance&]

Balsam was not attending nor involved in establishing the issues concerning a worship service. Caiaphas was not in a worship service nor conducting a worship service at the time of prophecy. Not a single song sung or played should not undergo thorough validation for Scripture approval. Every line, every phrase. As Paul instructed the early church should be done.

When Horatio Gates Spafford, or his wife Anna, or Balaam or Caiaphas for that matter, shows up for a worship service, I’ll reconsider the matter. But since none of that will be happening, I’m not going to worry about which deceased person wrote the song, or what their beliefs on earth were. I imagine they’ve all changed their tune by now.

In any case, your mechanical, superficial approach is no substitute for spiritual discernment or expression.

 

[canadyjd]

I would like for you to find evidence that Paul ever quoted any heathen in a worship service.

There is evidence he did so in out door preaching as an evangelist, as he wrote personal letters, but I have yet to find such statements n a worship service.

I don’t know the Scriptures ever record a worship service other than one, and even then it was ended up a healing service when Paul put a young man to sleep by drowning on and on for hours.

So, produce something of evidence.

As far as my own thinking, it isn’t a “meet sacrificed to idol” issue.

One is to worship in spirit and truth.

One cannot expect the spirit to endorse that which derives from McLean heart and unclean living.

Spafford, IF you actually read the documentation, was anything but pure in any area of his character.

I said Paul used those quotes from pagans in the scripture he wrote by the will of God. When pastors preach from those passages, they repeat those quotes.

And when Paul preached on Mars Hill, he quoted from a pagan idol (“to the unknown god”) and used it in the sermon.

Should we disqualify Paul because he quoted pagans? Of course not. Paul stated there were pastors preaching with impure motives, but he rejoiced because the gospel was being preached.

Back to the OP. Can you point to anything in the hymn “It is well with my soul” that is inappropriate, unscriptural?

If not, rejoice that believers are worshipping in Spirit and Truth and know that God is able to hit straight with a crooked stick.

peace to you

 

[agedman]

When Horatio Gates Spafford, or his wife Anna, or Balaam or Caiaphas for that matter, shows up for a worship service, I’ll reconsider the matter. But since none of that will be happening, I’m not going to worry about which deceased person wrote the song, or what their beliefs on earth were. I imagine they’ve all changed their tune by now.

In any case, your mechanical, superficial approach is no substitute for spiritual discernment or expression.

So it matters not the thinking of an author?

I recall when “Bridge Over Troubled Water” was sung in churches and folks had the same thinking you posted.

It is called discernment.

If there is a lack of discernment, there is a lack of wisdom of what is Holy and what is trickery.

That principle is found in Scriptures and applies to all areas of contact in this living.

If one accepts that which is produced by the ungodly, how are they to expect other than trickery?

Can the ungodly , unclean, ever make the unclean clean?

 

[Jerome]

Crown College of the Bible choir sings it:

 

[agedman]

I said Paul used those quotes from pagans in the scripture he wrote by the will of God. When pastors preach from those passages, they repeat those quotes.

And when Paul preached on Mars Hill, he quoted from a pagan idol (“to the unknown god”) and used it in the sermon.

Should we disqualify Paul because he quoted pagans? Of course not. Paul stated there were pastors preaching with impure motives, but he rejoiced because the gospel was being preached.

Back to the OP. Can you point to anything in the hymn “It is well with my soul” that is inappropriate, unscriptural?

If not, rejoice that believers are worshipping in Spirit and Truth and know that God is able to hit straight with a crooked stick.

peace to you

Do you really think Paul knew he was writing Scripture? No one thought that when they got the letters. It was much latter the writings became understood as Scripture. Prior to that, the assemblies passed the information along. This is seen when one reads Polycarp’s letter.

Paul evangelizing on Mars hill was not a worship service. I thought you would know that.

Did I quote the Hymn, or speak of 5he source of the song?

If you actually read the link, then look at the song, it would be plain.

It is discernment that Paul instructs the assembly to use to find that which is profitable and according to His word.

What “Spirit of truth” is found in the writings of a heretic?

The song, “Sentimental Journey” has as much truth and I would like to think believers would have more sense than to consider it for worship.

Probably not, though.

Again, you would offer a God a crooked stick, when you have better to offer?

Do you really think that is pleasing tp a holy God?

Does not the Scripture state that believers are to “be Holy” just as he instructed the Jews? To bring pure, separated, and unblemished by the world to Him? To worship God in the splendor of His holiness?

What place has the offering of a heretic in that which is worthy of Him?

 

[agedman]

Crown College of the Bible choir sings it:

So?

Did you read the OP link.

Do you know the author was a heretic?

 

[canadyjd]

Do you really think Paul knew he was writing Scripture? No one thought that when they got the letters. It was much latter the writings became understood as Scripture. Prior to that, the assemblies passed the information along. This is seen when one reads Polycarp’s letter.

Paul evangelizing on Mars hill was not a worship service. I thought you would know that.

Did I quote the Hymn, or speak of 5he source of the song?

F you actually read the link, then look at the song, it would be plain.

It is discernment that Paul instructs the assembly to use to find that which is profitable and according to His word.

What “Spirit of truth” is found in the writings of a heretic?

The song, “Sentimental Journey” has as much truth and I would like to think believers would have more sense than to consider it for worship.

Probably not, though.

Again, you would offer a God a crooked stick, when you have better to offer?

Do you really think that is pleasing tp a holy God?

Does not the Scripture state that believers are to “be Holy” just as he instructed the Jews? To bring pure, separated, and unblemished by the world to Him? To worship God in the splendor of His holiness?

What place has the offering of a heretic in that which is worthy of Him?

Thanks for the conversation

peace to you

 

[InTheLight]

F you actually read the link, then look at the song, it would be plain.

"F you?"

Really?

 

[agedman]

"F you?"

Really?

Good catch.

I reported that post and ask it be corrected.

Sometimes my finger doesn’t push the correct place on the iPad.

I trust that leaving the “I” out of “If” brought no offense to anyone.