OK for a woman to baptize?

[Bob Dudley]

Sharing your faith and witnessing IS preaching. And ALL Christians are commanded to do it. Not sure where you got the idea that standing up in a building yelling at a bunch of Christians is preaching. As a matter of fact, for the first few centuries of the body of Christ there weren't any formal buildings and "church" services.

And daily in the temple, and in every house, they ceased not to teach and preach Jesus Christ. (Acts 5:42)

 

[gb93433]

Tis a far reach to call "sharing" preaching

You are absolutely right.

Sharing the gospel is a modern day American Mr. Milquetoast, make me feel good, theology.

There is not one place in scripture where witnessing is called sharing. In fact the word for witnessing is the same word as bear witness, testify, attest, affirm, and confirm.

Acts 2:45 and they began selling their property and possessions and were sharing them with all, as anyone might have need.

1Cor 9:10 Or is He speaking altogether for our sake? Yes, for our sake it was written, because the plowman ought to plow in hope, and the thresher to thresh in hope of sharing the crops.

1Cor 10:16 Is not the cup of blessing which we bless a sharing in the blood of Christ? Is not the bread which we break a sharing in the body of Christ?

Hebr 13:16 And do not neglect doing good and sharing, for with such sacrifices God is pleased.

In Acts 1:8 the word for witnesses also means martyrs.

In the Bible the word for sharing is used only among Christians. You cannot share the gospel with pagans and darkness. You can only share what you have in common.

 

[Brother Bob]

You are absolutely right.

Sharing the gospel is a modern day American Mr. Milquetoast, make me feel good, theology.

There is not one place in scripture where witnessing is called sharing. In fact the word for witnessing is the same word as bear witness, testify, attest, affirm, and confirm.

Acts 2:45 and they began selling their property and possessions and were sharing them with all, as anyone might have need.

1Cor 9:10 Or is He speaking altogether for our sake? Yes, for our sake it was written, because the plowman ought to plow in hope, and the thresher to thresh in hope of sharing the crops.

1Cor 10:16 Is not the cup of blessing which we bless a sharing in the blood of Christ? Is not the bread which we break a sharing in the body of Christ?

Hebr 13:16 And do not neglect doing good and sharing, for with such sacrifices God is pleased.

In Acts 1:8 the word for witnesses also means martyrs.

In the Bible the word for sharing is used only among Christians. You cannot share the gospel with pagans and darkness. You can only share what you have in common.

Then why did you post this? You need to get your story straight before posting, makes you look "unlearned".

I am sorry that your experience is so limited. Both my daughter and wife share their faith. I do not hear much of it but have heard some and it is great to hear women sharing their faith. None of what they have said and little of what I have said has ever been written down but it has been written in their hearts of those I have reached.

Never once in my life have I ever knocked on the door of a female college student. I assume that is true of you too. So I would expect that you have seldom ever heard a women share (preach) her faith. When people share their faith they are not simply teaching. Giving out the gospel is much more than teaching with an emphasis on history. The emphasis is on Christ not on historical facts.

I really don't believe you have the correct definition of preaching of the Gospel.

Please give a scriptural example of where a woman was sharing her faith and it was called "preaching". That would be the best way to sure up your belief.

BBob,

 

[Brother Bob]

Hence, my next question: Why are we limiting ministers to baptize? That isn't proposed in the NT.



Because I saw yours first. Fair enough?

Fair enough, and I believe you meant to ask "why are we limiting baptizing to ministers", but not sure. My reason is that is who Christ sent forth to baptize. We try to use Christ as our example.

BBob,

 

[Brother Bob]

Sharing your faith and witnessing IS preaching. And ALL Christians are commanded to do it. Not sure where you got the idea that standing up in a building yelling at a bunch of Christians is preaching. As a matter of fact, for the first few centuries of the body of Christ there weren't any formal buildings and "church" services.

And daily in the temple, and in every house, they ceased not to teach and preach Jesus Christ. (Acts 5:42)

You probably owe ever ordained preacher, that has ever been, an apology.

1Ti 5:17¶Let the elders that rule well be counted worthy of double honour, especially they who labour in the word and doctrine.


