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Obab
- Thread starter steaver
- Start date
You musn't be surprised, brother in Christ, for the few or no replies. 'The wrong side' goes for the vainglorious.
But here is my contribution, to break the ice, John 5:21-25. Could there be a better (If we may 'compare')! But this Scripture has gained significance with me through recent debates on this forum it's unbelievable!
But here is my contribution, to break the ice, John 5:21-25. Could there be a better (If we may 'compare')! But this Scripture has gained significance with me through recent debates on this forum it's unbelievable!
The Scriptures also say God will not forsake the works of his own hands. Now if that is true of God's works out of nothing - his physical and innocent creation - how much more is it true of the work of God vis a vis the adversary sin death and devil and threatening nihil! God through his work of regeneration of the sinner proves Himself the Invincible. How worthy of Himself that one born of God is born once for eternity! Praise His Name!
Pastor_Bob
Well-Known Member
We need look no further than John 10:27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man [that includes me] is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.
30 I and my Father are one.
If that passage is not enough, we also have John 6:37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.
38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.
39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.
Those who teach that a person can lose their salvation are really teaching a salvation of works because, if a saved person can ever be lost again, it is because he has failed in his works. There is no failure in the grace of God. There is no weakness in the power of God. So, if this person fails, he must have failed in his works.
That also means that if he doesn’t become lost, then it’s also because of his good works. It is not possible to have it both ways. Either you put your trust in Jesus Christ and His shed blood for the forgiveness of your sins, or you are trusting in good works.
Praise God, once born - always born!
28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man [that includes me] is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.
30 I and my Father are one.
If that passage is not enough, we also have John 6:37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.
38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.
39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.
Those who teach that a person can lose their salvation are really teaching a salvation of works because, if a saved person can ever be lost again, it is because he has failed in his works. There is no failure in the grace of God. There is no weakness in the power of God. So, if this person fails, he must have failed in his works.
That also means that if he doesn’t become lost, then it’s also because of his good works. It is not possible to have it both ways. Either you put your trust in Jesus Christ and His shed blood for the forgiveness of your sins, or you are trusting in good works.
Praise God, once born - always born!
BobRyan
Well-Known Member
Here it is again "Adam the son of God" - Luke 3.
38 the son of Enosh, the son of Seth, the son of Adam, the son of God.
Here it is again "you shall surely die" Gen 2
Here it is again "Lest he take of the tree of life and live forever - cast out" Gen 3
Here it is again "through one man's sin death spread to all" Romans 5.
Here it is again - "Adam did not need to be UNBORN - nor uncreated-sinless to become lost"
Happily these word games from OSAS leave us simply pointing out the glaringly obvious in response to unmask "the game" they play.
(Not that I am complaining -- after all what could be easier than this?)
in Christ,
Bob
38 the son of Enosh, the son of Seth, the son of Adam, the son of God.
Here it is again "you shall surely die" Gen 2
Here it is again "Lest he take of the tree of life and live forever - cast out" Gen 3
Here it is again "through one man's sin death spread to all" Romans 5.
Here it is again - "Adam did not need to be UNBORN - nor uncreated-sinless to become lost"
Happily these word games from OSAS leave us simply pointing out the glaringly obvious in response to unmask "the game" they play.
(Not that I am complaining -- after all what could be easier than this?)
in Christ,
Bob
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Pastor_Bob
Well-Known Member
The verses you offer are glaring proof of OBAB. Centuries after the fall, Adam was still known as "the son of God." His sin severed the fellowship he had with God but it did not, in any way, sever the relationship he had with God.
I probably was not clear enough in the OP.
I was not refering to Once created by God Always created by God. We all know that once God creates your soul and spirit at conception you will always be created unless God Himself destroys you by His own will.
The "born of God" I was referencing was the NT spiritual "rebirth", Spirit quickening the spirit of an already created fallen person.
So Adam would not be an example of a lost soul who becomes "born of God" through the quickening Spirit. Unless of course you have a scriptual example of Adam becoming born-again.
