OK for a woman to baptize?

[Brother Bob]

I have find that James 1:22 works quite well. Scripture does not come first. God does. I worship the God of the Bible not the Bible.

God gave me a brain, prayer, and reason along with many gifts. So he expects me to use what he gave me. For me to drive my car to church I do not need to find it in scripture. For me to turn on my air conditioner I do not need to ask God if I should turn it on when it gets hot and humid. There are many things the early church did which are recorded just not in the Bible. There are many things Jesus did which are not recorded in the Bible.
If you ever read your Bible once you would quickly learn that there were many things that Jesus did which were not recorded in scripture. So according to your reasoning because those things are not recorded they do not exist and God’s word found to be a lie. Such heresy you teach!


Where did you ever get the idea of a 1915 translation of a Latin Bible? I cannot follow that one?

If you would prefer to deal with the Greek and Hebrew text I would like that much better. It would be much easier because ordination as we know it does not exist in the Greek text.

Ordination is not a problem with me because it is worthless concoction by man. Over the years pedophiles have been ordained. What in the world can man do to prepare a man for ministry that God has not already done? The answer is nothing. There are too many “ordained” denominational leaders who are nothing more than political machines living in their arrogance and extravagance instead of humility before God while calling themselves Christians. I have been around enough of them to easily vomit.
Can you give at least one example of ordination from the Greek text (and not your KJV Church of England translation which supports a hierarchy and pedobaptism)?
You really do need to get rid of any deacons who are laity too, because the RCC and COE would not agree with that.
[FONT=&quot]
Earlier in another posting I just asked you for a simple answer to a simple question. Why did you not answer it with a yes or no? The question was,
Let me just try to understand what you are saying in a practical sense. So according to your reasoning it is the right thing for you to do to go to a female dorm room to preach the gospel to a female student because that is something that only a man can do? [/FONT]

You speak with arrogance. Jesus was our example and the Apostles. They met in homes in the 1st and 2nd century, to preach the word.

If you are going to throw out what you don't like, what is the use discussing anything with you. If you are a Baptist, you are like one I have never known. I do not have a command to go into women's dorms, maybe you do.

Lets see, you don't believe in ordaination, you say it is worthless, when Paul said to ordain elders in every city.

You believe in women preachers, when scripture says for the women to be silent and not to teach. They are only allowed to help an authority, such as a man.

You don't believe in the KJV, but you do believe in a later translation.

What do you believe in? Anything. except yourself.

You defy the word;

Tts 1:5¶For this cause left I thee in Crete, that thou shouldest set in order the things that are wanting, and ordain elders in every city, as I had appointed thee:

You speak blasphemy against the word of God.

Jhn 6:63It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, [they] are spirit, and [they] are life.

Jhn 12:48He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

BBob,

 

[Cutter]

You speak with arrogance. Jesus was our example and the Apostles. They met in homes in the 1st and 2nd century, to preach the word.

If you are going to throw out what you don't like, what is the use discussing anything with you. If you are a Baptist, you are like one I have never known. I do not have a command to go into women's dorms, maybe you do.

Lets see, you don't believe in ordination, you say it is worthless, when Paul said to ordain elders in every city.

You believe in women preachers, when scripture says for the women to be silent and not to teach. They are only allowed to help an authority, such as a man.

You don't believe in the KJV, but you do believe in a later translation.

What do you believe in? Anything. except yourself.

You defy the word;


You speak blasphemy against the word of God.

Amen! It may be time to shake your feet on this one.
1 Corinthians 14:38 But if any man be ignorant, let him be ignorant.

 

[Brother Bob]

Amen! It may be time to shake your feet on this one.
1 Corinthians 14:38 But if any man be ignorant, let him be ignorant.

I think you might be right Cutter, thanks.

BBob,

 

[tinytim]

Ok, I haven't weighed in on this.... uh...hmmmm.... but here is my opinion...

Since Baptism was given to the church, only the church has the authority to Baptize...

The church can vote to allow anyone she wants to represent her in the waters of Baptism. Most of the time the ordained pastor or deacons automatically are chosen, but I have seen times that the church approves other people...

For instance a member that leads a person to Christ.
Or another member because the church was without a pastor.
Or in my case, before I was called to preach, I was allowed to help baptize my oldest son.

Now, since a church has this right, it also has the right to choose a woman to help. Just as a church has the right to choose a woman to pastor them... it is the church's right under the principle that a church is autonomous...

 

[Brother Bob]

Ok, I haven't weighed in on this.... uh...hmmmm.... but here is my opinion...

Since Baptism was given to the church, only the church has the authority to Baptize...