You have a great respect for "preachers", I see. You think actual preaching is just "yelling", Grrrrrreeeeeeeeaaaatttt. I can see where a great learning could come from this post. You must believe the "real" preaching comes from the women "sharing" and the ordained preacher in the stand, before a congregation of people is just "yelling". hmmmm

I think you add "preach" in with sharing your faith, to give an excuse for using women preachers. IMO

BBob,

 

[Revmitchell]

Is it OK for a woman to baptize?

Only on the second Sunday of the month.

 

[Bob Dudley]

Origianlly posted by Brother Bob
You have a great respect for "preachers", I see. You think actual preaching is just "yelling", Grrrrrreeeeeeeeaaaatttt. I can see where a great learning could come from this post. You must believe the "real" preaching comes from the women "sharing" and the ordained preacher in the stand, before a congregation of people is just "yelling". hmmmm

I have a great deal of respect for all preachers - those that show people how to have a saving knowledge of Jesus Christ and invite them to make a decision to trust in Him, and Him alone, as their only way to heaven.

I also have a lot of respect for ordained pastors that are charged with leading and training the local group of Christians (those that are preaching the gospel to everyone they can and the back slidders) to edify the body of Christ (i.e., witness through the preaching of the gospel). (Eph 4:11-12)

The job of the pastor is to train and equip the Christians (both men AND women) to preach the gospel everywhere they can.


A good example of a woman preaching would be the woman at the well:

And many of the Samaritans of that city believed on him for the saying of the woman, which testified, He told me all that ever I did. (John 4:29)​

A good example of a woman discipling a man would be Priscilla (Acts 18:26) with her husband Aquila.

 

[Brother Bob]

I have a great deal of respect for all preachers - those that show people how to have a saving knowledge of Jesus Christ and invite them to make a decision to trust in Him, and Him alone, as their only way to heaven.

I also have a lot of respect for ordained pastors that are charged with leading and training the local group of Christians (those that are preaching the gospel to everyone they can and the back slidders) to edify the body of Christ (i.e., witness through the preaching of the gospel). (Eph 4:11-12)

The job of the pastor is to train and equip the Christians (both men AND women) to preach the gospel everywhere they can.







A good example of a woman preaching would be the woman at the well:

And many of the Samaritans of that city believed on him for the saying of the woman, which testified, He told me all that ever I did. (John 4:29)​

A good example of a woman discipling a man would be Priscilla (Acts 18:26) with her husband Aquila.

You testify when you tell the church you believe the Lord has saved you. You don't preach to the church.

Priscilla was like my mother, she did the same to me. She did not preach to me. I really don't know if she said a word or not, or was it Aquila, who spoke. The women almost always remained silent and let the husband speak. At least that is the word of God.

1Ti 2:12But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.

18: And Paul after this tarried there yet a good while, and then took his leave of the brethren, and sailed thence into Syria, and with him Priscilla and Aquila; having shorn his head in Cenchrea: for he had a vow.


You are in a state of confusion, so I guess you can't see your way out. IMO

I am still waiting on their part of the written word!!

You say you respect, but your words give you away. (shouting to the congregation, I believe you said about the preachers, Pastors, Elders etc.)

BBob,

 

[gb93433]

I really don't believe you have the correct definition of preaching of the Gospel.

Your belief is wrong. Study your Bible more by doing a simple word study on the word preaching and see what context it is used in. It is not just preaching the gospel. Prwaching covers a lot of territory.

Please give a scriptural example of where a woman was sharing her faith and it was called "preaching". That would be the best way to sure up your belief.

Ever study history?

Give me an example of where the Bible talks about riding in a car. Therefore according to your hermeneutic it never existed. Did you ever walk with God?

 

[gb93433]

You probably owe ever ordained preacher, that has ever been, an apology.

Ever read what Spurgeon said about ordination?

 

[Brother Bob]

Ever read what Spurgeon said about ordination?

I guess he needed to make some statement for not being ordained himself.

I do know what scripture says though and that is what I try to go by.

