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Obab
- Thread starter steaver
- Start date
I did a search on the phrase "born of God" and here are the results......
There were five exact matches, all found in the NT.....
1Jo 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
1Jo 4:7 Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God.
1Jo 5:1 Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him.
1Jo 5:4 For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, [even] our faith.
1Jo 5:18 We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.
Here we learn four specific facts about those born of God;
1) they cannot continue in sin.
2) those born of God loves and knows God.
3) those who believe Jesus is the Christ is born of God.
4) those born of God overcomes the world.
Now let's say for sake of argument a professing Christian is found to be habitually unloving. Does this then show the person once was born of God and then became unborn of God, or is the scripture declaring that if a person is habitually unloving then they were never ever born of God?
Scripture also states this...
1Jo 4:20 If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen?
Here the scripture seems to side with the fact that this person has never been born of God. He is a liar. And not that this person is born of God but has lost eternal life or has forfeited it somehow for hating.
Things to think about!
God Bless! :thumbs:
There were five exact matches, all found in the NT.....
1Jo 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
1Jo 4:7 Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God.
1Jo 5:1 Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him.
1Jo 5:4 For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, [even] our faith.
1Jo 5:18 We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.
Here we learn four specific facts about those born of God;
1) they cannot continue in sin.
2) those born of God loves and knows God.
3) those who believe Jesus is the Christ is born of God.
4) those born of God overcomes the world.
Now let's say for sake of argument a professing Christian is found to be habitually unloving. Does this then show the person once was born of God and then became unborn of God, or is the scripture declaring that if a person is habitually unloving then they were never ever born of God?
Scripture also states this...
1Jo 4:20 If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen?
Here the scripture seems to side with the fact that this person has never been born of God. He is a liar. And not that this person is born of God but has lost eternal life or has forfeited it somehow for hating.
Things to think about!
God Bless! :thumbs:
BobRyan
Well-Known Member
steaver said:
Neither Adam nor Lucifer had to be "uncreated" to fall into condemnation.
The person who is bornagain and then is "severed from Christ and fallen from Grace" Gal 5:4 must be "born again".
In Matt 18 when the unforgiving - yet forgiven servant refuses to forgive others his lord does NOT say "you refuse to forgive others because I tricked you -- I did not really forgive you so you WERE doing to others what I did you" -- as much as OSAS likes to imagine otherwise.
in Christ,
Bob
Pastor_Bob
Well-Known Member
The problem here is that you are trying to take a parable about forgiveness and twisting it to refer to salvation. Jesus is not illustrating salvation; He is illustrating the need to extend forgiveness to our fellowman. That is why it is unwise to base doctrine on parables alone.
BobRyan
Well-Known Member
Jesus concludes at the end of the parable "so shall my Father do to each one of you IF you do not forgive your brother from your heart" --
The "so" in this case is a reference to the "forgiveness revoked" detail in the parable.
So when Christ tells a parable "illustrating forgiveness revoked" and goes on to state outside the parable that this 'revoking of forgiveness" detail seen in the parable is exactly that part that will be done in real life to those who refuse to forgive others AS they have really been forgiven -- we conclude He literally means that warning to be taken as fact.
in Christ,
Bob
The "so" in this case is a reference to the "forgiveness revoked" detail in the parable.
So when Christ tells a parable "illustrating forgiveness revoked" and goes on to state outside the parable that this 'revoking of forgiveness" detail seen in the parable is exactly that part that will be done in real life to those who refuse to forgive others AS they have really been forgiven -- we conclude He literally means that warning to be taken as fact.
in Christ,
Bob
Pastor_Bob
Well-Known Member
The example in this parable is not the wicked servant; it is the goodness, mercy, and forgiveness of our heavenly Father. We are not to exemplify the man, but rather exemplify the Lord.
The truth of this parable in no way presents losing one's salvation. It is to declare that all men are great sinners but, even so, God is merciful to forgive us. It is to illustrate that, by comparison, our offense toward men is trivial when compared to our offense toward God, and so we should forgive them willingly. If we do not, there is a consequence. God 's forgiveness to us is in direct proportion to our forgiveness of others. That is the lesson. You'll find a host of Scripture to support this position, but none to support forgiveness revoked.
Mt 6:12 And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors.
Eph 4:32 And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you.
The truth of this parable in no way presents losing one's salvation. It is to declare that all men are great sinners but, even so, God is merciful to forgive us. It is to illustrate that, by comparison, our offense toward men is trivial when compared to our offense toward God, and so we should forgive them willingly. If we do not, there is a consequence. God 's forgiveness to us is in direct proportion to our forgiveness of others. That is the lesson. You'll find a host of Scripture to support this position, but none to support forgiveness revoked.
Mt 6:12 And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors.
