Thinkingstuff
Active Member
Still DHK am I right in my assessment of your reasoning?
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Oh Pagan Tree
- Thread starter antiaging
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Thinkingstuff said:
No, I am not suggesting that at all. In fact I was not even suggesting that Catholicism was associated with the origins of Christmas as some misunderstood me to be saying. I was only pointing out how the English word "Christmas" is Catholic in nature, not Christian in nature, not that it has its roots in any certain paganism. The English language is a Germanic language and compared to most others is of relatively recent origin.
Alive in Christ
New Member
DHK,
We all know that. Why cant you see that it also has nothing to with any kind of false pagan worship? Maybe it did a thousand years ago, I dont know...but it sure doesnt now.
Actually, as I mentioned in an earlier post, I havent had a christmas tree for several years.
I have a bowl of multicolored marbles with a light in the bottom that "lightens" the marbles up real pretty when I plug it in. A sister from church made it for me a few years ago and its the only christmas decoration I have.
Regarding the tree, you said...
And there is nothing biblical against it.
So what? We arent pagans and we dont worship it.
We know that. We dont pretend that it does. Its simply PRETTY. Its colorful, they look pretty, and they brighten up the room during the cold wintertime.
I did that. 26 years ago when I was born again.
We arent following the customs of the heathen. We are taking advantage of the opportunity to be thankful for Christs coming into the world.
We feel that way all through the rest of the year of course, but we just like to make big deal out of it during this time.
Did you know that it irritates a lot of athiests, pagans, and non-christians that we do it?
If we were "doing as the pagan world does", as you suggest, then why would they be upset about it?
:godisgood:
We all know that. Why cant you see that it also has nothing to with any kind of false pagan worship? Maybe it did a thousand years ago, I dont know...but it sure doesnt now.
Actually, as I mentioned in an earlier post, I havent had a christmas tree for several years.
I have a bowl of multicolored marbles with a light in the bottom that "lightens" the marbles up real pretty when I plug it in. A sister from church made it for me a few years ago and its the only christmas decoration I have.
Regarding the tree, you said...
And there is nothing biblical against it.
So what? We arent pagans and we dont worship it.
We know that. We dont pretend that it does. Its simply PRETTY. Its colorful, they look pretty, and they brighten up the room during the cold wintertime.
I did that. 26 years ago when I was born again.
We arent following the customs of the heathen. We are taking advantage of the opportunity to be thankful for Christs coming into the world.
We feel that way all through the rest of the year of course, but we just like to make big deal out of it during this time.
Did you know that it irritates a lot of athiests, pagans, and non-christians that we do it?
If we were "doing as the pagan world does", as you suggest, then why would they be upset about it?
:godisgood:
Who here uses the days of the week's names?
Who here wears a wedding ring?
Who here was or married a bride wearing white and a veil?
Well, you've done something based in paganism. Did you do it knowing it was pagan? Did you do it to follow the pagan practices? Or did you do it based on tradition and preference?
Jeepers people! God does not tell us to not use a tree in our celebrations. He doesn't tell us to not to celebrate His birth. Let's get over the ridiculous arguments and use this season to minister to others and bring them to the Lord. Let's also use it as a time to draw families closer together (is that a bad thing?).
If God Himself told us to not get into vain arguments and not to judge each other on the special days we hold, then why are we??
Who here wears a wedding ring?
Who here was or married a bride wearing white and a veil?
Well, you've done something based in paganism. Did you do it knowing it was pagan? Did you do it to follow the pagan practices? Or did you do it based on tradition and preference?
Jeepers people! God does not tell us to not use a tree in our celebrations. He doesn't tell us to not to celebrate His birth. Let's get over the ridiculous arguments and use this season to minister to others and bring them to the Lord. Let's also use it as a time to draw families closer together (is that a bad thing?).
If God Himself told us to not get into vain arguments and not to judge each other on the special days we hold, then why are we??
DHK said:
Christ Mass is "not Christian in nature"???? What other Christian church was there when this term was developed??
annsni said:
Way too much common sense here. Please make sure that you edit this out and get back into the spirit of useless & needless arguments over nothing.