Tts 1:5 ¶ For this cause left I thee in Crete, that thou shouldest set in order the things that are wanting, and ordain elders in every city, as I had appointed thee:

1Ti 4:14 Neglect not the gift that is in thee, which was given thee by prophecy, with the laying on of the hands of the presbytery.

Mat 18:18Verily I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

BBob,

 

[Brother Bob]

Your belief is wrong. Study your Bible more by doing a simple word study on the word preaching and see what context it is used in. It is not just preaching the gospel. Prwaching covers a lot of territory.


Ever study history?

Give me an example of where the Bible talks about riding in a car. Therefore according to your hermeneutic it never existed. Did you ever walk with God?

Just give me a scripture of women preaching and that will suffice for me.

A little advice, in History you can find just about anything you want to support any position you want to take. So, yes I have studied history on many subjects.

BBob,

 

[Bob Dudley]

Originally posted by Brother Bob
Just give me a scripture of women preaching and that will suffice for me.

I gave you an example - the woman at the well in John 4. In particular, John 4:29.

 

[Jerome]

I am still waiting on their part of the written word!!

This epistle was written to the Romans from Corinthus by Phebe the minister unto the Church at Cenchrea.

 

[gb93433]

Just give me a scripture of women preaching and that will suffice for me.

A little advice, in History you can find just about anything you want to support any position you want to take. So, yes I have studied history on many subjects.

Certainly if you study heretics and listen to arrogant preachers who do not study and give their congregations a big dose of SYI then yes that is true. However if you study to show yourself approved to God then that is a different story. One who studies to be approved by God is not satisfied with getting his ears tickled by what he finds palatable with but rather knowing the truth and let the politics fall where they may. That man will not be liked by any religious politician. Religious politicians like parties not men of integrity and truth.

From the International Standard Bible Encyclopedia

Preacher, preaching - ([tl,h,qo, qoheleth], “preacher” (Ecclesiastes 1:1), [rc”B;, basar], “to bring or tell good tidings” (Psalm 40:9; Isaiah 61:1), [ar;q;, qara’], “to call,” “proclaim”
(Nehemiah 6:7; Jon 3:2), [ha;yriq], qeri’ah], “cry,” “preaching” (Jon 3:2); [kh>rux, kerux], “crier,” “herald” (1 Timothy 2:7), [khru>ssw, kerusso], “to cry or proclaim as a herald” (Matthew 3:1; Romans 10:14), [eujaggelli>zw, euaggellizo], “to announce good news”
(Matthew 11:5)


<prof’-et-es> ([ha;ybin], nebhi’ah]; [profh~tiv, prophetis]): Women were not excluded from the prophetic office in the Old Testament, and were honored with the right of prophetic utterance in the New Testament. It should be noted, however, that women like Miriam (Exodus 15:20), Deborah (Judges 4:4) and Huldah (2 Kings 22:14) were not credited with the seer’s insight into the future, but were called “prophetesses” because of the poetical inspiration of their speech. Among others mentioned as having the prophetic gift we find Hannah (1 Samuel 2:1), Anna (Luke 2:36) and the four daughters of Philip (Acts 21:8,9).


A good start is with studying the history of the early church and its practices. Prophetesses were female. I don't think it is rocket science to understand that. Prophetesses and prophets spoke for God to the people. That is preaching in its most basic usage. Preaching is telling the people God's message.

The bible says that we are to go . . .

Let me just try to understand what you are saying in a practical sense. So according to your reasoning it is the right thing for you to do to go to a female dorm room to preach the gospel to a female student because that is something that only a man can do?

 

[Brother Bob]

This epistle was written to the Romans from Corinthus by Phebe the minister unto the Church at Cenchrea.

I preferr you stay with scripture and not Helmut Koester's view. I am here to discuss scripture and not what some man has come up with. Also, even to Koester's view, it was written concerning Phebe, not written by her.

