Oh no! It's MODERN!

[Mexdeaf]

I didn't damn anybody for anything if I recall correctly. Thank you and Sag though for calling me a pharisee and a hypocrite because I said using the world's music to win the world was ineffective. It is obvious you two don't want to argue on the merits, but just want to get overly emotional and lash out at a percieved enemy.

Hmmm, my exact words were, "would I be wrong to label you a hypocrite..." I was posing a hypothetical question rather than statement of my belief concerning you. Whatever...

Where do you draw the line between worldly and godly, Mex?

That said, I'll refer to my prior post. Essentially we should follow Christ in our church and not expect Christ to follow us.

The "line" is not mine to draw. Your "line" and my "line" are probably completely different. Your "line" will change, as will mine.

Probably this is best answered with Scripture- Romans 14:5,6

One person esteems one day as better than another, while another esteems all days alike Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind. The one who observes the day, observes it in honor of the Lord. The one who eats, eats in honor of the Lord, since he gives thanks to God, while the one who abstains, abstains in honor of the Lord and gives thanks to God.

 

[Refreshed]

What a strange time we live in. What strange things are being accepted by those who claim to name the name of Christ, and all in the name of Christ. So many interested in serving self, and so few with the passion to give all to Christ and have Him direct our daily walk. I've said enough. Thanks for the banter Sag and Mexdeaf.

 

[Trotter]

Methods that worked 50 years ago don't interest this generation but the older folks cling to the past and refuse to embrace the present.

I have said this, argued this, screamed this for almost 20 years but very few will hear it.

"That's just not the way we do things around here."
"Things get along just fine and there's no need to change them now."
"If you bring 'em in with a hot dog, Satan'll steal 'em back with a hamburger."
"I don't care... we don't need the kind of people who would listen to that kind of noise [music]."
"The young people today don't know what they want. If they would just sit down and shut up they might learn what it is they want."
"Nope. We're not going to use any 'program' in this church."
"These pews were hand-made by the founding members of this church and they will stay here until Jesus comes back or the termites eat them to the floor."
"Any other color of carpet/drapes/hymnals would be pure sinful."
"All these young people want everything to be so personal. That's not how you do church."
"If it was good enough for the Apostle Paul, it's good enough for us."
"It's the preacher's job to get 'em saved. Our job is to invite 'em in to here the preacher."

And yes, I could go on and on and on.

Change for the sake of change is wrong and wasteful. change to try to reach the world of TODAY and not 1950 is needed and needed bad. The youth of today need personal connections, not to sit on the pew; this goes for their friendships, their families, and especially to their relationship with Jesus. Sitting back and hearing won't cut it, it has to be hands on. We are the hands and feet of Jesus, but if we aren't meeting their need they WILL find someone else who will at least try to meet it... through sex, drugs, bad relationships, rebellion, gangs, whatever.

Like it or not, we are living in a modern era of our modern world. While God's word is timeless and unchanging, it is the only thing that is. We cannot change the message of the gospel, but we can change the way we bring it to people, and how it is conveyed to them. We can no longer rely on even basic assumptions, like knowing that there is absolute truth because people don't think that there is any absolutes. We must meet the people where they are and stop expecting them to clean themselves up and make themselves presentable. God said He would make us fishers of men... we catch them and He cleans them.

 

[Revmitchell]

We must meet the people where they are and stop expecting them to clean themselves up and make themselves presentable. God said He would make us fishers of men... we catch them and He cleans them.

God does more that cleans them up He catches them not us. We present the gospel and the gospel coupled with the Holy Ghost draws them, saves them, and cleans them up.

1Co 2:1 And I, when I came to you, brothers, did not come proclaiming to you the testimony of God with lofty speech or wisdom.
1Co 2:2 For I decided to know nothing among you except Jesus Christ and him crucified.
1Co 2:3 And I was with you in weakness and in fear and much trembling,
1Co 2:4 and my speech and my message were not in plausible words of wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power,
1Co 2:5 that your faith might not rest in the wisdom of men but in the power of God.

 

[Trotter]

^^ Yep yep. Thanks for expanding my simplistic illustration, Rev. That's what I was thinking but my idioms got in the way. We are to be His vehicle for the gospel as it is His Spirit that does it all... we just have to be available.

 

[RAdam]

If people would study the ministry of Jesus Christ, who should be our example in all things anyway, they would see the error in using whatever means necessary to draw the crowds.

 

[RAdam]

We are not the hands and feet of Jesus. God doesn't need us, although sometimes He uses us.

 

[Amy.G]

We are not the hands and feet of Jesus.

Yes, we are.