God Bless! :thumbs:
BobRyan
Well-Known Member
I agree there are obvious points of scripture you need to ignore in your "unborn" arguments. Apparently we both agree to that part.
In Gal 1 Paul says there is only ONE Gospel solution for all of time - you need to "ignore that" pretending that Adam had something "different" going when he was lost and then born "AGAIN".
Understood.
In Gal 1 Paul says there is only ONE Gospel solution for all of time - you need to "ignore that" pretending that Adam had something "different" going when he was lost and then born "AGAIN".
Understood.
All you need to do is reference a scripture that tells of Adam's rebirth experience and I will have to submit.
If you want to begin a thread about ONE Gospel solution for all time go right ahead. This thread is about Once Born of God (regeneration) Always Born of God.
You have not yet contributed anything to this topic. You used Adam's creation as a human being as an example. This is not the subject at hand. spiritual REbirth is.
God Bless! :thumbs:
It appears that those who hold fast to the view one can lose eternal life in Christ don't know much about the "born of God" subject.
i was hoping to have a bit more scriptural input from this side of the isle, but even BobRyan, a solid opponant of eternal 'eternal security in Christ', struggles on this topic. If Bob can't come up with some solid scriptures how is any on his side's view going to have a chance?
The lack of voice on this thread from the insecurity camp speaks volumes!
God Bless! :thumbs:
i was hoping to have a bit more scriptural input from this side of the isle, but even BobRyan, a solid opponant of eternal 'eternal security in Christ', struggles on this topic. If Bob can't come up with some solid scriptures how is any on his side's view going to have a chance?
The lack of voice on this thread from the insecurity camp speaks volumes!
God Bless! :thumbs:
Pastor_Bob
Well-Known Member
I am squarely in the OSAS camp. however, silence from the other side means nothing. Perhaps they are simply tired of arguing the point time and again.steaver said:
I personally believe Adam and Eve were both "born spiritually" (they were never born physically, therefore no need to be "born again") when they accepted the sacrifice that God performed to supply them with a coat to cover their nakedness. I believe they understood that this was a picture of the Redeemer that would come to cover the sins of mankind, and they placed their faith in that Redeemer. That is my opinion.
BobRyan
Well-Known Member
I believe that opinion fits squarely with the statement of Paul in Gal 1 that there is only one Gospel -- it works only one way.
Christ said in John 3 "precross" that EVEN then you had to be "born again" to go to heaven.
Adam and Eve were really lost and were really in need of Salvation according to Romans 5.
This is the only biblically sound view of the lost, the Gospel and the way salvation works -- that I know of -
In Christ,
Bob
Christ said in John 3 "precross" that EVEN then you had to be "born again" to go to heaven.
Adam and Eve were really lost and were really in need of Salvation according to Romans 5.
This is the only biblically sound view of the lost, the Gospel and the way salvation works -- that I know of -
In Christ,
Bob
And there's the answer. I need read no further.Pastor_Bob said:
BobRyan
Well-Known Member
I will still point out that Luke calls Adam "the son of God" in Luke 3 and there are no "Adam had to be uncreated" nor even "unborn" arguments in Romans 5 pointing to the fact that Adam fell under the 2nd death condemnation of the Law of God.
The "unborn" and "uncreated" arguments are a gimmick -- simply gaming the point of scripture in an effort to invent an alternate reality.
But what is "not" imaginary friend gaming - is the hard solid fact in Matt 18 of forgiveness revoked as the servant is said to be fully forgiven his entire debt and THEN is seen to have the FULL debt returned to him. UNFORGIVEN is "real"
in Christ,
Bob
The "unborn" and "uncreated" arguments are a gimmick -- simply gaming the point of scripture in an effort to invent an alternate reality.
But what is "not" imaginary friend gaming - is the hard solid fact in Matt 18 of forgiveness revoked as the servant is said to be fully forgiven his entire debt and THEN is seen to have the FULL debt returned to him. UNFORGIVEN is "real"
in Christ,
Bob