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Romans 16 is a letter of recommendation, the earliest letter of recommendation for a Christian minister, and it's written for a woman, Phoebe, who is, in the beginning of the chapter, said to have been a deacon, not a deaconess -- but a deacon in the sense of a preacher, a minister, because Paul uses the same word for himself. He calls himself, in a number of instances, a deacon of the new covenant in 2 Corinthians. [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]It's the male form not even the female form that is used in Greek here. The other word that is used for Phoebe is a Greek word "prostatis." Now if you go into the general dictionary of Greek, it will say "prostatis" has two meanings: "1. president, and 2. patron." Now an Old and New Testament dictionary which is no longer in print said "prostatis" means "1. president, 2. patron, 3. helper," in parenthesis, "(only in Romans 16:1)." And that's the translation that has existed for a long time. I think it has now disappeared from The New Revised Standard Version. [/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]So, Paul writes this as a recommendation for Phoebe who is probably the president of the Christian community in Cenchreae and a deacon that is a preacher -- not a helper and a deaconess. (That's the old translation.) [/FONT]


Romans

1: I commend unto you Phebe our sister, which is a servant of the church which is at Cenchrea:
2: That ye receive her in the Lord, as becometh saints, and that ye assist her in whatsoever business she hath need of you: for she hath been a succourer of many, and of myself also.


succourer Anoun1 succorer, succourer
someone who gives help in times of need or distress or difficulty



Jer 6:16¶Thus saith the LORD, Stand ye in the ways, and see, and ask for the old paths, where [is] the good way, and walk therein, and ye shall find rest for your souls. But they said, We will not walk [therein].

BBob,

 

[Brother Bob]

Certainly if you study heretics and listen to arrogant preachers who do not study and give their congregations a big dose of SYI then yes that is true. However if you study to show yourself approved to God then that is a different story. One who studies to be approved by God is not satisfied with getting his ears tickled by what he finds palatable with but rather knowing the truth and let the politics fall where they may. That man will not be liked by any religious politician. Religious politicians like parties not men of integrity and truth.

From the International Standard Bible Encyclopedia

Preacher, preaching -([tl,h,qo, qoheleth], “preacher” (Ecclesiastes 1:1), [rc”B;, basar], “to bring or tell good tidings” (Psalm 40:9; Isaiah 61:1), [ar;q;, qara’], “to call,” “proclaim”
(Nehemiah 6:7; Jon 3:2), [ha;yriq], qeri’ah], “cry,” “preaching” (Jon 3:2); [kh>rux, kerux], “crier,” “herald” (1 Timothy 2:7), [khru>ssw, kerusso], “to cry or proclaim as a herald” (Matthew 3:1; Romans 10:14), [eujaggelli>zw, euaggellizo], “to announce good news”
(Matthew 11:5)


<prof’-et-es> ([ha;ybin], nebhi’ah]; [profh~tiv, prophetis]): Women were not excluded from the prophetic office in the Old Testament, and were honored with the right of prophetic utterance in the New Testament. It should be noted, however, that women like Miriam (Exodus 15:20), Deborah (Judges 4:4) and Huldah (2 Kings 22:14) were not credited with the seer’s insight into the future, but were called “prophetesses” because of the poetical inspiration of their speech. Among others mentioned as having the prophetic gift we find Hannah (1 Samuel 2:1), Anna (Luke 2:36) and the four daughters of Philip (Acts 21:8,9).


A good start is with studying the history of the early church and its practices. Prophetesses were female. I don't think it is rocket science to understand that. Prophetesses and prophets spoke for God to the people. That is preaching in its most basic usage. Preaching is telling the people God's message.

The bible says that we are to go . . .

Let me just try to understand what you are saying in a practical sense. So according to your reasoning it is the right thing for you to do to go to a female dorm room to preach the gospel to a female student because that is something that only a man can do?

You all hunt the world over to try and justify what you are doing. Why not do what scripture says in the first place and then you could study the Bible.

Shame that God never felt it necessary to put it in scripture so the rest of us would believe it. I preferr scripture and not a 1915 translation of Latin Bible. I suspect the Catholics would even turn it down, they do not allow ordained women priests and they use the Latin Bible as far as I know.

BBob,

 

[Brother Bob]

I gave you an example - the woman at the well in John 4. In particular, John 4:29.

testify
1 a: to make a statement based on personal knowledge or belief : bear witness [/font]b: to serve as evidence or proof

2: to express a personal conviction3: to make a solemn declaration under oath for the purpose of establishing a fact (as in a court)[/color]

Because someone tells what happened to her and some believe her, is not preaching. Happens all the time.