Mat 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:


You're right that God doesn't need us, but He has chosen to work through us. He gave us His Spirit to empower us to do His will on earth.

For reasons that I cannot explain, God has chosen to include us in His work. What a privilege that is. How awesome it is to know that our Lord doesn't need us, but that He wants us.

 

[Johnv]

We are not the hands and feet of Jesus.

Are you serious? Of course we are.

 

[RAdam]

We are representatives of Jesus Christ. We are servants of Jesus Christ. We are supposed to let our light shine so others can see Christ in us. However, we are not the hands of feet of Jesus.

 

[Johnv]

I can only speak for me. My hands are Christ's hands. My feet are his feet. If yours aren't, that's fine.

 

[RAdam]

You just don't understand what that person was saying with that statement and thus my opposition to it. In that same post the person said that we catch men, God cleans them. The implication of their use of "we are the hands of feet of Jesus" is that, and I cannot disagree more. God catches 'em, God cleans 'em, God does His will in the army of heaven and among the inhabitants of earth and none can stay His hand or say unto Him what does thou. While I certainly hope I am being a servant of Christ, that I am showing Christ in me, etc, I am not the hands and feet of Jesus and neither are you. Jesus has His own hands and feet and does what He wants, accomplishes His will regardless of what you or I do.

 

[Mexdeaf]

What you are saying then is that the 'body of Christ' is non-existent other than in a spiritual sense. That is not Biblical.

 

[Johnv]

Like I said earlier, your hands and feet aren't, that's fine. But I can only speak for me. My hands are Christ's hands. My feet are his feet.

 

[RAdam]

The implication of that claim is, I must do things for God in order for these things to get done. That doesn't mesh with the idea of a sovereign God. There is a difference in saying that one tries to serve God and one saying he/she is God's hands and feet.

 

[Johnv]

No, it's not that I must do things for God in order for these things to get done, it's that I must do things in order to be obedient.

 

[Alive in Christ]

Mexdeaf posted...

"If there wasn't any electricity, there wouldn't be any computers in the church office so the pastor wouldn't be on the BaptistBoard getting all these evil, modern notions about using modern versions instead of the KJV.

And I could go on, but the deacons just voted to cut off the

:laugh::laugh::laugh:

 

[Trotter]

You just don't understand what that person was saying with that statement and thus my opposition to it. In that same post the person said that we catch men, God cleans them. The implication of their use of "we are the hands of feet of Jesus" is that, and I cannot disagree more. God catches 'em, God cleans 'em, God does His will in the army of heaven and among the inhabitants of earth and none can stay His hand or say unto Him what does thou. While I certainly hope I am being a servant of Christ, that I am showing Christ in me, etc, I am not the hands and feet of Jesus and neither are you. Jesus has His own hands and feet and does what He wants, accomplishes His will regardless of what you or I do.

Apparently you don't understand what I was trying to convey, either. God uses us to His own purposes. While He could just save people, God instead moves through our efforts to spread the gospel. If no one takes the initiative to go and be the hands and feet of God, very, very, very few would find God themselves. Man does not seek after God, and sinful man has closed his ears to the quiet voice of the Holy Spirit.

As for the catch and clean phrase, it is just that. Nothing anyone does saves anyone... but it is our sharing , our witness, our testimony that the Spirit utilizes to to draw others. I would never say that we save a person as this is God's work. but we are the means by which He reaches out to people.

I do not believe in the hyper-Calvinistic view that those who will be saved will be saved regardless and not try to witness and testify for Christ. I will be the hands, the feet, and the mouth for God here on this earth and will go about doing my part to fulfill the Great Commission that Jesus gave us, His church.

 

[Johnv]

I will be the hands, the feet, and the mouth for God here on this earth and will go about doing my part to fulfill the Great Commission that Jesus gave us, His church.

Amen!!!!!!!!

 

[SaggyWoman]

I would love to do away with Sunday School and do something else instead, like an evening Bible study, but that ain't gonna happen as long as I'm IFB.

Funny that you say that about Sunday School. I used to like going as a child and youth, and even some as a young adult, but when I began stepping up my game (whatever that means) I felt that my time during that hour, half hour, two hours, whatever, would be better spent in teaching children (which I did) or sleeping just a tad bit later. (huh??) I am not a morning person, and would prefer "doing something else instead" since my learning time is better well spent in the afternoon or evening.

But yay, traditions for churches are hard to break. As an adult, since after college, unless I was teaching in Sunday school, I didn't go to any class.

Small groups. One on ones. Other times of training filled my days instead. And I am a better person for it.

Modern? Heck if I know.