The church can vote to allow anyone she wants to represent her in the waters of Baptism. Most of the time the ordained pastor or deacons automatically are chosen, but I have seen times that the church approves other people...

For instance a member that leads a person to Christ.
Or another member because the church was without a pastor.
Or in my case, before I was called to preach, I was allowed to help baptize my oldest son.

Now, since a church has this right, it also has the right to choose a woman to help. Just as a church has the right to choose a woman to pastor them... it is the church's right under the principle that a church is autonomous...

That is not for me!

BBob,

 

[tinytim]

That's fine Bob, that is why it is great to be a Baptist....

 

[EdSutton]

No. Just registering my vote as I know that if you want a woman to do something you will find a way to justify it and no amount of Scripture or Church History will change anyone's mind. It is all part of the effeminization of the church.

Just thought I'd say congratulations on the resurrecting of a 10 mo. dead thread.

Now we can all see it be 'baptized into death', since it has now hit 30 pages.

Ed

 

[EdSutton]

1. Women were disciples (Matt. 12:46-50).
2. Apollos, a man described as mighty in the Scriptures; he was taught a more accurate truth by a women --with her husband (Acts 18:24-28).
3. Phoebe was a deacon (diakonos) in the church (Romans 16:1).
4. There were woman prophets (Acts 21:8-9).
5. Women prayed and prophesied in the church (1 Corinthians 11:4-5).
6. There is some question about a woman apostle, Junia/Junias may have been a woman (Romans 16:1).

Women in the New Testament: A Middle Eastern Cultural View [LINK]
by Kenneth E. Bailey

Rob

The very nerve that one would give a listing of Scriptures among Baptists! :laugh: :laugh:

Ed

 

[EdSutton]

The preaching of the Gospel is just for the men. Unless some sister is the husband of one wife. In today's world, that could be so, I guess.....

I simply believe that "baptizing" is a part of the ministry of the preacher.

I should of used the following scripture.

Mar 16:15And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.

BBob,

You shouldda' quoted Mk. 16:16, as well, for the context of Mk. 16:15, as that is a good "Baptist" verse.

16 He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned. (Mk. 16:16 - NKJV)

One can also make the argument that the Great Commission was only given to those actually present. That is true in one sense, but I think it completely overlooks the intention. BTW, I do not believe the church was yet in existence, at the time the Great Comission was actually given, but the repeating of this, essentially, in Acts 1 and following shows that this was the intention, IMO.

BTW, to my knowledge, there is no Scripture anywhere that says "The preaching of the Gospel is just for the men."

'Preaching' in the church assembly, to believers, does not necessarily equal "preaching the Gospel" and Scripture does mention these things.

8 On the next day we who were Paul’s companions[a] departed and came to Caesarea, and entered the house of Philip the evangelist, who was one of the seven, and stayed with him. 9 Now this man had four virgin daughters who prophesied. (Ac. 21:8-9 - NKJV)
2 Now I praise you, brethren, that you remember me in all things and keep the traditions just as I delivered them to you. 3 But I want you to know that the head of every man is Christ, the head of woman is man, and the head of Christ is God. 4 Every man praying or prophesying, having his head covered, dishonors his head. 5 But every woman who prays or prophesies with her head uncovered dishonors her head, for that is one and the same as if her head were shaved. (I Cor. 11:2-5 - NKJV)

What exactly is prophesying? Is it not 'proclaiming' or 'preaching'? (FTR, I have heard many say that 'prophesying' is mainly "forthtelling", as opposed to "foretelling" in the NT. I do not entirely agree with this, but so far that hasn't stopped anyone from saying it, including on the BB.)

And why in the contexts of these two passages, would one consider that somehow 'the man' was doing this 'publicly' and 'the women' were doing this 'privately'? This imposed distinction is 'eisegesis', not 'exegesis' of Scripture.

Paul and his party were present in the first instance; Paul is giving instruction to the church, in the second. Neither of these two passages, in any way, impugn on the 'authority' question, of men as 'elders', at least as I see it.

Ed

 

[EdSutton]

It is infinitely more important to get saved than it is to get baptized.

Exactly!

10 Now I plead with you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you, but that you be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment. 11 For it has been declared to me concerning you, my brethren, by those of Chloe’s household, that there are contentions among you. 12 Now I say this, that each of you says, “I am of Paul,” or “I am of Apollos,” or “I am of Cephas,” or “I am of Christ.” 13 Is Christ divided? Was Paul crucified for you? Or were you baptized in the name of Paul?
14 I thank God that I baptized none of you except Crispus and Gaius, 15 lest anyone should say that I had baptized in my own name. 16 Yes, I also baptized the household of Stephanas. Besides, I do not know whether I baptized any other. 17 For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel, not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of no effect.Christ the Power and Wisdom of God


18 For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. (I Cor. 1:10-18 - NKJV)

The Gospel ain't the message of baptism, folks! It's definition is found in I Cor. 15!