If you want a forum where you can confine your comments strictly to evangelism then please restrict yourself to the missions/evangelism forum created for that purpose, and don't post here. There are those of us who happen to be interested in the discussion of other topics as well.sag38 said:
Do you actually believe that the "church" per se, that is God's own people, his churches, His people, those that He calls by His name, were extinguished in certain periods of history. For shame!FriendofSpurgeon said:
There has never been a period of history where God has not left himself without a witness--never! The Catholic Church and all of her godless inventions has always been protested against ever since her invention in the time of Constantine--always.
I have pointed these out already in a previous post already. The names of the week are simply names of secular days having no religious significance whatsoever. We don't worship the sun on Sunday or Thor on Thursday. We don't even think of it. They are secular not religious. But Christmas is religious--to everyone--even the atheist, as has already been pointed out. Therefore, why not worship Christ in a Biblical way, not in a worldly way. Why copy the ways of the world, do what the world does, follow the traditions of the world. There is nothing that is Christian about a tree and all the decorations that go with it. They are the ways of the world.annsni said:
James 4:4 Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God.
God doesn't take kindly to those that are "friends to this ungodly world."
He tells us to be different from the world; not to copy it. Instead Christians have such an emotional attachment to it, that they can't leave the world
NO, He tells you to come out from the world and be separate. Again he says:
1 John 2:15-16 Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him. For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.
--It is not of the Father; it is of the world. You need to get that straight.
He doesn't tell us to not to celebrate His birth. Let's get over the ridiculous arguments and use this season to minister to others and bring them to the Lord. Let's also use it as a time to draw families closer together (is that a bad thing?).
I am not against the day; I am against the worldliness in which the day is celebrated.
DHK said:
If we are to be different from the world as you are saying, then we need to do a lot more than trash our tree at Christmas time. We should not drive cars since the world does that. So how do we travel? Walk? Well, the world does that. Ride horses? Worldly. Ride bikes? Worldly.
I do not see one bit of Scripture to support getting rid of any of our traditions at Christmas. To say that we are to do things differently than the world either carries over to every part of our lives or it doesn't mean a thing. We worship the Lord in a church building, with a PA system, with a band or with an organ - or even with just voices (the pagans LOVE to use just their voices). We sit in chairs, we shake hands - EVERYTHING we do is similar to the world. Do you think if we trash our tree that we increase our testimony to the Lord to the world? Do you think that if we trash our tree, we are better followers of Christ?
A Christmas tree is not pagan in origin. It is from Old Germany and was decorated for Christmas. I do not worship Satan with my tree. I do all to the glory of God. Just as I decorate my home with homey things, I decorate my home with a Christmas tree. It is just a tradition. Nothing more. We also have a tradition of eating a casserole on Christmas morning - that is worldly I'm sure. But I'm still going to do it because it is our tradition and building roots for my family are important - not because the world does it.
I think people have way too much to argue about when they want to argue about a large piece of plastic in my living room.
Baal worship had pagan roots a thousand years or more also. Do you also want to imitate that? Again, Demonstrate what relationship does a Christmas tree has to the birth of Christ other than your emotional attachment to it, and your imitation of the ways of the world?Alive in Christ said:
A step in the right direction.
There is nothing Biblical having a tree associated with the birth of Christ. Demonstrate it from the Bible. You offer no proof. It is pure worldliness--the ways of the world which God hates, and of which God says: whosoever is a friend of the world is the enemy of God. Whose side are you on?
So you don't worship it; so what? You imitate the pagans that do. That is called worldliness. That is what James calls being a friend of the world; what John calls "is not of the Father." It is therefore wrong.
Here is the emotion coming out in your statements--it is pretty, colorful, etc. So what! Those are the attractions of the world. That is how the Serpent allured Eve to take of the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. Sentimentality is not Biblical proof.
Separation (and sanctification) is not a one-time event. It is an on-going process.
Every mall has a Christmas tree; every shopping center. They are there to attract the unsaved to appeal to their emotions at this time of year. It is the way of the heathen, not the way of the saved who pretend to be celebrating the birth of Christ. If that is the way you are celebrating Christ, IMO you are a hypocrite. For I repeat again, James declares that that method of celebrating such a sacred event is simply being "an enemy of God--a friend of the world.
Read your statement carefully.
