Not well with the soul

[Reynolds]

Back in the day, the music director of our radio station refused to allow the songs of a certain female artists
to air because her recent actions was very un-christian. (I forget who that was - this was about 1990 {?} )

Amy Grant.
I probably hold the artists to a much higher standard than the author. Especially if the song is 100 years old.

 

[agedman]

Amy Grant.
I probably hold the artists to a much higher standard than the author. Especially if the song is 100 years old.

Are you attempting to excuse a heretic by attempting to lessen the evil by presenting an association with other failures?

This thread is not about any other song nor the author of words to other songs used in worship.

I suppose one could imagine Eli's response when folks confronted him about Hopni. Perhaps he would make the excuse that Hopni wasn't as bad as Phineas, or if they complained about Phineas would respond about him not being as bad as Hopni.

Such arguments are not substantive and generally come from one desiring to dismiss rather than to discern.

I don't consider you of that character, but one that will look into and investigate in an effort to actually come to terms that you may also teach others.

 

[Reynolds]

Are you attempting to excuse a heretic by attempting to lessen the evil by presenting an association with other failures?

This thread is not about any other song nor the author of words to other songs used in worship.

I suppose one could imagine Eli's response when folks confronted him about Hopni. Perhaps he would make the excuse that Hopni wasn't as bad as Phineas, or if they complained about Phineas would respond about him not being as bad as Hopni.

Such arguments are not substantive and generally come from one desiring to dismiss rather than to discern.

I don't consider you of that character, but one that will look into and investigate in an effort to actually come to terms that you may also teach others.

Can you show me heresy in the song? In the actual song?

 

[JonC]

What about a man led to Christ by a unsaved pastor?

Oh, Paul actually addresses this kind of thing, doesn't he. It is not the person but the message and how God uses it. That is why Paul could say let 'em preach and praise God the gospel is proclaimed.

 

[tyndale1946]

Can you show me heresy in the song? In the actual song?

I have been leading and singing this song for over 45 years and weather Spafford was a heretic, this is the first time I've heard of it... Be that as it may agedman, it will not stop me from sing this song, because if the words are NOT SOUND DOCTRINE, YOU show me what is?... Brother Glen

When peace like a river attendeth my way
When sorrows like sea billows roll
Whatever my lot, Thou hast taught me to say
It is well, it is well with my soul
It is well with my soul
It is well with my soul
It is well, it is well with my soul

Though Satan should buffet, though trials should come
Let this blest assurance control
That Christ has regarded my helpless estate
And has shed His own blood for my soul
It is well, it is well with my soul
It is well with my soul
It is well with my soul
It is well, it is well with my soul

My sin, oh the bliss of this glorious thought
My sin, not in part, but the whole
Is nailed to the cross, and I bear it no more
Praise the Lord, praise the Lord, O my soul!
It is well, it is well with my soul
It is well with my soul
It is well with my soul
It is well, it is well with my soul

And Lord, haste the day when my faith shall be sight
The clouds be rolled back as a scroll
The trump shall resound, and the Lord shall descend
Even so, it is well with my soul!
It is well, it is well with my soul
It is well with my soul
It is well with my soul
It is well, it is well with my soul

 

[RighteousnessTemperance&]

So it matters not the thinking of an author?
I recall when “Bridge Over Troubled Water” was sung in churches and folks had the same thinking you posted.
It is called discernment.
If there is a lack of discernment, there is a lack of wisdom of what is Holy and what is trickery.
That principle is found in Scriptures and applies to all areas of contact in this living.
If one accepts that which is produced by the ungodly, how are they to expect other than trickery?
Can the ungodly , unclean, ever make the unclean clean?

Thus far your premise and your posts have exhibited little in the way of true spiritual discernment. You should apply much more wisdom in your approach. Jesus said, "'Stop judging by mere appearances and make a right judgment.'"

The best way to judge the content of an old song would be to have spiritual people examine it apart from the author, setting, etc. If they cannot discern any spiritual problems with it, then resurrecting the author's supposed leanings a century later is moot.

The only real problem would be if someone thinks that a source could be infallible, and that is indeed a real problem for the church today. Far too many tend to think that certain teachers, preachers, or leaders cannot err. That is most dangerous.

 

[agedman]

Can you show me heresy in the song? In the actual song?

Would you allow a heretic to present in a worship service?

 

[JonC]

Would you allow a heretic to present in a worship service?

A better question is if you would damn the man God reached through his sermon?

 

[Reynolds]

Would you allow a heretic to present in a worship service?

No, but I have used a lot of stuff written by heretics, heathens, renegades, rebels, and rogues in sermons and in Sunday School etc.

 

[agedman]

Thus far your premise and your posts have exhibited little in the way of true spiritual discernment. You should apply much more wisdom in your approach. Jesus said, "'Stop judging by mere appearances and make a right judgment.'"

The best way to judge the content of an old song would be to have spiritual people examine it apart from the author, setting, etc. If they cannot discern any spiritual problems with it, then resurrecting the author's supposed leanings a century later is moot.

The only real problem would be if someone thinks that a source could be infallible, and that is indeed a real problem for the church today. Far too many tend to think that certain teachers, preachers, or leaders cannot err. That is most dangerous.

Wisdom?

Did you know anything of the author and the views he taught?