1 Moreover, brethren, I declare to you the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received and in which you stand, 2 by which also you are saved, if you hold fast that word which I preached to you—unless you believed in vain.
3 For I delivered to you first of all that which I also received: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, 4 and that He was buried, and that He rose again the third day according to the Scriptures, 5 and that He was seen by Cephas, then by the twelve. 6 After that He was seen by over five hundred brethren at once, of whom the greater part remain to the present, but some have fallen asleep. 7 After that He was seen by James, then by all the apostles. 8 Then last of all He was seen by me also, as by one born out of due time. (I Cor. 15:1-8 - NKJV)

Ed

 

[EdSutton]

I believe there is "one" church. There are local churches which are a part of the "one" church. Not everything that calls itself a church, is a part of the "one" church.


Act 2:47Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.


Col 1:18And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all [things] he might have the preeminence.

We fully agree, here, because that is what the Scripture says. Other Scriptures support this, as well. (Rom. 12:12-13; I Cor. 10:17; 12:12-13; etc.) The Lord Jesus Christ is not a many million bodied monstrosity, like a reverse "Hydra" of Greek mythology, which had many heads. The church in its local manifestation mirrors (or at least should mirror) the one 'true' Body of Christ.

I believe the "church" goes back much farther than many believe.

Act 7:38This is he, that was in the church in the wilderness with the angel which spake to him in the mount Sina, and [with] our fathers: who received the lively oracles to give unto us:

BBob,

While there is, in a sense, the principle, Israel, as the church (, KJV, ASV; assembly - YLT, DARBY, NLT, NIV; or congregation - NKJV, NASB, HCSB) in the wilderness, there is no corresponding sense that this was composed of only believers and was at all, a part of the Body of Christ, which we are talking about, here. The OT saints, under all five of the dispensations and covenants which covered that time (Innocence - Edenic Covenant; Conscience - Adamic C.; Human Government or Patriarchal - Noahic C.; Promise - Abrahamic C., and Law - Mosaic or Sinaictic C.) were all saved by faith in God, based on the blood of the Lamb, that would be shed, just as we are saved by faith in God, based on the blood of the Lamb that has already been shed. (Rom. 4) But not one of them ever 'had the Holy Spirit', as you or I do, as an indwelling presence, nor did any have the gifts, earnest, or were baptized in the Holy Spirit, but were still "just as saved" as any of us are. Those were particulars and blessings reserved for the church, and the church, alone - the body of Christ.

The two most righteous individuals who ever lived, namely Abel and Lot, the only two individuals called righteous or just three times each, in Scripture;
the two who are said to ahve "walked with God", namely Enoch and Noah;
Abraham, the friend of God;
David, the man after God's own heart;
Elijah, who was translated that he should not see death;
even John the Baptist, the one of whom it was dsaid that there was not one greater born of women; not one of of them ever had anything close to what you and I have, today, except for eternal salvation.

I wouldn't give what God gave undeserving me, for what any of them had! :thumbs:

(Although the translation of Elijah and Enoch could be tempting, I admit.)

How about you? Would you want to swap places with them? They sure would with you and me.

Ed

 

[Cutter]

The two most righteous individuals who ever lived, namely Abel and Lot, the only two individuals called righteous or just three times each, in Scripture;
the two who are said to have "walked with God", namely Enoch and Noah;
Abraham, the friend of God;
David, the man after God's own heart;
Elijah, who was translated that he should not see death;
even John the Baptist, the one of whom it was dsaid that there was not one greater born of women; not one of of them ever had anything close to what you and I have, today, except for eternal salvation.


Ed

Ezekiel 14:14 Though these three men, Noah, Daniel, and Job, were in it, they should deliver [but] their own souls by their righteousness, saith the Lord GOD.
I do not agree with your statement that "Abel and Lot were the two most righteous individuals that ever lived."

 

[EdSutton]

Darby Bible Translation
The Lord gives the word: great the host of the publishers.

Only American translations says what you posted as far as I can find out.

BBob,

Ya' might wanna' look a little further.

11The Lord doth give the saying, The female proclaimers [are] a numerous host. (Ps. 68:11 - YLT)

11The Lord gives(A) the word;
(B) the women who announce the news are a great host: (Ps. 68:11 - ESV)

11 The Lord giveth the word: The women that publish the tidings are a great host. (Ps. 68:11 - RV)

None of these above are "American translations".