Still not preaching, keep trying.

BBob,

 

[Brother Bob]

Jerome:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brother Bob
I am still waiting on their part of the written word!!

This epistle was written to the Romans from Corinthus by Phebe the minister unto the Church at Cenchrea.

The International Standard Bible Encyclopedia1)

Romans 16:1

"Our (Christian) sister": Paul calls the believing husband and wife "the brother or the sister"

1 Corinthians 7:15 and also asks, "Have we no right to lead about a wife that is a sister?" (1 Corinthians 9:5 margin). The church was a family.

(2) The Greek word translated "servant" is diakonos. "Servant" is vague, and "deaconess" is too technical. In the later church there was an order of deaconesses for special work among women, owing to the peculiar circumstances of oriental life, but we have no reason to believe there was such an order at this early period. If Phoebe had voluntarily devoted herself "to minister unto the saints" by means of charity and hospitality, she would be called diakonos.

3) The Greek word prostatis translated "helper" is better "patroness." The masculine is "the title of a citizen in Athens who took charge of the interests of clients and persons without civic rights" (Denney). Many of the early Christian communities had the appearance of clients under a patron, and probably the community of Cenchrea met in the house of Phoebe. She also devoted her influence and means to the assistance of "brethren" landing at that port. Paul was among those whom she benefited. Gifford thinks some special occasion is meant, and that Paul refers to this in Acts 18:18. The vow "seems to point to a deliverance from danger or sickness" in which Phoebe may have attended on him.

It is generally assumed that this letter was taken to Rome by Phoebe, these verses introducing her to the Christian community. In commending her, Paul asks that the Roman Christians "receive her in the Lord," i.e. give her a Christian welcome, and that they "assist her in whatsoever matter she may have need" of them Romans 16:1,2

BBob,

 

[gb93433]

You all hunt the world over to try and justify what you are doing. Why not do what scripture says in the first place and then you could study the Bible.

I have find that James 1:22 works quite well. Scripture does not come first. God does. I worship the God of the Bible not the Bible.

God gave me a brain, prayer, and reason along with many gifts. So he expects me to use what he gave me. For me to drive my car to church I do not need to find it in scripture. For me to turn on my air conditioner I do not need to ask God if I should turn it on when it gets hot and humid. There are many things the early church did which are recorded just not in the Bible. There are many things Jesus did which are not recorded in the Bible.
If you ever read your Bible once you would quickly learn that there were many things that Jesus did which were not recorded in scripture. So according to your reasoning because those things are not recorded they do not exist and God’s word found to be a lie. Such heresy you teach!

Shame that God never felt it necessary to put it in scripture so the rest of us would believe it. I preferr scripture and not a 1915 translation of Latin Bible. I suspect the Catholics would even turn it down, they do not allow ordained women priests and they use the Latin Bible as far as I know.

Where did you ever get the idea of a 1915 translation of a Latin Bible? I cannot follow that one?

If you would prefer to deal with the Greek and Hebrew text I would like that much better. It would be much easier because ordination as we know it does not exist in the Greek text.

Ordination is not a problem with me because it is worthless concoction by man. Over the years pedophiles have been ordained. What in the world can man do to prepare a man for ministry that God has not already done? The answer is nothing. There are too many “ordained” denominational leaders who are nothing more than political machines living in their arrogance and extravagance instead of humility before God while calling themselves Christians. I have been around enough of them to easily vomit.
Can you give at least one example of ordination from the Greek text (and not your KJV Church of England translation which supports a hierarchy and pedobaptism)?
You really do need to get rid of any deacons who are laity too, because the RCC and COE would not agree with that.
[FONT=&quot]
Earlier in another posting I just asked you for a simple answer to a simple question. Why did you not answer it with a yes or no? The question was,
Let me just try to understand what you are saying in a practical sense. So according to your reasoning it is the right thing for you to do to go to a female dorm room to preach the gospel to a female student because that is something that only a man can do? [/FONT]