We feel. Your running your lives by your feelings, your emotions, instead of the Word of God. Your big deal of it this time of year is emotional, sentimental and a worldly and cheap imitation of the ways of the world (or pagans).
Sure I do. So does the worship of Allah, aggravate atheists. So what! But most Muslims and Jews don't mind the celebration of Christmas.
Atheists and the ACLU in general are upset about the celebration of any religion, not just Christianity. The religion of humanism taught in our public (secular) school system saw to that.
1 John 2:15-16 Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him. For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.annsni said:
Do you have any idea of the meaning of that verse. Please explain it to me. Apparently you are naive to the meaning of what it means to be "a worldly Christian."
As to the origin of "Christmas" in general, and all of its various traditions, you also seem to be unknowledgeable. All I can say is, that you search it out for yourself. I am not going to take the time here.
Your emotion blinds you to the scripture.
What does it mean when the Bible says: "Whosoever is a friend to the world is the enemy of God."
Please explain.
I never said you worshiped a tree. I said you followed the ways of the world. And you do. Find out what those verses mean and stop being so defensive and emotional. Be a bit more objective.
I am not forcing you to respond.
Alive in Christ
New Member
DHK said to Annsi...(bolding mine)
Oh oh.
When those words are spoken to a woman, things sometimes get very interesting. :laugh:
Good luck, DHK. I hope she is merciful. :thumbs:
:godisgood:
Oh oh.
When those words are spoken to a woman, things sometimes get very interesting. :laugh:
Good luck, DHK. I hope she is merciful. :thumbs:
:godisgood:
DHK said:
Oh, Trail of Blood... never mind...
Traditions can be contrary to God's will for us.
Matthew 15:2-9
2Why do thy disciples transgress the tradition of the elders? for they wash not their hands when they eat bread.
3But he answered and said unto them, Why do ye also transgress the commandment of God by your tradition?
4For God commanded, saying, Honour thy father and mother: and, He that curseth father or mother, let him die the death.
5But ye say, Whosoever shall say to his father or his mother, It is a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me;
6And honour not his father or his mother, he shall be free. Thus have ye made the commandment of God of none effect by your tradition.
7Ye hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying,
8This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.
9But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
Colosians 2;8
8Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.
Matthew 15:2-9
2Why do thy disciples transgress the tradition of the elders? for they wash not their hands when they eat bread.
3But he answered and said unto them, Why do ye also transgress the commandment of God by your tradition?
4For God commanded, saying, Honour thy father and mother: and, He that curseth father or mother, let him die the death.
5But ye say, Whosoever shall say to his father or his mother, It is a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me;
6And honour not his father or his mother, he shall be free. Thus have ye made the commandment of God of none effect by your tradition.
7Ye hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying,
8This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.
9But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
Colosians 2;8
8Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.
DHK said:
No I am not. To love the world is to put things ahead of what God told us to be about. I do not love my Christmas tree more than God. I don't even love my Christmas tree more than my neighbor.
Do you drive a car? Very worldly. Do you ever read a book? Well, pagans do too. Do you have a wedding ring on? Yeah - TOTALLY pagan.
Oh I know about the origins and I don't care. Seriously, I don't care. I do not do anything to celebrate Satan, demons, other gods or anything like that. You might want to read Romans 14 for God's feeling on telling someone that they can't celebrate a day.
No - my emotion doesn't do anything.
Who says I'm a friend of the world? One who chooses the world over God is one who has chosen to be an enemy of God. I've done no such thing.
I'm not choosing the ways of the world and I'm offended that you are judging my heart. You are choosing something that GOD DOES NOT SAY yet saying that if you don't do is this particular way (THAT GOD DOES NOT SAY), that you are following the world.
Since celebrating Christmas is not at all spoken of in Scripture, I have freedom. Since it does not go against any of Scripture, I have freedom. Romans 14 states quite clearly to not judge someone on a day that they esteem yet you clearly disobey something that IS in Scripture.
I do not place my Christmas tree, my nativity scene or anything else I own or do over Christ. If He said to stop it all now, I would. But He hasn't. If everything in my home burned up and was gone, it would not break my heart as long as my family were safe. I've given it all to the Lord and I am quite offended that you state that I follow the ways of the world. If you think putting up a stupid piece of plastic is following the world, then you've got some learning to do.