Eph 4:32 And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you.
Brother you are becoming a shining example for the purpose of this thread which is to reveal the ignorance Christians have when it comes to understanding "born of God".
I have found that most who believe a Christian can end up lost have very little understanding of "born of God".
Adam being "created" is NOT an example of "born of God" as defined in the NT scriptures.
Lucifer being "created" is NOT an example of "born of God" as defined in the NT scriptures.
People do NOT become "born of God" over and over. Do you have any scripture that declares such? Then it is not adding any substance to this thread.
It is a simple question that only needs a "yes" or "no" and some scripture on "born of God" to support your answer.
Hopefully some other folks will reply and we can get some good solid bible study going.
God Bless! :thumbs:
BobRyan
Well-Known Member
steaver said:
Sadly "Adam the son of GOD" is the statement of Scripture in Luke 3. I can keep quoting it and you can keep repretending that Adam was not in the family of God -
But at LEAST your doublespeak in that latest post shows that while you wanted to pretend this is not just another OSAS thread -- it in fact (obviously) is.
in Christ,
Bob
Clever try, but the thread's OP asks this question..."Once a person is born of God is this person always born of God?"
Why don't you do a study on the word translated into English as "the son" and see what you come up with. I believe the whole passage is to establish the genealogy of Christ. It has nothing to do with "born of God" as defined in the NT.
Can anybody else help brother BobRyan out here??
God Bless! :thumbs:
BobRyan said:
Galations 5:4 has nothing to do with losing ones salvation. Paul is telling the Galations that they have been made free from the law but were going back "under the yoke of bondage", that being the law.
"Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?" Gal. 3:3)
"He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?" (Gal. 3:5)
They were doing one of the worst trade in deals in history. Grace for law.
They didn't need to be born again and again and ... They needed to be reminded to walk by faith.
"If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit. (Gal. 5:25)"
Pastor_Bob
Well-Known Member
Am I to understand that Adam was the son of God in the same fashion that Enos was the son of Seth, and in the same fashion that Seth was the son of Adam? Are you saying that Adam was physically born into the family of God as was all the other men listed? Or, could it be that Luke is simply recording that Adam was physically created by God and that there was none before him?BobRyan said:
Luke 3:38 Which was the son of Enos, which was the son of Seth, which was the son of Adam, which was the son of God.(KJV)
Wait a minute........you want text showing? I asked for text in the OP and you won't provide any. In fact you won't even address the question of the OP but continue to divert to "created" in the physical rather than deal with the "born of God" spiritual.
You didn't do the study, did you? If you did, and you truly are a seeker of truth and a believer in keeping all passages in context, you would abandon the genalogy of Christ as an example of "born of God".
Try to answer the OP, it does have an answer. Let the Holy Spirit teach you.
God Bless! :thumbs:
Really BobRyan, many times I debate things with you and you have understandable points and I can see why you would believe the way you do, even though in error. But not understanding that Luke records the genealogy of Christ and NOT the "born-again" of Christ? Come on now!
Jump up now, shake the dust off of your garments, and let the genealogy of Christ rest where it should and let's get back to the OP. "Born of God", THE SPIRITUAL REGENERATION!
God Bless! :thumbs:
Jump up now, shake the dust off of your garments, and let the genealogy of Christ rest where it should and let's get back to the OP. "Born of God", THE SPIRITUAL REGENERATION!
God Bless! :thumbs:
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There is no such thing as "forgiveness revoked." Even after I graduated from seminary I had never heard such a term. The first time that I ever heard this term was from you on this board which leads me to believe that it is solely an SDA "theological" term or phrase. Either way it does not exist; it is not taught in the Bible. As has been demonstrated many times one cannot teach doctrine from a parable, especially when the doctrine is not supported elsewhere in the Bible. And that is clearly the case here.BobRyan said:
As Pastor Bob pointed out you are missing the real point of the parable, and inserting your own interpretation and twisted conclustion into it, to make it say what you want, that is, to read your own pre-conceived theology into this parable.
trustitl said:
GE
I am an OSAS-believer. So I support you in that respect.
But about Galatians -- I cannot accept at all Paul poses the Law against Grace in that Letter, or that Law and Grace are opposed anywhere in Scripture. Christian Faith in the Law is a believing in Jesus Christ the Word of God, the Likeness of God - God Himself The Law. So how ever in all eternity could there be a rivalry between God's revealed Law in Word of Scripture or in Word of the Person of Jesus Christ?
I say only one way: To believe in anything Christian as if the Law of Moses. We - Christians do not , for example, believe the Sabbath (or keep the Sabbath) BECAUSE the Law tells us - commands us, demands of us! No, (if) we - Christians- believe the Sabbath (e.g.) it is because of Jesus Christ - exclusively, or not at all!