Did you read about his views and examine them in light of the words he chose?

The advice in your post is poor when considering when the Lord judges he considers even our idle chat.

Then Paul states that we are to sit in judgment of angels and are to learn to settle matters before that time - both that pertaining to civil and in another place that concerning spiritual.

Who is one judging on “appearance” and not looking below the surface at motives and character? Where is the discernment?

Your post suggests the establishment of a council, I suppose like the rulers of the Jews did, the Sanhedrin, so that the individuals of the assembly could perhaps pass the blame or escape responsibility?

Yet, again Paul states that each member of the assembly is individually responsible for the teaching and the conduct (testimony) of each other. To mark out (name) those that do not follow the way.

 

[agedman]

A better question is if you would damn the man God reached through his sermon?

What sermon?

Did you examine the doctrine Spafford taught, his character, his living?

 

[Reynolds]

Wisdom?

Did you know anything of the author and the views he taught?

Did you read about his views and examine them in light of the words he chose?

The advice in your post is poor when considering when the Lord judges he considers even our idle chat.

Then Paul states that we are to sit in judgment of angels and are to learn to settle matters before that time - both that pertaining to civil and in another place that concerning spiritual.

Who is one judging on “appearance” and not looking below the surface at motives and character? Where is the discernment?

Your post suggests the establishment of a council, I suppose like the rulers of the Jews did, the Sanhedrin, so that the individuals of the assembly could perhaps pass the blame or escape responsibility?

Yet, again Paul states that each member of the assembly is individually responsible for the teaching and the conduct (testimony) of each other. To mark out (name) those that do not follow the way.

This really boils down to If you dont like it, dont sing it. I like it. I will continue to sing the song. I have used the song and its author as part of illustrations. You can label me a heretic if you like. I dont care.

 

[JonC]

What sermon?

Did you examine the doctrine Spafford taught, his character, his living?

If a heretic preaches a sermon and God uses that sermon to reach a man then is that man really saved?

I ask because Paul speaks of non-Christians spreading the gospel for personal gain. Paul said he praises God the gospel is proclaimed nonetheless.

Do you believe Paul should have encouraged the church to shut down the false preacher? Why do you believe he took the opposite path?

 

[agedman]

No, but I have used a lot of stuff written by heretics, heathens, renegades, rebels, and rogues in sermons and in Sunday School etc.

20Do not despise prophecies, 21but test everything; hold fast what is good. 22Abstain from every form of evil.

 

[agedman]

This really boils down to If you dont like it, dont sing it. I like it. I will continue to sing the song. I have used the song and its author as part of illustrations. You can label me a heretic if you like. I dont care.

I didn’t label you a heretic.

I posted a specific work from a specific heretic.

If you find such acceptable worship, that is up to you and the assembly in which you fellowship.

I merely posted the truth.

 

[JonC]

BTW, a more contemporary example would be C. S. Lewis. Should Christians read his books or allow their children to watch the Narnia movies?

A. W. Tozier has to be added to the list as well. I personally like his works and zeal, but he had serious issues in his life. I do not know if people still read Tozer.

 

[agedman]

If a heretic preaches a sermon and God uses that sermon to reach a man then is that man really saved?

I ask because Paul speaks of non-Christians spreading the gospel for personal gain. Paul said he praises God the gospel is proclaimed nonetheless.

Do you believe Paul should have encouraged the church to shut down the false preacher? Why do you believe he took the opposite path?

Certainly he does.

There is a difference between evangelistic outreach and offering worship to the most holy.

I ask you, do you present before a holy God for worship that which is less, and (if you read the link) now know from the intellect, life, and character that produced the writing?

Or do you consider that the character, intellectual views, and testimony of the life lived have no bearing upon what that person wrote?

 

[agedman]

BTW, a more contemporary example would be C. S. Lewis. Should Christians read his books or allow their children to watch the Narnia movies?

A. W. Tozier has to be added to the list as well. I personally like his works and zeal, but he had serious issues in his life. I do not know if people still read Tozer.

Neither of these would raise to the level of heretic.

You didn’t read the link in the OP did you?

 

[JonC]

Certainly he does.

There is a difference between evangelistic outreach and offering worship to the most holy.

I ask you, do you present before a holy God for worship that which is less, and (if you read the link) now know from the intellect, life, and character that produced the writing?

Or do you consider that the character, intellectual views, and testimony of the life lived have no bearing upon what that person wrote?

When I worship and sing "It is Well With My Soul" the worship I offer is my own - not the writer of the hymn. I worship in spirit and truth, the words of that song expressing my heart to God in thanksgiving and praise.

Personally, I do not condemn others for worship styles I do not appreciate. I would like to say thus us in obedience to God's command, but like you I have been disobedient and very critical of worship music.

What changed my opinion was seeing how God used some of these contemporary songs. I realized not only are we disobedient when we judge Another's servant but we can also be actively opposing God.

 

[RighteousnessTemperance&]

Your post suggests the establishment of a council, I suppose like the rulers of the Jews did, the Sanhedrin, so that the individuals of the assembly could perhaps pass the blame or escape responsibility?

Yet, again Paul states that each member of the assembly is individually responsible for the teaching and the conduct (testimony) of each other. To mark out (name) those that do not follow the way.

No, I'm saying your posts are a major fail in the very thing you imagine you are advocating.