All the Spanish Bibles I checked on, starting with the 1553 Ferrara Old Testament, have the feminine tense. Even the English Geneva Bible, recognized as being based on the Textus Receptus, added “women” to provide the verse in a feminine tense. Respected commentators such as Albert Barnes agree that in Hebrew the key word in Ps. 68:11 is in a feminine tense: “More literally, ‘The women publishing it were a great host.’ The word used is in the feminine gender.” The Spanish Bible has simply been translating this passage over the centuries in a strict literal sense. Why is it suddenly wrong 400+ years later?

http://en.literaturabautista.com/node/39

Good question, I'd say.

Ed

 

[EdSutton]

Men publish the Gospel, and both men and women spread the glad tidings. Me and my wife and brothers and sisters in the church rejoice all week over the service we had last Sunday.

Can you give some of the preaching of the women??? What about some "written word"??

I hear sisters praising God all the time. During service too, they lift their voices to sing praises and glorify Him. What I don't hear is sisters "preaching the Gospel".


BBob,

Does the 'Magnificat' of Mary, or the "Song of Miriam", or the pronouncements and "Song of Deborah" count as preaching or "written word"? They are all found in my Bible.

Ed

 

[tinytim]

Since the church has been given the authority to Baptize...

And ...

since the church is referred to as a lady in the NT....

It stands to reason that a "woman' can Baptize...

OK>. bad exegesis!! lol

 

[EdSutton]

Ezekiel 14:14 Though these three men, Noah, Daniel, and Job, were in it, they should deliver [but] their own souls by their righteousness, saith the Lord GOD.
I do not agree with your statement that "Abel and Lot were the two most righteous individuals that ever lived."

I'd say your disagreement is with Scripture, not me, for these two individuals, as I said, are the only two to be specifically called righteous or just three times. (Mt. 23:35; Heb. 11:4; II Pet. 2:7-9) There is one other reference, I believe to Abel, in this, but I do not have the time to go back and study it out, and cannot recall it off the top of my head. (Maybe someone else can help out here, on this verse.) You might also notice that Lot is the only individual in Scripture specifically named also as being among "the godly" (II Pet. 2:9) that I have found.

I do not believe any other individual is ever referred to as "righteous" or "just" more than one time, except the Lord Jesus Christ, apart from Abel and Lot. I'd say God had a reason for this designation, wouldn't you?

Ed

 

[EdSutton]

Sharing your faith and witnessing IS preaching. And ALL Christians are commanded to do it. Not sure where you got the idea that standing up in a building yelling at a bunch of Christians is preaching. As a matter of fact, for the first few centuries of the body of Christ there weren't any formal buildings and "church" services.

And daily in the temple, and in every house, they ceased not to teach and preach Jesus Christ. (Acts 5:42)

You probably owe ever ordained preacher, that has ever been, an apology.

1Ti 5:17¶Let the elders that rule well be counted worthy of double honour, especially they who labour in the word and doctrine.


You have a great respect for "preachers", I see. You think actual preaching is just "yelling", Grrrrrreeeeeeeeaaaatttt. I can see where a great learning could come from this post. You must believe the "real" preaching comes from the women "sharing" and the ordained preacher in the stand, before a congregation of people is just "yelling". hmmmm

I think you add "preach" in with sharing your faith, to give an excuse for using women preachers. IMO

BBob,

For both of you, where does Scripture ever say one has 'to yell', in order 'to preach'?

Ed

 

[EdSutton]

Is it OK for a woman to baptize?

Only on the second Sunday of the month.

[FONT=verdana,sans-serif]

Now that was funny! :thumbs:

Ed
[/FONT]

 

[EdSutton]

You testify when you tell the church you believe the Lord has saved you. You don't preach to the church.

Priscilla was like my mother, she did the same to me. She did not preach to me. I really don't know if she said a word or not, or was it Aquila, who spoke. The women almost always remained silent and let the husband speak. At least that is the word of God.

1Ti 2:12But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.

18: And Paul after this tarried there yet a good while, and then took his leave of the brethren, and sailed thence into Syria, and with him Priscilla and Aquila; having shorn his head in Cenchrea: for he had a vow.


You are in a state of confusion, so I guess you can't see your way out. IMO

I am still waiting on their part of the written word!!

You say you respect, but your words give you away. (shouting to the congregation, I believe you said about the preachers, Pastors, Elders etc.)

BBob,

FTR, Paul was the one with the "shaved head", here, not Aquila.

Ed

 

[EdSutton]

I gave you an example - the woman at the well in John 4. In particular, John 4:29.

The gent do got a point with Jo. 4:29.

Ed